What cured my GERD?

This is where the best forum discussions are preserved for posterity.

Moderator: ofonorow

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12866
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:01 pm


Cortisol?

My brother in-law was over for dinner, he is a few years older, and he has chronic “heart burn” or GERD, and has for years. I realized that my own esophagus had recently healed and I no longer have GERD pain. (I had stopped taking NoGERD (licorice root) probably a year ago, after all the screwy blood test numbers.)

The following is a copy of an email that I sent him about what I think I know about the condition, and how I dealt with it.

But first, I am angry again! I had reduced my cortisol (methyl prednisolone) to around 2 mg daily. Long time now. Blood sugar around 110. And I felt great for what seems like quite a long time. (And a saliva test supported the fact that my own adrenal function was about 20% below normal during the entire day.) No pain. (I did get a blister on the foot which left a sore that hasn't healed since August, right around the time I started the Lantus/long lasting insulin. That is another story.)

So two weeks ago I had an over night stay, I forgot my cortisol (methy prednisolone) so I missed a day. Next day – no pain, so I thought perhaps my adrenals are working normally, and only took 1 mg the next day. So I was a measly 3 mg short for two days (0, 1, 2 instead of 2, 2, 2) . I paid for that for an extended period, i.e. a week to 10 days! Pain starting in the fingers, typical rheumatoid arthritis pain – all because I missed 3 mg, and then the question become, how much to increase to compensate, given the potential effect on my blood sugar?

I have learned that the pharmacokinetics of methyl prednisolone (as I learned the hard way too for hydrocortisone) are delayed, and not like taking an aspirin for pain (that works in perhaps 15 minutes.) The effect (increase in pain) can take 48 to 72 hours after the dosage is declined, but then restoring the dosage does not apparently affect the inflammation that has begun due to the shortage – for weeks! Ouch!

I am angry because as I feltl the pain again, I think of all the people (including my late mother) who had no idea that medicine had discovered exactly what causes and how to stop the pain - replacement of the body's own hormone cortisol. With this angst off my chest, here is what I sent my brother-in-law about what I did to eliminate my own heart burn/GERD. I now wonder if it would have been possible without cortisol supplementation? And if a slight lack of cortisol might be responsible for the inflammation in the esophagus that causes a lot of GERD?.



Dear “brother-in-law”,

I could tell that you are still suffering from "heart burn"/GERD and I know from experience it is like torture. While I may have told you some of this before, I want to review how I cured mine. I hadn't even thought about the fact that I now sleep through the night without any heart burn.
 
There are two valves or sphincters in the stomach, one to the connection to the intestines, where digested food is supposed to go, and the other at the top of the stomach, connected to the throat/esophagus. 
 
It is the upper sphincter that causes the problem.  It is supposed to keep the acid contents of the stomach - in the stomach.
 
 The stomach is designed for high acid.  But the throat/esophagus is not.   If stomach contents backs up from the stomach, through the open sphincter into the esophagus - it will burn and damage the throat. This is the cause of the pain.  And "they" are right in the commercials, in that this must be allowed to heal.  (I will get to how I got mine to heal).
 
There is a book you should read entitled WHY STOMACH ACID IS GOOD FOR YOU by Jonathan Wright and Lane Lenard.  Surprisingly, LOW stomach acid often causes GERD, and the fix, if this is the case, is to take stomach acid (Betaine HCL) with meals   Not intuitive, so read the book.
 
What seems to happen when the stomach acid is low - the sphincter muscle relaxes. (This may be why the vinegar fix seems to work -  the acid causes the sphincter to tighten.  The only problem is - if the throat is already raw and inflamed, Ouch!)
 
The other thing I learned is that the stomach completely empties six hours after a meal, and when it empties, as the lower sphincter relaxes and opens, the upper sphincter may open too - especially if you are lying down.  (You'll note the pain like clockwork six hours after your last meal at night).
 
One idea that is not always easy, is to eat more than six hours before going to bed and/or lying down. So you are upright when the stomach empties into the intestines.   Barring that, don't lie flat 6 hours after the night meal.   When I feel the pain at night, I immediately sit up for awhile, then when I lie down, I use enough pillows so I am at a 45 degree angle, allowing gravity to pull the stomach contents down.
 
I know the throat/esophagus can heal - because mine has, and I now get through the night without any pain, especially if we eat early.  But it can take some time, and while it is healing, you have to avoid spicy/acid foods. In fact, in stead of taking ascorbic acid vitamin C (a mild acid) I switched to sodium ascorbate vitamin C which is non acidic.    
 
