Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#31  Post by kohlrabicroce » Thu May 16, 2013 8:40 am

Johnwen wrote:
I am also trying to make the point that cortisol's primary function is in reducing pain, by reducing inflammation. I have not read, but I think I have discovered that without cortisol, tissues inflame, so low levels of cortisol creates pain and inflammation, which has been called autoimmune diseases and/or disorders. The body apparently attacking itself for no reason.




I believe I see where the confusion is coming from I’ll try to explain it as best I can. I’ll see if I can find some links that will further the explanation.

Ok first you must understand that there is two basic types of cortisol floating around inside the body. They are “BOUND,” and “FREE,” (or unbound) The bounded portion makes up about 90% of the total cortisol. About 75% of the bound is attached to Transcortin which is also known as CBG (Cortisol Binding Globulin) the remainder is bound to albumin. This is the necessary form of cortisol in that it is taken into the cells as food and aids in the production of energy. It is also the form that attacks the inflammation process. The CBG is released from the liver and circulates and attaches to the cortisol.

The other form is the FREE unbounded type. Which is the one that the body uses in stressful situations and the one that helps keep us awake during the day. Down at the cellular level it has one job and that is to drive out potassium and intake calcium into the cell, creating a hypertonic state. Which basically means it tenses the cell. In muscle cells this means you now have the power to run away from whatever is stressing the body.

When the body is relaxed the levels of CBG elevate binding higher amounts of cortisol. While under continued stress CBG is lowered and more free cortisol is made available.
This all usually works well. Now lets see what happens when we add an external source. During the day cortisol is released in highs and lows depending on the body’s needs these are bound and some free to meet its needs, it figures to about 11mg over a 24 hour period. Now you add 4mg at ONE POINT and the free fraction now goes through the roof and starts going directly to the cells the liver jumps into action and starts pumping out transcortin. The cells that had damage and are inflamed tense up and drive out the inflammation markers muscles go tight. However there is no crisis however the adrenals kick out high levels of EPI and any pain that was present is masked. The body knowing it needs to get these levels back under control, releases fluid reserves and the kidneys kick into high gear the liver begins to open up CBG receptors and starts pushing them out to the gall bladder for removal. As the levels of free cortisol begin to wane the CBG still remains high and the adrenals have shut down production of cortisol. Any cortisol that is free now becomes bound and levels of free are lacking so the pituitary glands signal the adrenals to start production but due to the imbalance of CBG in the system all production is bound and signals go to that adrenals to produce more cortisol which then starts to rise the liver’s production of Transcortin. This roller coaster ride continues until a steady state is maintained and reestablished. In the mean time all that bound cortisol needs to go somewhere since there’s to much to use it all and the liver is over loaded. It goes to the bodies warehouse that can be accessed rapidly if needed Rapid access, is a place called BELLY FAT!
Now lets keep doing this every day eventually what happens is the body begins to prepare for the daily storm. It begins raising the production CBG which starts lowering the free cortisol and the body starts feeling fatigued and in anticipation epi and endogenous production of cortisol become depressed and pain starts to become more noticeable.
The brain says “IT’S TIME FOR OUR BLAST!” Down goes the pill and the roller coaster ride starts.
Eventually the body will start to just maintain higher levels CBG which will then call for higher levels cortisol to maintain a balance which means the adrenals will be required to produce more and since the cells diet of bound cortisol is maxed out the excess go’s to the belly. Now seriously does this sound like a way to threat adrenal fatigue??
You’ll note I stayed away from other effects this has on the body and focused just on the key players involved here.
I often question why they don’t make a extended release pill so the body can see lower supplementation but I answered my own question in that continued use of such a pill would result in adrenal failure if it were used for a extended amount of time.
This why the get in, get it done, and get out type of treatment is the gold standard with cortisol.


The thing is Johnwen, you are still arguing from the point of view that the body is making as much cortisol as it needs.
How does this scenario work out when the body is not making as much as it needs?

Really, how?

