Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

[ofonorow]

The answer is that my blood sugar rose.

This shouldn't happen at 4 mg. If I take 4, the adrenals should only produce around 4. The total cortisol must have been more than 8-10 (in prednizone units) for the sugar to rise above 400 again.

. . .

But why then doesn't anyone under stress reach 400 mg/dl blood sugar. Appreciate your post and thoughts.

Wait, your blood sugar rose to 400 mg/dl when you increased your dose again, after going down to 1 mg?
I'm not clear about whether it happened at a dose of 4 mg before you tried to reduce it, but I am just
beginning to learn about adrenal fatigue (and suspect I might have it).

I will try to explain.

I have been taking 4 mg methyl prednisolone daily for about a year. Started a 8 mg, but was able to lower it to 4 mg. 2 mg upon waking and another 2 mg in the afternoon.

If I forget a dose - I feel it. Inflammation in joints, so I am pretty rigorous. I also make a record in a journal.

Sugar had been elevated about a year ago - I blame a too high dose of hydrocortisone. Took a while, but eventually my fasting sugar lowered and seemed to stabilize at 120 mg/dl. On 4 mg m. pred.

So during this discussion, about a week ago, I noticed excessive thirst !? Took my sugar - several hours after a meal, but it was 450 mg/ld!


So weirdly my blood sugar is again out of control. At that point, I lowered my intake of cortisol (methyl prednisolone) to 2 mg. 1 mg twice a day. When I try to reduce to 1 mg - I get the prickly inflammation I described.

But I do know a little about diabetes, as I have it. 400 mg/dl is really bad! I would go talk
to your doctor about it! Wow !

Sounds like this situation is complicated and needs some discussion with your real doctor, in person.

Just my opinion!

It is interesting, my doc wasn't too concerned. Says that most "bad things" that happen to diabetics are caused by the sugar substitute, esp. Apartame. Told me stories of patients healthy with high blood sugar for extended periods. But yes, I'd like to get back to around 100 mg/dl!

Now I wonder if this might be insulin related - due to the missing part of pancreas?

But I do agree with your opinion that "it is so simple, it cannot be accepted" by the medical profession.

I know you like that book you recommend, but I'm going to start with Dr. Wilson's book:
"Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome."

I found out about the Jefferies Book from the Wilson book, but they are like night and day. There is no comparison. The important knowledge is contained in the Jefferies book SAFE USES OF CORTISOL. Knowledge I wish every doctor had.

And it was interesting all the things that can be "fixed" by taking cortisol (from Johnwen's link)!

If the same things were related to vitamin C, not taking enough, we'd consider them indicators of vitamin C deficiency. (and some are)

So why aren't all those conditions, treatable with cortisol, indicators of a cortisol deficiency!!

[kohlrabicroce]

Owen, thanks for explaining. If I may give my two cents: if your doctor tries to get you on diabetic meds,
first try to eat a low carb diet and see if that will control your blood sugar. But do test your blood glucose
a lot, and Johnwen's suggestion to do an A1C test was good.

The low carb diet option is not one that everybody will go for, but it works out better than the usual
high carb diet plus meds. If that does not do it, go for the meds in addition to the low carb diet. That is,
if it turns out you do have a consistent problem. If not for eating a low carb diet, I would certainly be on
meds.

As for your doctor's statement that he "Says that most "bad things" that happen to diabetics are caused
by the sugar substitute, esp. Aspartame," Wow, I never heard that one. That is *so* wrong.
Most bad things that happen to diabetics are because of uncontrolled blood sugar.
And I would add increased problems with oxidation.

I disagree that living with high blood sugar for long periods of time is just fine, even
despite your doctor's anecdotal stories. If I may recommend a book:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0054U581W

Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution: The Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars

He's more in favor of eating low carb, and using less meds as a result. He's been
diabetic practically all his life, and is still going strong. But there's a lot more in there.

Er, you might want to go an endocrinologist with your blood sugar problems.

Hope that helps!

[ofonorow]

[Johnwen]

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

Again, I may have missed a post - but tried to split the digression off cortisol into another topic.

Johnwen, you are right - I missed seeing "rheumatic disorders" - because that list is so long!

And doesn't that list make you pause?

I tried to outline the errors in the report, in my opinion, because they are subtle, such as not emphasizing that the primary function of cortisol is its anti-imflammatory property. Or the wrong idea that safe dosage of cortisol impairs immune function. (Again, why have I not had any infection since I started cortisol supplementation?)

First, today my fasting sugar was 210. (Down from around 270 a few days ago) and I am now on 1 mg methyl prednisolone without pain.. My conclusion is that my adrenals can now make my daily requirement, or nearly, around 8 mg (in prednisone units). Yea!

But the point I have been trying to make is that if there is ANY pain in the body, there isn't enough cortisol to suppress it.

I am now convinced (from my own experience) that PAIN is a signal to the brain to secrete more cortisol (as are perhaps other stressors).

In people, especially over age 50, whose adrenal glands cannot keep up, or have been burned out, and cannot meet the request, the result of sub optimal secretion of cortisol is chronic pain. Also, perhaps one or more of all those conditions listed that are treated by cortisol in your link result!

Now, anecdotally, I know that doctors who treat those conditions use the wrong (too high) dosages, so naturally, the literature will be full of reports of "adverse reactions" to this high cortisol. I have three neighbors with conditions that were prescribed cortisol - two by infectious disease doctors - and all dosages were more than 10 mg prednisone. Doctors should be trained in the knowledge in William Mck Jefferies SAFE USES OF CORTISOL.