So you have to avoid acid/irritants going down,  and the stomach contents from coming up. You do this by keeping the sphincter tight, and proper acid in the stomach seems to be key to keeping the sphincter tight - unless there is something else going on.  (IF you remember our friend C., she had a huge hiatal hernia, which was surgically repaired and now she feels great.)
 
Now one other factor in the healing may be due to the low dose prednisone (cortisol replacement) I have been taking (since I figured out that low cortisol production by my adrenals caused all those hospitalizations a few years back.)  Turns out that if you aren't making any cortisol - you die in 24 hours, so everyone is making some.  It is not well recognized, especially by medical doctors, that as we age, like other hormones, we can make less cortisol.
 
Cortisol is THE steroidal Anti Inflammatory (where aspirin is the Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatyr NSAIDS)  It stops and controls inflammation.    Since the GERD pain is from inflammation of the esophagus, the reason mine cleared up my have something to do with restoring my levels to normal.  It is something you could mention to the doc, because a short course of prednisone during the attempt to heal the throat may make it go faster and easier.
 
Got that off my chest.

 



His response

Thank you...thank you ....thank you.   Yes, i play hockey........late at night and then come home and eat something.  There is my problem.

Good info and I still get heartburn during the upright day so not sure how to handle that.  Damn...had chili today.

Gotta knock off those donuts too!


ofonorow wrote:The reason it hurts during the day is that it has been harmed – the botton of your throat near the stomach is raw an inflamed.   When both acid intake and stomach backup are controlled, no acid in the throat near the stomach, it will heal.

Again, I am taking the anti inflammatory prednisone.. That may be what allowed my throat to heal.. hadn't really thought about it healing until seeing you last Sunday.
 
And you should probably have an expert take a look - in case you have a big ulcer/hernia like the friend I mentioned. (She was told hers was "huge" and she feels great after having it repaired.)
 
And don't forget to read that Jonathon Wright book

Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

exitium
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:24 am
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#2  Post by exitium » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:22 pm

Has H. Pylori been ruled out?

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12866
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:19 pm

Not sure I see any connection? He takes vitamin C.

The disorder with heart burn/GERD is at the bottom the throat. H. Pilori is an infection in the acidic stomach. (Might be coincidence, have both issues, but the pressing need for most people is to address the raw and inflamed throat - typical GERD).
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

bbtri
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:48 am
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#4  Post by bbtri » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:45 pm

Eliminating wheat cured my GERD. The very day I eliminated wheat my GERD was gone forever. After 2 months of absolutely no wheat I allowed a little back in my diet, but very little, and I've had no episodes in over a year. There are probably many things that could cause it. I'm glad I found my cure.
On the H Pylori thing I've read that it can make GERD less likely because the bacteria lower stomach acid.

exitium
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:24 am
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#5  Post by exitium » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:52 am

bbtri wrote:On the H Pylori thing I've read that it can make GERD less likely because the bacteria lower stomach acid.


Yea, there are people on both sides of the issue and I dont know if a clear connection has been made but gerd does seem to be an issue for many people with intestinal issues. methyl prednisolone if im not mistakes is a corticosteroid so it will not only reduce inflammation but also hinder the immune response making for a possible interesting intestinal reaction.

As for wheat and your gerd issues, wheat or more specifically gluten, is often demonized while the other school of thought seems to be that food sensitivities are less about the food and your bodies direct reaction to it than how your intestinal pathogens respond to the food and how your body in turn responds to their response (ie excess toxins from pathogens gourging on your food etc).

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12866
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:26 am

methyl prednisolone if im not mistakes is a corticosteroid so it will not only reduce inflammation but also hinder the immune response making for a possible interesting intestinal reaction


He he he. Sorry, I hear this all the time from M.Ds. Fortunately the truth is out there. For anyone who believes this (that corticosteroids hinder immunity, as most doctors I speak with apparently do) you might consider reading William Mck Jefferies SAFE USES OF CORTISOL, 3rd Edition. Fantastic book (at least 2 me, because it completely explained two week long stays in intensive care - that completely fooled the 10+ specialist assigned to my "case.")

As a sanity check, why would cortisol - the only essential hormone - evidenced by the fact that if it is missing for 24 hours you die - "hinder" immunity? Now, if per chance the concentrated form of cortisol such as prednisone or methyl prednisolone does have this property, then take the bio-identical hydrocortizone.