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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#32  Post by Johnwen » Thu May 16, 2013 9:47 am

How does this scenario work out when the body is not making as much as it needs?


Based on what? Because they feel sluggish or something just don’t feel right? Or when they exhibit the symptoms of Addison’s disease like hyperpigmatation or orthostatic hypotension. That is proven through saliva testing, serum readings, ACTH Load testing, 24 hour urine test, etc.
Each one of the above would have it’s own action within the system and most of the time through proper testing would expose the problem that is more then likely originating from some other cause like cholesterol deficiency, pituitary adenoma, infection etc. There’s been a lot of hype about adrenal inefficiency lately however their finding it’s not the cortisol that is lacking most of the time it’s excess cortisol and lack of DHEA that is causing the problems. This play’s out more when there is a imbalance elsewhere in the body and the body is responding to the stress of that problem. So to ASSUME one has adrenal deficiency without proper testing and basing it on how it makes them feel is not going to solve the real problem and could just lead to further problems down the road. Bear in mind that adrenal deficiency is considered a RARE problem and this is proven over and over with proper testing.
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#33  Post by kohlrabicroce » Thu May 16, 2013 11:11 am

Johnwen wrote:
How does this scenario work out when the body is not making as much as it needs?


Based on what? Because they feel sluggish or something just don’t feel right? Or when they exhibit the symptoms of Addison’s disease like hyperpigmatation or orthostatic hypotension. That is proven through saliva testing, serum readings, ACTH Load testing, 24 hour urine test, etc.
Each one of the above would have it’s own action within the system and most of the time through proper testing would expose the problem that is more then likely originating from some other cause like cholesterol deficiency, pituitary adenoma, infection etc. There’s been a lot of hype about adrenal inefficiency lately however their finding it’s not the cortisol that is lacking most of the time it’s excess cortisol and lack of DHEA that is causing the problems. This play’s out more when there is a imbalance elsewhere in the body and the body is responding to the stress of that problem. So to ASSUME one has adrenal deficiency without proper testing and basing it on how it makes them feel is not going to solve the real problem and could just lead to further problems down the road. Bear in mind that adrenal deficiency is considered a RARE problem and this is proven over and over with proper testing.


Based on the proper tests, that's what.

So since Owen has been to a doctor, one must ASSUME that his doctor or a laboratory extracted some blood
from Owen. And then one must ASSUME that his doctor looked at the test results, and said: "Oh you
have low cortisol." And then gave him a prescription to deal with it.

What would the proper test for adrenal insufficiency be?

If owen's treatment is incorrect, how do you explain the fact that he is getting better, and
is in fact gradually able to lower the dose as he heals?

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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#34  Post by ofonorow » Thu May 16, 2013 12:37 pm

We are making it complicated. I disagree with the idea that taking cortisol causes the cycle you describe, and from personal experience, believe it is probably the opposite! When I take my now 4 mg of cortisol I feel good. Well. Healthy. I take only 2 mg and soon my fingers/knuckles swell, my toes hurt, muscles ache.

I am mainly concerned with inflammation, the role of cortisol to control inflammation.

The body has an absolute daily requirement for cortisol which the adrenals produce.

I cannot explain why when my difficulties first began (conditions exactly as described in the Jefferies SAFE USES OF CORTISOL, by the way. Knowledge unknown to today's experts. I stumped how many, 10, 15 specialists?) Anyway, when I was in the hospital - I did not have joint pain. I had all sorts of other reactions I now attribute to insufficient cortisol. And perhaps the joint pain did not set in right away for some of the reasons you describe johnwen, but I did have the shortness of breath, apparent respiratory infection (but no pathogen could be found!) and the heart sac filled with fluid.

insight added wrote: I think I may know what happened. Why I didn't get joint pain right away. When the brain wants cortisol, it really wants it, and when it doesn't get it, hormonal signals fly fast and furious. The brain was able to get enough cortisol, from extraordinary measures, but the hormonal imbalances that resulted are responsible for the other issues. This is very similar to what Jefferies described in many cases, and explained why giving a small replacement dosage to young women normalized breast development, because the hormonal signals trying to have the adrenals make cortisol had gone awry.