I don't fault you johnwen, you are a product of your training. I am trying to be an unbiased observer, that happens to have had the condition of almost no cortisol output - and lived! (I lived from a combination of regular IV/C along with a methyl prednisolone med pak!. The zero cortisol output probably resulted from the strong steroid IV I was given just before leaving the hospital.)

I just find it interesting, and sad, that forces promoting sickness have been able to influence the entire medical profession that cortisol is always dangerous. And that attitude, just happens to create and sustain a lot of unnecessary pain.

[Johnwen]

[tjohnson_nb]

In the ensuing six years I have learned that there are at least two ways
in which C encompasses the relief of arthritic (or any inflamma-
tory) pain: (1) By competitively inhibiting the enzyme phosphodi-
esterase, it protects the cyclonucleotide cyclic AMP and thus makes
more of the latter available to mediate the production of cortisone -
- which, being home-made, does not have the undesireable side
effects of the synthetic steroids; and (2) by maximizing the conver-
sion of dietary linoleic acid into steroids; and (2) by maximizing
the conversion of dietary linoleic acid into PGE-2, which among
other things governs the inflammatory process.

Found this here http://www.arthritistrust.org/Articles/Vitamin%20C%20How%20to%20Use%20the%20Great%20Missing%20Vitamin.pdf

It almost sounds as if Vit C can help in the production of cortisone? Elsewhere I have read that it can lower cortisone levels after stressful situations.

[ofonorow]

Both would be good.

Not wanting to argue, just reporting. This just might be a coincidence ....

Yesterday, urination became a little difficult, soreness. Like a bladder infection, so I began a 5 Lypo-C protocol w/cranberry juice.

Yesterday afternoon a dull headache started, something like a caffeine withdrawal headache, and then last night, it got worse, pain in the back of neck that traveled down my back!

Reminiscent, if not exactly, the first symptoms which preceded my two ER and long hospital stays! http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9194

Fingers and knuckles are not sore!

A virus? And why now? I have been feeling good, no illness for the better part of a year while on the 4 mg cortisol.

A few days ago, I go down to 1 mg - and yesterday I start to experience deja vu all over again.

I cannot risk fluid build up around the heart again, so I am going to increase back up to 3 mg cortisol and see what happens. See if I can balance the elevated sugar and these symptoms.

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

Thanks johnwen. My m. p. tablets are 4 mg - with 2 lines, so they can easily be cut in half - to 2 mg, and then in half again - 1 mg.

I am now one-half pill (2 mg) when I wake up, and then 1 mg in the early afternoon. Symptoms have subsided, resolved.

Another question.

Fasting blood sugar. we know cortisol raises blood sugar, but why is it low during the night, and what keeps our blood sugar up while sleeping? We don't eat while sleeping, yet our fasting blood sugar is sustained.

Yet, cortisol rises during the day, then drops off and is presumably low during sleep , and melatonin apparently takes over during sleep.

So if cortisol levels are low at night, how is blood sugar maintained? A guess would be a delayed effect in the liver?

[ofonorow]

report.

3 mg basically the same as 4 mg cortisol (methyl prednisolone).

I got curious and for the past couple of says, I lowered the dosage down to 2 mg (1 mg a.m 1 mg afternoon).

So far so good. I can tell it is borderline.

Fasting sugar is under 200.

Still curious what controls blood sugar release from liver during sleep.


Edit - added... All is not perfect at 2 mgs... My cheek lymph nodes are swollen, bottom of jaw, near neck,making it difficult to chew (like lockjaw).. I had cut down from 5 Lypo-C to 2, going back up to 5.

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

Yes, but now I have to think about it. Are you saying that glucocortocoids work on blood sugar in at least two ways - counteracting insulin (like insulin resistance) and also by helping release glucose from the liver?

Back to my own cortisol experiment, as I am becoming somewhat of an expert on my own dosages.

For the record.

I have been on 2 mg (1 mg a.m and 1 mg early p.m.) for several days without any outright pain. (I suspect that dropping from 4 mg directly to 1 mg was too much, and it took a while for my own adrenals to adjust to the higher output. Thus Dr. Pincus's advice to drop by 1 mg, over time, and see the results before dropping an additional mg.)

But I have muscle weakness. Hard to lift my arms, and some dizziness in the a.m. Since there is no pain, I could live like this and not be angry all the time at organized medicine!

In summary, started this process at 8 mg.

About a year ago, cut down to 4 mg after the first high-blood sugar episode.

Felt very well, no sickness on 2 mg a.m., 2 mg early p.m., until last month when I experience the second high-blood sugar episode.

Cut down to 1 mg - and started to reexperience the symptoms that led to the two week-long hospitalizations, starting with an infection, then headache, neck and back pain.

Going up to 3 mg - brought me to near normal..

dropping to 2 mg - to see what happens, is where I am now. No outright pain, no feeling of infection at the moment, but generalized muscle weakness and dizziness.

Hope to have the hormone panel when I speak soon with my "cortisol" doc - haven't received the saliva test that I thought I ordered...

[Johnwen]

Little short on time right now so I'll be breif!

dropping to 2 mg - to see what happens, is where I am now. No outright pain, no feeling of infection at the moment, but generalized muscle weakness and dizziness.

What is your sugar levels at this dose??

When I get a little more time I'll go into detail about what the body does when insulin is suppressed and it needs sugar. UGH!