These medical myths about cortisol/prednisone are based on early research that gave dosages more than 10 times what the adrenals normally output! So it is difficult for doctors to separate all the adverse side effects that will result from these huge doses, from the SAFE use of small dosages, i.e., dosages less than what the adrenals themselves would output.

Jefferies starts off the book with the finding (replicated by others) that the Flu (influenza virus) actually turns off cortisol production - leading to the nasty symptoms of the flu. He recommends an ultra high dosage at the onset, something like 100 mg or more (hyrdocortisone) to counter-act the virus. At the correct dosages, cortisol improves immunity, doesn't hinder it. (We can discuss the economics behind these lies that are propagated to and through medical doctors..)

Back to GERD - heart burn. Interesting about the quick reaction to stopping wheat (gluten?) I will mention this to my brother-in-law.

I posted this because most people don't realize this pain from eating is really an inflammation of the lower throat - not stomach. Most people (including my brother-in-law) attack the problem with antacids - which may be precisely the wrong thing to do, given that the sphincter/valve seems to relax when the acidity of the stomach is reduced, leading to the backup of acid stomach contents into the throat, causing the problem
.
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

exitium
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:24 am
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#7  Post by exitium » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:53 am

ofonorow wrote:He he he. Sorry, I hear this all the time from M.Ds. Fortunately the truth is out there. For anyone who believes this (that corticosteroids hinder immunity, as most doctors I speak with apparently do) you might consider reading William Mck Jefferies SAFE USES OF CORTISOL, 3rd Edition. Fantastic book (at least 2 me, because it completely explained two week long stays in intensive care - that completely fooled the 10+ specialist assigned to my "case.").


My opinion on the subject is not only what I have heard from docs but also personal experience. There was a couple times when I was on high dose prednisone for many months at a time (not while hospitalized). I was getting sick all the time. This wasnt an issue at lower doses but certainly played a part when doses got high. Either way, im open to new ideas and science.

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12866
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:59 am

What was the "high dose" exitium - and why were you on a high dosage? Any more than 8-10 mg of prednisone is unsafe for more than a short time - sort of like producing your own elevated cortisol under chronic stress.

The recommended safe dosage - extrapolating from the hydrocortisone discussed in the Jefferies' book - is about half normal adrenal output, or 4 mg.

8-10 mg (prednisone) equals "normal" unstressed daily cortisol output. (Apparently they used to remove adrenal glands from cancer/breast cancer patients, and this is how they determined the "replacement" dosages in the 1950s.)

The message in Jefferies's book is that if a doctor prescribes in the safe range, the adrenal output is reduced, resting the adrenals. (The output of cortisol is tightly controlled by the brain, and is not additive.)

You don't want to stay on full replacement (8-10 mg) for too long as the adrenals would then switch off for lack of work.

Any more than 8-10 mg is unsafe at any speed .. err any real length of time.

But 1, 2 3 or 4 is supposed to be safe in that the adrenals only have to output 1/2 their usual, leaving spare capacity when you do have a stress to combat.

I am curious how much you were taking and why
.
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

exitium
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:24 am
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#9  Post by exitium » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:03 am

ofonorow wrote:What was the "high dose" exitium - and why were you on a high dosage? Any more than 8-10 mg of prednisone is unsafe for more than a short time - sort of like producing your own elevated cortisol under chronic stress.

The recommended safe dosage - extrapolating from the hydrocortisone discussed in the Jefferies' book - is about half normal adrenal output, or 4 mg.

8-10 mg (prednisone) equals "normal" unstressed daily cortisol output. (Apparently they used to remove adrenal glands from cancer/breast cancer patients, and this is how they determined the "replacement" dosages in the 1950s.)

The message in Jefferies's book is that if a doctor prescribes in the safe range, the adrenal output is reduced, resting the adrenals. (The output of cortisol is tightly controlled by the brain, and is not additive.)

You don't want to stay on full replacement (8-10 mg) for too long as the adrenals would then switch off for lack of work.

Any more than 8-10 mg is unsafe at any speed .. err any real length of time.

But 1, 2 3 or 4 is supposed to be safe in that the adrenals only have to output 1/2 their usual, leaving spare capacity when you do have a stress to combat.

I am curious how much you were taking and why
.


On 2 different occasions I was on 50mg or more daily for 6 months or more due to a swelling retina. I also got a cortisone injection in the eye socket at diagnosis to get the ball rolling. Dosage was high to avoid permanent loss of vision and after things appeared to be stable the dosages was slowly decreased over time only to have a flair up and the retina swell again and dosage was bumped back up. This process went on for months as we tried to get off the prednisone.