It was only later, after I got out of the hospital that the joint pain began in earnest, and thinking that it might be gout, I tried to treat that - to no avail.

My rescue was the med-pak of methyl prednisolone my (now fired) primary care physician gave me - to help me avoid a 3rd ER visit.) I learned on my own that no amount of IV/C had any real effect (unless solef cort?? was added - a form of cortisol!). I discovered that with 8 mg of methyl prednisolone, I was fine. No pain, etc. Only later did I learn that 8-10 mg is the "replacement" dosage.

As a thought experiment, lets reiterate, The body has an absolute daily requirement for cortisol which the adrenals produce. (No reason yet to confuse free/bound. The adrenals make it every day, and we know this from adernalectomized patients. People without functioning adrenal glands.)

Pick a number for a given individual. Lets say it is 9.5 mg of cortisol, on average, that this individual's adrenal glands produce, day in, day out, throughout his entire unstressed life.

Then one day, after a major stress caused the brain to request say 18 mg for several days, the adrenals lose their full capacity, and only produce 9 mg (not the requested 9.5 mg). (Note: According to SAFE USES OF CORTISOL, the exhaustion sets in about 2 months after the major stress in ones life.)

What happens? If day after day, instead of the 9.5 mg the brain is requested, the adrenals are only able to product 9 mg?

What if .5 mg of cortisol is missing for an extended time?

And what if it gets worse, what if only 8 mgs can be produced throughout the day?

We are talking about potentially very small changes in output.

The point is that because of the general variability in cortisol secretion, it is very difficult to create a test that will show this.

I maintain that doctors can make educated guesses that this is happening, as the number one symptom over time is pain in the extremities - especially fingers, knuckles and joints.

This is the condition generally unrecognized or diagnosed by modern medicine that is the cause of untold pain and suffering, and if it were not for Doctor Jefferies, I would be among that throng!
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#35  Post by Johnwen » Sat May 18, 2013 2:49 pm

[I cannot explain why when my difficulties first began]


Lets digress a little more and take a look at the pancreas surgery you had prior to these episodes. From what I recall of the description of the growth they removed it sounded to me like a, “mediastinal pancreatic pseudocyst.”
But you never really said, your recovery went well so some things are best left behind except sometimes things can come back to haunt you. When the surgeons removed the growth it would be oblivious that there will be some scaring in the area it was removed from. We all know from scrapes and cuts we receive during our lifetime that the average healing time is anywhere from 7 to 10 days. However internal healing is a process were the encapsulation is rapid and follows the same time line as external damage but then there is a stage where things go through a remodeling phase where the body try’s to establish a form of continuity of tissue structure. This a time burdened process which can take from 2 to 3 years to complete and sometimes will go deeper then the original wound. In the pancreas this scaring could affect the Beta cells which produce Insulin causing them to elevate or drop in their production or for that matter make the insulin ineffective in transporting glucose into the cells or transporting it into the cells and not allowing it’s release. Which would cause normal glucose levels with hypoglycemic symptoms. But I’m more incline to think that a pseudocyst marker may still be present in your system and when the conditions are right it emerges where the conditions are right as described in your above problem that stumped 10 or 15 specialists. You’ll also see that they can and do disappear on their own an some will hang around for awhile and never go away then with some Draining gets rid of it other may have to be excised.

Heres a WIKI on pseudocyst. Look for the light to go on with this one!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudocyst

[but I did have the shortness of breath, apparent respiratory infection (but no pathogen could be found!) and the heart sac filled with fluid.]


I keyed on this quote from you and presented a study on a 55 year old who presented with the same symptoms.

http://www.jmedicalcasereports.com/content/2/1/180

Here’s some more.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1 ... view#a0101


What I’m attempting to present here is once again! “Is just grabbing a feel good pill,” doesn’t correct the real reason for the problem and may cause it’s own problems further down the road. Of course one can disregard scientific findings and research and overlook proven methods of utilization by the human body so they can base there personal opinions on one book. I’m sure with the amount of books out there a person could justify even there wildest dreams on one book someone else wrote. But that don’t make it right. Especially when the preponderance of knowledge and research say’s otherwise.
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#36  Post by kohlrabicroce » Sun May 19, 2013 9:17 am

In the pancreas this scaring could affect the Beta cells which produce Insulin causing them to elevate or drop in their production or for that matter make the insulin ineffective in transporting glucose into the cells or transporting it into the cells and not allowing it’s release. Which would cause normal glucose levels with hypoglycemic symptoms.


How could scar tissue in the pancreas make the insulin that *is* released, ineffective in transporting glucose into the cells?
How could this ineffective (or less effective) insulin cause normal glucose levels?

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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#37  Post by ofonorow » Mon May 20, 2013 2:56 pm

Lets get back to the issue, will johnwen (medicine) accept that fact that it is possible for the adrenal gland to lack the capacity to produce enough cortisol to meet the brain's demand? Especially after age 50, and after a great stress? (The other option is the cortisol is always available in limitless supply.)

And does medicine realize that when there is a shortage of cortisol in the blood stream, the end result is inflammation/pain? We are talking 12-24 hours before the pain begins.

If doctors are not taught this, there is a big hole in their education... (Speaking of holes,, vitamin C, cholesterol, salt, stomach acid, etc.)

And I thought of another way for the doctor to diagnose/prescribe adrenal insufficiency :o .

Blood sugar.

If the result of exogenous supplementation is additive - then blood pressure should rise.

(I thought of this because my own blood sugar which has remained around 120 for about a year on 4 mg - rose last week. In response, I have lowered my cortisol (methyl prednisolone) intake from 4 to 1 to 2 grams, so far without much pain!)

The position that it is always dangerous to supplement cortisol is untenable. And I think using blood sugar as a guide, along with pain, makes a lot of sense.

Do M.D.'s have any idea that when cortisol is low, the body inflames?

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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#38  Post by Johnwen » Tue May 21, 2013 9:35 am

I quoted only the first line of your prior post for reference to save space.
Entire Question/comments are on Owen’s prior post.


Lets get back to the issue, will johnwen (medicine) accept that fact that it is possible for


I believe they have but it’s not from what some people would have you believe it’s from as you will see here. Just pick a topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... eficiency+

Or start here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucocorti ... ficiency_1

And does medicine realize that when there is a shortage of cortisol in the blood stream,


http://www.wellness.com/reference/aller ... une-system
Drag Bar Down 1st ½ Page is blank ????
This is everything one needs to know about cortisol and inflammation.

And I thought of another way for the doctor to diagnose/prescribe adrenal insufficiency .
Blood sugar.


OMG!!! :shock:

If the result of exogenous supplementation is additive - then blood pressure should rise.

It does read above!

(I thought of this because my own blood sugar which has remained around 120 for about

Of Course! Cortisol Blocks the action of insulin to raise the sugar levels needed for fight or flight response.

The position that it is always dangerous to supplement cortisol is untenable. And I think using blood sugar as a guide, along with pain, makes a lot of sense.

Not if you truly and unbiasly studied it’s actions and effects.

Do M.D.'s have any idea that when cortisol is low, the body inflames?


Low cortisol doesn’t start the process there’s always a causative agent be it genetics or damage. Cortisol’s job is to stop it! The real question is, “AT WHAT COST!”

Cortisol was first discovered in 1930’s as substance X, it was conceived for usage as a drug in 1941 and it was Born on Sept. 21, 1948 in the past almost 65 years it has been studied, scrutinized and praised. Any type of idea on this drug has been proven or disproved over and over again. It still doesn’t change how it reacts in the body only now they thoroughly understand why it does what it does to the body. It’s good points and bad are well documented and established. It is a great quick fix but does have it’s problem with long term or high dose usage. These deleterious side effects are what weights the use of it to be limited to short term get in, get it done and get out type of treatment.
The real subject here is, “Not what it can do for you? But what it does to you! This is the real problem!”
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#39  Post by ofonorow » Tue May 21, 2013 3:31 pm

Will study those links, but your argument to its logical conclusion is that the body is hurting itself! (By producing cortisol). My argument is that as we age, some people cannot produce enough, and that results in pain.

Doctors who are afraid to prescribe it, end up making a lot more money than if they did. That is the thesis, that this is simply another area where medicine is wrong - in favor of treatment of chronic diseases with pharmaceuticals.

By the way, Coritsol is not a "feel good" drug, any more than Aspirin is a "feel good drug." Yes, it stops pain, and I guess, come to think of it, that is why they call them NSAIDS - Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drugs... Cortisol is THE anti-inflammatory "drug". (Natural hormone!)

Saying it has been studied so there is nothing more to learn, hides and obscures the fact that a lot of pain can easily be eliminated if M.D.s were trained properly.

My own speculation is that the aches and pains in the morning upon waking up as we age, are caused by low cortisol in the a.m., with sluggish adrenals, which get kicked up to speed. Just speculating.

Before I describe last night, sometimes, don't you think we are all taking part in some kind of Alien Child's High School Science Experiment in Human Behavior or Human Physchology? Could all these things be coincidence? (Like my arguing for cortisol.. Then the experimenter pushes a button - and my blood sugar rises - during the argument here. Strange, that's all.)

Anyway, I tried to cut back to 1 mg methyl prednisolone yesterday (equivalent of 5 mg hydrocortisone) and was good up until bed time. Then the pain began in an unusual way. More like pricks and needles of inflammation, around my hands/knuckles, but also my arms/legs... So I chickened out, and took another 1 mg...

Woke up today pretty good, but I know I am on the edge - my body needs some extra (seems like at least 2 mg, which is 1/2 the dosage I was taking) , so I am trying to follow Dr. Pincus's advice and wean slowly..

But this does seem to argue for johnwen's position - that even lower dosages can be additive... Assuming my blood sugar is entirely due to the prednisolone.
.
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#40  Post by kohlrabicroce » Tue May 21, 2013 4:09 pm

ofonorow wrote:Will study those links, but your argument to its logical conclusion is that the body is hurting itself! (By producing cortisol). My argument is that as we age, some people cannot produce enough, and that results in pain.

Doctors who are afraid to prescribe it, end up making a lot more money than if they did. That is the thesis, that this is simply another area where medicine is wrong - in favor of treatment of chronic diseases with pharmaceuticals.

By the way, Coritsol is not a "feel good" drug, any more than Aspirin is a "feel good drug." Yes, it stops pain, and I guess, come to think of it, that is why they call them NSAIDS - Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drugs... Cortisol is THE anti-inflammatory "drug". (Natural hormone!)

Saying it has been studied so there is nothing more to learn, hides and obscures the fact that a lot of pain can easily be eliminated if M.D.s were trained properly.

My own speculation is that the aches and pains in the morning upon waking up as we age, are caused by low cortisol in the a.m., with sluggish adrenals, which get kicked up to speed. Just speculating.

Before I describe last night, sometimes, don't you think we are all taking part in some kind of Alien Child's High School Science Experiment in Human Behavior or Human Physchology? Could all these things be coincidence? (Like my arguing for cortisol.. Then the experimenter pushes a button - and my blood sugar rises - during the argument here. Strange, that's all.)

Anyway, I tried to cut back to 1 mg methyl prednisolone yesterday (equivalent of 5 mg hydrocortisone) and was good up until bed time. Then the pain began in an unusual way. More like pricks and needles of inflammation, around my hands/knuckles, but also my arms/legs... So I chickened out, and took another 1 mg...

Woke up today pretty good, but I know I am on the edge - my body needs some extra (seems like at least 2 mg, which is 1/2 the dosage I was taking) , so I am trying to follow Dr. Pincus's advice and wean slowly..

But this does seem to argue for johnwen's position - that even lower dosages can be additive... Assuming my blood sugar is entirely due to the prednisolone.
.


I'm trying to understand....how does your very recent experience with unsuccessfully trying to lower your dose, argue for Johnwen's position that even lower
doses can be additive? When it seems clear that your experience indicates it was not additive?

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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#41  Post by ofonorow » Tue May 21, 2013 4:35 pm

There many errors in this link http://www.wellness.com/reference/allergies/glucocorticoids-and-the-immune-system that I feel obligated to comment:

#1. Yes, inflammation is mentioned, but consider this emphasis here

The most abundant type of glucocorticoid is cortisol (also called hydrocortisone). It is involved in the functioning of proper glucose metabolism, as well as the regulation of blood pressure, insulin release for blood sugar maintenance and the inflammatory response.

The first bullet should be inflammation! You don't make (or eat) cortisol for a day, you don't die because of glucose metabolism, high blood pressure or insulin release. You would die because the human body explodes with inflammation without cortisol. This is apparently unknown or ignored. (If any one feel obligated to argue, please explain why then the body cannot tolerate even one day without cortisol!)


Glucocorticoids (both natural and synthetic) inhibit the immune response, thus preventing inflammation from occurring.


This is medicine's theory, but in my opinion, it is WRONG. Cart before the horse. Assumes that inflammation is prevented because the drugs inhibit immune response. Something fishy in River City. Why do people with low cortisol reportedly have more respiratory infections? (Yes, there is a bell curve, and high doses can suppress immune response, we are not taking high doses.)

I don't think modern medicine realizes that ALL tissues will inflame without cortisol. For no apparent reason. There is no trigger, other than the lack of cortisol. We've covered this before, but this is what happened to me, and there is really no other logical explanation - and no other reason why we humans cannot last a day without cortisol in our blood.

I think it is so simple, it cannot be accepted.

So lets get technical, lets assume the following description of how cortisol modulates inflammation is basically correct.



In addition to interfering with the transcription of enzymes involved in inflammation, glucocorticoids also suppress inflammation by activating enzymes called lipocortins. Lipocortins slow the action of phospholipase A2 (PLA2), an important enzyme involved in the release of arachidonic acid (AA) from the cell membrane.
.
.
.
Glucocorticoids can also inhibit COX-2 enzymes directly.


All I am saying is that this inflammatory process, unregulated by cortisol/glucocortocoids, starts on its own! No other trigger necessary. All these pathways are activated when there is not cortisol to regulate it.


However, since they suppress the body's immune system, which fights off foreign substances that enter the body, these drugs do no prevent an infection or disease. In fact, individuals who are taking glucocorticoids are more susceptible to infection or diseases than those who are not.

Again, the fact that dosage is important is obscured. Conceding that high dosages do this, "normal" dosages obviously do not as these dosages are produced by the adrenal glands daily.


: Since glucocorticoids suppress the body's immune system, individuals who are taking glucocorticoids are more susceptible to infection or diseases than those who are not. Glucocorticoids can cause serious side effects like diabetes or osteoporosis. Patients taking long-term medication need to gradually taper off the medication to avoid serious side effects.

Okay, so why haven't i been sick since I started taking methyl prednisolone? lucky?
I'll give them diabetes, but osteopororis? Again, this is an effect that only happens at high dosages.

Wow! The following makes my case! All these conditions are in my theory caused because the body is making insufficient cortisol to meet the brain's demand!

Oral glucocorticoids have been used to treat such conditions as Addison's disease, acquired hemolytic anemia (red blood cells are destroyed prematurely), acute mountain sickness, allergic reactions, antiemetic asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), inflammatory bowel disease (Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis), collagen diseases, congenital hypoplastic anemia (low levels of red blood cells due to dysfunctional bone marrow), dermatologic disorders, drug hypersensitivity reaction, Graves ophthalmopathy, exfoliative dermatitis, hepatitis, hirsutism, hypercalcemia, leukemias, lymphomas, muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis, organ transplant, pemphigus (skin disease that causes chronic blistering), adrenal cortical insufficiency and rheumatic disorders.

Inhaled glucocorticoids (like Aerobid®, Azmacort®, Beclovent®, Flovent®, Pulmicort® or Vanceril®) have been used to treat asthma.

Nasal inhaled glucocorticoids like fluticasone (Flonase®), mometasone (Nasonex®) and triamcinolone (Nasacort®), have been used to treat allergic rhinitis, non-allergic (vasomotor) rhinitis and nasal polyps.

Ocular glucocorticoids (eye drops/cream) have been used to treat allergic conjunctivitis, allergic corneal marginal ulcers, corneal injury, cyclitis (inflammation of the middle part of the eye), posterior uveitis (inflammation of the layer of the eye between the sclera and the retina) and choroiditis (inflammation of the layer of the eye beneath the retina), iritis, keratitis (inflammation of the cornea), keratoplasty (surgical replacement of the cornea), nonspecific superficial keratitis, optic neuritis (inflammation of the optic nerve) and superficial punctate keratitis (cell death of the surface of the cornea).

Topical glucocorticoids have been used to treat allergic contact dermatitis, anogenital pruritus, atopic dermatitis (eczema), burns, insect bite reactions, lichen simplex chronicus (skin disorder characterized by chronic itching and scratching), psoriasis, seborrheic dermatitis (dandruff) and xerosis (dry mouth, eye or skin).

Intravenous glucocorticoids have been used to treat acute spinal cord injury, allergic reactions, anemias, bacterial meningitis, cerebral edema, idiopathic thrombocytopenia purpura in adults, Pneumocystis jiroveci pneumonia (formerly called Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia), septic shock and hives.

Rectal glucocorticoids (such as enemas) have been used to treat cryptitis, factitial proctitis, hemorrhoids and ulcerative colitis.

I say no wonder "THEY" want doctors ignorant! Where is Rheumatoid Arthritis or Fibromyalgia on this list? Imagine what a Naturopath could if this were an OTC drug? Or what doctors could do, if they were trained on how to properly dose?
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#42  Post by ofonorow » Tue May 21, 2013 4:43 pm

kohlrabicroce wrote:
ofonorow wrote:Will study those links,. . . .
But this does seem to argue for johnwen's position - that even lower dosages can be additive... Assuming my blood sugar is entirely due to the prednisolone.
.


I'm trying to understand....how does your very recent experience with unsuccessfully trying to lower your dose, argue for Johnwen's position that even lower
doses can be additive? When it seems clear that your experience indicates it was not additive?


The answer is that my blood sugar rose.

This shouldn't happen at 4 mg. If I take 4, the adrenals should only produce around 4. The total cortisol must have been more than 8-10 (in prednizone units) for the sugar to rise above 400 again.

I can tell now that my own adrenals can make about 6 mg, so if they were at capacity - 6 - plus my other 4, the results could be over 10 mg.

Now there has been a certain amount of stress related to the Foundation move, and inabilty to procure products. hmmm It is possible that the body was requesting a higher amount that it should - from the stress.

But why then doesn't anyone under stress reach 400 mg/dl blood sugar. Appreciate your post and thoughts.
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#43  Post by kohlrabicroce » Tue May 21, 2013 6:12 pm

ofonorow wrote:
The answer is that my blood sugar rose.

This shouldn't happen at 4 mg. If I take 4, the adrenals should only produce around 4. The total cortisol must have been more than 8-10 (in prednizone units) for the sugar to rise above 400 again.

I can tell now that my own adrenals can make about 6 mg, so if they were at capacity - 6 - plus my other 4, the results could be over 10 mg.

Now there has been a certain amount of stress related to the Foundation move, and inabilty to procure products. hmmm It is possible that the body was requesting a higher amount that it should - from the stress.

But why then doesn't anyone under stress reach 400 mg/dl blood sugar. Appreciate your post and thoughts.


Wait, your blood sugar rose to 400 mg/dl when you increased your dose again, after going down to 1 mg?
I'm not clear about whether it happened at a dose of 4 mg before you tried to reduce it, but I am just
beginning to learn about adrenal fatigue (and suspect I might have it).

But I do know a little about diabetes, as I have it. 400 mg/dl is really bad! I would go talk
to your doctor about it! Wow !

Sounds like this situation is complicated and needs some discussion with your real doctor, in person.

Just my opinion!

But I do agree with your opinion that "it is so simple, it cannot be accepted" by the medical profession.

I know you like that book you recommend, but I'm going to start with Dr. Wilson's book:
"Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome."

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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#44  Post by Johnwen » Tue May 21, 2013 10:11 pm

Will study those links, but your argument to its logical conclusion is that the body is hurting itself! (By producing cortisol). My argument is that as we age, some people cannot produce enough, and that results in pain.


My own speculation is that the aches and pains in the morning upon waking up as we age, are caused by low cortisol in the a.m., with sluggish adrenals, which get kicked up to speed. Just speculating.


Combined these two here they say about the same thing.
I don’t see a argument here because it’s a known fact that cortisol increases with age due to the decline of other hormones produced by the adrenal glands. This decrease causes an increase by the pituitary gland of ACTH. Since endogenous production of cortisol is necessary for life itself the part of the adrenal known as the zona fasciculata of the adrenal cortex that produces cortisol, it is also the most protected part of the adrenal gland. This increase of ACTH is an attempt to balance the other hormones however it also increases the protected cortisol beyond which it would normally produce allowing it to do it’s damage to the body and Brain. For the skeptics, here is a article and 2 studies that will demonstrate this function in more a techy presentation.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/jul ... sol_01.htm

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6823/9/16

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2680862/

There’s about 1400 others available that date back to the 80’s

Doctors who are afraid to prescribe it, end up making a lot more money than if they did. That is the thesis, that this is simply another area where medicine is wrong - in favor of treatment of chronic diseases with pharmaceuticals.


Actually it would end up costing them a lot more money from the malpractice lawsuits that would follow from the damage it would do. In case you haven’t noticed. Cortisol is a prescription drug which means it is a pharmaceutical.

By the way, Coritsol is not a "feel good" drug, any more than Aspirin is a "feel good drug." Yes, it stops pain, and I guess, come to think of it, that is why they call them NSAIDS - Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drugs... Cortisol is THE anti-inflammatory "drug". (Natural hormone!)

You said it, “NON- STEROIDAL” developed to avoid the deleterious effects of steroids. Cortisol is a STEROID!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol

Saying it has been studied so there is nothing more to learn, hides and obscures the fact that a lot of pain can easily be eliminated if M.D.s were trained properly.


They are trained properly to, “First Do No Harm!” There is a lot of drugs out there that work very well but have nasty side effects with long and some short term usage. They are trained to weight the benefits versus harm and to recognize when it’s time to stop and reevaluate and take a different course before the Harm becomes irreversible. Cortisol falls into this category.

Before I describe last night, sometimes, don't you think we are all taking part in some kind of Alien Child's High School Science Experiment in Human Behavior or Human Physchology? Could all these things be coincidence? (Like my arguing for cortisol.. Then the experimenter pushes a button - and my blood sugar rises - during the argument here. Strange, that's all.)


Owen! In all earnest you really need to get a hormone saliva test done and find out what the heck is really going on before things get to far gone. There a little pricey but as I always ask “What is your health worth to you?”
Then you can locate a good bio-identical compounding pharmacy and get the right balance of what your body needs to provide optimal health without doing more harm then good. Once you get on the right path you’ll understand what I’m saying and your ageing body will think it’s a lot younger then your drivers license says.
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#45  Post by Johnwen » Tue May 21, 2013 10:27 pm

Posted the above late I see two more posts were added.
I see you hit 400 not good but does happen.
You need to get a A1C test to get a overveiw of whats been going on over the last few months and see if this spike is a common thing or a fluke.
If your over 150 in the am get a hold of your doc.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
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