Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

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Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:52 am

Lady from Canada wanted to know if Vitamin C can help with shortness of breath


While there may be several reasons for shortness of breath, in my case, as documented at this forum (http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9194) this symptom was due to fluid accumulating in the pericardial sac around the heart. I recommend those with shortness of breath go to a hospital and have an ultrasound to find out whether they are experiencing the same problem. Any build-up of fluid has to be drained.

After almost a year struggling with what seemed like respiratory infections, shortness of breath, pain in the back and the neck, I found the book SAFE USES OF CORTISOL by William Mck Jefferies, 3rd Edition, 2004, which explained what was happening to me. My adrenals had stopped producing sufficient cortisol, leading to these symptoms. All is explained in this book. After I began taking a replacement dosage of cortisol, I became well.

Now while cortisol is a natural hormone (hydrocortisone) the prescription is “scary.” Prednisone, a concentrated form of cortisol, if not prescribed properly (i.e., when prescribed at too high a dosage) can be dangerous. But when prescribed at 8 mg or less, can work miracles, rest the adrenals, etc. The problem in the USA is finding a doctor willing to prescribed as most here are trained in the danger, but not the proper usage.

In another topic, johnwen mentioned that he disagrees with my opinion on replacement cortisol, and I would like to continue that discussion here. I don't know if there was some paranormal reason for me to go through what I did, or simply fate. But I have learned, what very few doctors seem to know or fully understand: The primary function cortisol performs in the human body is to silence inflammation.

My mother began suffering from painful Rheumatoid Arthritis in 1974, was given a single cortisone shot at the Mayo Clinic, which provided significant relief, but eventually she was forced to move to Tucson Arizona for health reasons. If I knew then what I know now, she would not have to have spent practically her entire adult life in pain - inflammatory joint and other extremity pain. (She discovered that the only thing that provided her any relief was vitamin C, creating her interest, and eventually mine.)

Now that I think I know how to properly dose cortisol (e.g. prednizone and methyl prednisolone) I see that doctors generally prescribe it poorly, in too high amounts, for too long. (E.g. for people with serious infections and other conditions.) There is a body of knowledge (Search T. Pinkus) that illustrates how safe and effective small amounts of prednisone (10 mg or less) are for Rheumatoid Arthritis.

I don't fully understand why adrenal fatigue, leading to low or little cortisol output, mimics respiratory infections, causes shortness of breath, and other issues, but I have been very well since I went on the 8 mg methyl prednisolone (now 4 mg daily.) 2 mg in the am and then 2 mg in the later afternoon. In fact I am feeling so well, that again, I wonder if the misinformation about prednisone (steroids) is accidental, or anther deliberate attempt to induce illness in the population for the obvious monetary rewards.

Johnwen, and others, if there really is a natural way to "rest the adrenals" and create this hormone, I am all ears. I do not like relying on prescription, but it truly is a miracle "drug."
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:36 am

First!! Excellent advice for the person short of breath Ie. "GET TO A DOCTOR!"

Now the Can of worms you wish to open in the Name of "Adrenal Insufficiency,"
If you think about it taking a small dose of cortisol to relieve the symptoms is just that treating the symptoms and not solving the problem. Which is a modern medicine way of doing things.
Wouldn't it be better to find the REAL problem and CURE IT so you wouldn't have to support big Pharma???? Unless the problem is beyond repair????

Lets start by taking a look at what is going on here!
I searched around and the best presentation of this problem is in wiki and it don't appear as bias, for a change it's factual! So lets start and we'll use the Blue link words to explore the realitive connections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenal_insufficiency
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#3  Post by tjohnson_nb » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:53 am

I don't see 'shortness of breath' as a symptom there - :roll:
'Always' and 'never' are 2 words you should always remember never to use.

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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#4  Post by Johnwen » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:16 pm

Cortisol regulates the body's ability to fight off histamines from allergens that cause inflammation. So if a person has a compromised respiratory system to begin with, such as a cold, flu, asthma, etc. as while as under producing adrenal glands, the over production of histamines will cause a fluid build up in the lungs which will lead to shortness of breath. Although not all people will respond to just cortisol treatment and may require a increase in epinephrine also. Which is also produced by the adrenal’s
Simply put, shortness of breath which may not even be noticeable, will be aggravated when the adrenal glands are under-producing.
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 am

Johnwen wrote:

Now the Can of worms you wish to open in the Name of "Adrenal Insufficiency,"
If you think about it taking a small dose of cortisol to relieve the symptoms is just that treating the symptoms and not solving the problem. Which is a modern medicine way of doing things.
Wouldn't it be better to find the REAL problem and CURE IT so you wouldn't have to support big Pharma???? Unless the problem is beyond repair????


This is turning into my favorite subject.

Isn't your argument about the same as saying take a small dose of testosterone is just treating the symptoms and not solving the problem? Or DHEA? Or hGH? What about Insulin?

In my case, the real problem became obvious. My adrenals were not producing enough, and at one point, any cortisol! (This is no fun! Few can try it and live - I had the methyl prednisolone pack, plus a lot of IV/C!)

The beauty of the Jefferies protocol - is that cortisol replacement at the correct dosage allows the adrenals to rest, so when there is a stressor, the adrenals can make more cortisol (and perhaps other adrenal hormones) they are called upon to make. If you take less than a replacement dosage, you do not turn off the adrenals. They do not atrophy. Over 300 perfect babies were born to women taking hdyrocortisone (cortisol supplementation) under Jefferies care.

As far as big pharma - these "medicines" came out in the early 1950s! I can tell by how vehemently doctors oppose giving them, that Big Pharma makes very little money from "steroid glutacorticoids."

So, I am curious. What in your opinion makes cortisol hormone replacement such a bad thing, and why is the attitude different, and not applied to testosterone as we age, (or is it?) Or Insulin?


added.. had a thought.. the "real" problem is aging.
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#6  Post by Johnwen » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:26 pm

To set the scene for my response would have to be comparing the preverbal “Apples to Oranges.”
For anyone studying the physics of the human body it becomes very apparent that our creator put us here with one job/goal and that is to reproduce. A such we were given certain physiological tools to accomplish this task as while as means to bring us to shape needed to perform these tasks. After placing the offspring in place and rearing them to self sufficiency the reproductive mechanism is no longer needed and neither is the vehicle. However our social status now has been extended to well past natures needs. Modern medicine has been able to identify what nature takes away from us as we age and we have been able to extend these function to well past their usefulness. If you look into such hormones as HGH, Igf-1, Testosterone, estrogen. You’ll find that their function is targeted at the reproductive cycle and are naturally diminished as we age. Yes they play a role in the body as a whole because the body has to be in shape to reproduce and rearing. As such they have been tagged as sex hormones.
On the other hand you have essential hormones in the body that must be produce to sustain the being we call life. Examples of these hormones are thyroid complex, adrenal complex, pancreatic complex, etc. these hormones are intended to control just about all aspects of life. When one of them fail there is usually a backup plan but in general when they fail the body expires. Again modern medicine has been able to identify and substitute them and prolong life. An example is insulin we have found that diabetes can be reversed but it is a complex process to undo lifestyles and takes time. It’s more simple to just get a shot pay the money and move on. A such the diabetes industry has blocked the knowledge to correct in lieu of profits.
The same can apply to cortisol however science has not been able to produce a exact duplicate of this hormone and the replacement has many draw backs if taken over a long term. Again to bring the adrenals back to their standard production state a complete evaluation of the systems that feeds and controls them would have to be done. If the adrenals produce sufficient other hormones and lack in one this problem should be addressed if it’s lack is caused by over use or under production and what base product maybe lacking or is it the control system not seeing a need to produce. As one can imagine the cost of such analyses would be prohibitive. So medicine takes a stab at a short term supplementing to establish a balance with hopes things will right themselves. They coin words such as resting the adrenals! Well last I learned the adrenals rest when you sleep. In another topic they are talking about the circadian cycle if one would look at these charts you’ll see that the adrenal hormones bottom out during certain hours and produce heavy during others.
Sure looks like Rest and Work to me. I also believe as the medical profession continues to push for lower and lower cholesterol levels in the name of profits! I mean Heart health. We will see more and more hormonal problems emerge.
One must also bear in mind that the body works as a system and balance between these various hormones must be maintained to reach the level of performance needed to sustain life. However were all programmed to age and leave this life and there is a point where performance is not an option.
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#7  Post by ofonorow » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:45 pm

Good explanation of how and why hormones differ.

I the following statement is the crux of the issue.

The same can apply to cortisol however science has not been able to produce a exact duplicate of this hormone and the replacement has many draw backs if taken over a long term.


I understand your concern. However, the exact duplicate of cortisone is hydrocortisone. Science achieved the feat of replicating cortisol back in the early 1950s, or more than fifty years ago. It is true that I am not taking the exact duplicate of cortisol, but so far, I find the analog methyl prednisolone to be just fine. Fantastic thank you.

As far as the many drawbacks "if taken over a long term." This is the heart of the debate. I think if you add the words "at a too high dosage" you are absolutely correct. Whether too much cortisol is produced by stress, or by taking it as a pill, I agree there are draw backs at high dosages.

When cortisol is used below what the body would otherwise make there can be no drawback. Either the body makes it or a drug company makes it. (Taking less does not raise overall cortisol levels - the adrenals make less in this case.)

Both the Jefferies and Pinkus long-term repots (both have published their 30+ year clinical experience) show that low dose cortisol replacement is completely safe and without draw backs. (The 300 perfect pregnancies to women on low dosage cortisol replacement therapy.)

The problem begins for people who are aging, they don't take a cortisol pill, and their adrenals cannot produce enough to meat the daily requirements. When this happens, the result is severe pain (unless some other pharmaceutical miracle drug is taken that can mitigate the pain/inflammation.) I say give me the simple hormone replacement, rather than some other drug that affects some of the signaling between the brain and adrenals.

I do think I understand why doctors, in general, are skeptical. It would be nearly impossible to see a person alive after complete adrenal failure. (I note that the description of Addison's disease http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addison%27s_disease lacks specifics, because Rheumatoid Arthritis/Fibromyalgia and other painful symptoms would likely manifest).

I believe that just like the case of Diabetes, an enormous number of people are suffering the pain and inflammation caused by low cortisol output, who could be helped and returned to good health with a little 4 mg truly miraculous pill.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#8  Post by Johnwen » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:59 pm

You present lots of good points however your looking at the output as the prime problem. Which as I said before is throwing pills at a symptom and not seeking the source of the problem.
First lets look at the home office and see what some problems could happen there if their not doing their job and how adding a supplement to production just maybe a sign something is wrong there.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalam ... ysfunction
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#9  Post by ofonorow » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:36 pm

There are two reasons to continue this discussion.

#1. I believe there are millions of human beings suffering needlessly who don't know that their pain and suffering could be easily controlled with a simple hormone replacement. (And of course, this isn't recognized, or has been forgotten by medicine, or else it wouldn't be happening.)

#2. #1 is happening because the true nature of cortisol is apparently unknown. I have never seen the understanding we are discussing about this hormone published or discussed elsewhere. To my knowledge, not even cortisol expert Dr. William Jefferies mentions it, although he did say that cortisol is the "only absolutely essential hormone."

Does anyone else know that a primary function of cortisol is to silence inflammation? My understanding is based on my unique experience - as documented in this forum. I believe it is probably the primary function, although low cortisol may manifest in multiple adverse ways.

I think this may be a perspective on cortisol that no one else extrapolated. Most books written about cortisol are trying to keep it in check or lower it. (The Mayo 1950 Nobel prize is an interesting read but has little to say on this point http://www.mayoclinic.org/tradition-heritage/cortisone-discovery.html.)

When tissues begin to inflame - the brain asks the adrenals to produce more cortisol, to put the fire out.

What is not recognized is that if cortisol is nor generally present in ordinary amounts in the blood - people with a tendency towards Rheumatoid Arthritis and other inflammatory conditions will begin to inflame! They will experience pain for almost no reason!
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#10  Post by Johnwen » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:13 am

First I would like to make a comment on something that were seeing much to often. Yesterday we lost a 26 year old to heart attack. He was having chest pains for the last 2 weeks and wouldn't seek medical help because he lost his job and didn't have medical insurance. We see more and more people waiting to long for the same reason. Don't be stupid if your experience shortnes of breath and or chest pain GET HELP DON'T WAIT!!!

Now back to subject, Previously I posted about the pituatary can cause these problems heres how it's tested. If this pans out as ok then we'll look down the tracks to the next gland.

http://labtestsonline.org/understanding ... tab/glance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTH_stimulation_test

After reading Owen's last post I figured its time for a look at the anatomy of the adrenals.
I must say that everyone is entitled to their opions but sometimes nature has other ideas. Heres a study guide on their functions for med students I think we'll find that it's just not cortisol thats involved here.

http://www.enotes.com/adrenal-glands-re ... nal-glands

Heres a posting from a group that advocates low dose cortisol use However even they realize that it has a dark side

http://ic.steadyhealth.com/side_effects ... isone.html
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#11  Post by Johnwen » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:00 am

I came across something that may or may not be related to your situation that kind of looks a little like the “Agent Orange,” effect.
Something’s we do know is that if you suppress the immune system for a extended period time it will recover to a certain level to maintain it’s protective property’s but at some point in time for whatever reason it will return with a vengeance.
Speculation is that the suppressing agent lingers within the body at lower levels till the body figures a way to dispose of it or the immune system builds enough strength to or is stimulated by some other source to stage a full blown attack on the body to rid itself of the irritant.
The effects of this can lead to some pretty serious complications to the body as a whole. Attacking things such as the skin, joints, glands, organs etc.
This rebound attack may not manifest itself for many years after the exposure to the irritant.
I stumbled across these studies while looking for something else and I thought hay wait a minute, Owen, is ex Air Force but I really don’t now what kind of exposure he’s had to it. So I figured I’d present it, to see what you think???


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769063/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2721654/


http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/conten ... l.pdf+html
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#12  Post by randian » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:20 pm

ofonorow wrote:I believe it is probably the primary function, although low cortisol may manifest in multiple adverse ways.

Cortisol affects sleep/wake cycles. If your cortisol is low in the morning, you will not wake with energy and vigor like you should. If you have an inverted cortisol curve (low in the morning, high in the evening) you will have difficulty sleeping, and have more energy in the evening than the morning (the opposite of what should happen).

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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#13  Post by ofonorow » Wed May 01, 2013 8:57 am

Johnwen you seem to be ignoring the gorilla in the room... perhaps bad metaphor, and, yes, not every problem in the world is due to a lack of cortisol output as we age.

What I am saying is that medicine, for some reason, treats cortisol differently than other hormones. And unlike the sex hormones, as you eloquently pointed out, we need cortisol every day, for our entire lives. Or course there are many issues can affect the output of cortisol by the adrenal glands.

But the comments of two "highly trained" rheumatologists echo in my brain - "Prednizone is the most dangerous drug I prescribe. If you take it, your bones will crack, you will become deformed, etc. There is no safe dosage.."

These MDs are supposed to be experts, and they are ignorant.

If it were not for Dr. William Mck Jefferies, I would be in daily pain, especially in my fingers and toes, and all those things they warned me about would happen - from the constant inflammation.

And I am not alone.

Yes, they have new fangled medications they wanted to try for RA - but why? What is wrong with simple hormone replacement at the safe and proper dose? This is the simplest and safest answer, and for some reason, medicine has been steered away from it. I infer from your attitude johwen, that it has been ingrained to such a degree that cortisol is dangerous, it is hard to look at the facts objectively.
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#14  Post by Johnwen » Wed May 01, 2013 10:43 am

Cortisol is the reward! (keep this in mind as you read on.) I posting a lot of reading so give yourself time to digest these readings.

that it has been ingrained to such a degree that cortisol is dangerous, it is hard to look at the facts objectively.


Lets go back to the 50's
http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/co ... 6.full.pdf

Addiction?
http://www.rethinkingcancer.org/resourc ... ations.php

HMMM!
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/3/243.long

Lets find out what this is all about.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article ... eID=176622

2+2=4???
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/ ... 19-136.htm

DHEA It's more then a big name!
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Re: Shortness of breath - New Cortisol Discussion

Post Number:#15  Post by ofonorow » Fri May 03, 2013 11:02 am

I followed these bread crumbs, but alas, I cannot fathom the point?

Yes, hyper secretion of cortisol, by genetic error, would be bad.

But any dosage less than the body would ordinarily make on it own cannot cause addiction or any problem, for that matter, (barring the genetic error.) Why? Because it does not matter whether the body produces it or the same molecule is taken exogenously. Right?

The issue is and always will be taking more cortisol into the body than the body requires.

Unfortunately, based on the experiences of neighbors and friends, few doctors know how to dose cortisol properly.




Johnwen wrote:Cortisol is the reward! (keep this in mind as you read on.) I posting a lot of reading so give yourself time to digest these readings.

that it has been ingrained to such a degree that cortisol is dangerous, it is hard to look at the facts objectively.


Lets go back to the 50's
http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/co ... 6.full.pdf


Before they realized they were giving astronomically high dosages?


Several factual errors. Again, no recognition that dosage is key. Those taking what the body would
otherwise make are no different than what they would otherwise be. All this is related to overdose.




Yes, hypersecretion would be bad. No one argues this.

Lets find out what this is all about.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article ... eID=176622


extreme stress == cortisol over production.

2+2=4???
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/ ... 19-136.htm

DHEA It's more then a big name!

Interesting but again, irrelevant in dosages LESS than the body would ordinarily make during the day.

We are discussing natural hormone replacement - it is not additive (thank you Dr. Jefferies!) as the adrenals are asked to produce less if more winds up in the blood stream.

All these issues are red herrings - only applicable when cortisol is available at levels higher than normal.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
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