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12866
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#10  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:50 am

Thank you. Wow. No wonder. Did your face become round or "moon" like?

So 50 mg is something like a 200 mg dosage of hydrocortisone, and yes you would have many things go wrong over six months! Definitely not in the safe range.

I also know (unfortunately from personal experience) that if your natural cortisol output is low (so-called adrenal fatigue), then inflammation begins in various tissues. And, unfortunately, it is not easy to stop the inflammation after it begins. And, unlike aspirin, increasing the cortisol/prednisone dosage does not turn off the inflammation for quite a while !?! e.g. your retinas.

Back to GERD, I am wondering if most people, as they age, become slightly deficient in cortisol, leading to various inflammations, such as the lower esophagus. The saliva test my doctor ordered was spot on correct! (5 samples were taken throughout the day. Only drawback is that I had to stop my prednisone supplementation for a few days), but such a test can be used to suggest proper dosages for people whose adrenals are under achieving.
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12866
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#11  Post by ofonorow » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:08 am

Exitium, I was thinking about the dosage you took (50 mg) for an extended length of time (6 months) , and if you care to relate what happened, that would be interesting. I suspect your blood sugar went through the roof, and if not, how did they control it?
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

exitium
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:24 am
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#12  Post by exitium » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:26 pm

ofonorow wrote:Exitium, I was thinking about the dosage you took (50 mg) for an extended length of time (6 months) , and if you care to relate what happened, that would be interesting. I suspect your blood sugar went through the roof, and if not, how did they control it?


It was approx 14 years ago now, so things are a bit fuzzy but there was no tests or bloodwork done at the time. Prednisone was dished out by eye doc in an effort to make sure I didnt lose my vision. I never saw a regular doc during that time and had no lab work done. Needless to say I felt pretty good for the first week or so, then bloated up nicely, thirsty all the time and was in the bathroom all the time, seemed to get a cold every other week etc.

I had to stop working out after a while because I felt horrible and it took everything I could muster to get out of bed and make it to work and thru the day.

Thats really around the time I just started not feeling myself. Digestion issues, lack of mental focus etc.

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12866
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#13  Post by ofonorow » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:54 pm

Thank you and if doctors had been trained on the safe uses of Cortisol you would never have been given such a dosage.
Needless to say I felt pretty good for the first week or so, then bloated up nicely, thirsty all the time and was in the bathroom all the time, seemed to get a cold every other week etc.


Bloating is common. Thirsty all the time indicates an elevation in blood sugar - lucky you didn't go into a coma. I have also been told that by turning off your adrenals (as this must have) you become dependent.

In my opinion, what you went through was medical malpractice, but it would be hard to win the suit. It is simply another case docs use to justify their "fear" of the evil steroid.

I am glad you brought it up so that readers understand that we inflame if our adrenals are not working right, and as we approach age 50 and beyond, the adrenal output predictably declines and this can be measured, and, if cortisol is in decline, that a simple hormone replacement therapy is all this is required to keep people with all sorts of pain caused by inflammation - pain free.
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

exitium
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:24 am
Contact:

Re: What cured my GERD?

Post Number:#14  Post by exitium » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:09 pm

ofonorow wrote:[color=#000080][b]Bloating is common. Thirsty all the time indicates an elevation in blood sugar - lucky you didn't go into a coma. I have also been told that by turning off your adrenals (as this must have) you become dependent.


Im sure I suffered some damage because of it, just didnt feel right for the longest time, tossed and turned all night, never slept deep enough to dream.

Ive been dabbling with various supplements for the last couple years and doing my best to stay in the gym but had quite frequently seemed to hit walls where I would just crash and burn. Tried all sorts of diet changes from eating super strict no processed foods to a little more lax but still decent, less calories than maintenance and more calories than maintenance. I just could never really get bodyfat down, especially on my abs and chest. Real lean everywhere else.

Then I got afib and started the search for a cure. I started pauling therapy, added in potassium, more magnesium, vit K,E and A as well as iodine/selenium and an "earthing sheet". With the earthing sheet I sleep like a baby, havent slept this good in a decade. With the iodine/selenium (aside from some initial halid detox) the bodyfat is melting off. With the additional magnesium and potassium I notice a nice boost in the gym and now that I have finally kicked that flu bug (or what ever I got) my HRV is back on track and increasing while resting heart rate is seems to be dropping without having as many missed beats. Im hoping with a bit more time my afib will go away and I can stop hitting the walls with my training.


Return to “Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest