Vit C effects on blood glucose levels? Why no lipo reading?

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

The master's thesis was very interesting. I (think) I learned a lot, but it did seem like they said the maximum encapsulation was 30%? (Emek's method is almost 100%).

And there was this sentence:

The possible reasoning proposed by the authors was that since the serum proteins are negatively charged in physiological conditions, they may induce liposome aggregation which may get
entrapped when passing through the liver (18)

I am not sure how much weight to give the first article on liposomal glutathione. The idea of "milky white" liposomes is new, but is it true?

So far, the better theory why liposomes take two hours to be measured carrying vitamin C in the blood, and can last over 10 hours, is that the liver is collecting them. Perhaps then the vitamin is being released slowly from the liver (as if it were being manufactured in liver cells like most animals.)

If something else is going on then the kidneys are not regulating liposomes the same way they regulate ordinary vitamin C.

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

Not to be distracted

Again to summarize what (I think) we have learned from the innocent "my glucose meter isn't measuring liposomal and AA" post that started this.

A) For whatever reasons, liposomal ingested by mouth diluted in water requires 2 to 3 hours before vitamin C blood levels peak. Corollary) Taking liposomal by mouth without water apparently works much faster.

B) We have measured (and the poster verified), that Ascorbic Acid powder by mouth can peak in as little as 15 minutes (but we didn't wait 2 hours to see if there was another "peak").

C) However, it looks like the viscous phospholipids capture any AA powder, preventing rapid absorption into the blood stream (presumably through the stomach lining) when AA and lipo are taken together.

This is all new information (at least to me) and leads to several questions.

1) Why the delay measuring the liposomal C in the blood?

2) Can we even measure liposomal C in the blood between hours 2 and 3 using the glucose (FREESTYLE LITE) meter?

As an aside, Dr. Hickey made the claim in an otherwise wonderful article on Ebola and Vitamin C recently published in the Townsend Letter

Liposomal vitamin C is NOT more effective than IV for fighting acute infections.

He and I are currently discussing this via email. My plan is to turn the correspondence into a letter to the Townsend Letter editor.

In a nutshell, 48-72 grams of vitamin C can cure a cold at its onset (our surefire cure for the common cold) but after it becomes entrenched, my personal experience is that it requires more than 450 grams to control an established cold (and presumably my tissues are saturated with vitamin C.)

His argument against liposomal is based on reasonableness, i.e., an electron is an electron, so it doesn't seem reasonable that much smaller amount of liposomal is more effective than IV. (Note: Not on any clinical data that he has so far cited.)

So if 48 to 450 grams ascorbic acid is required to "cure" a cold, how much sodium ascorbate IV?

Cathcart's answer might be 100 to 250 grams.

Then we have this from Simon in the UK regarding true liposomal vitamin C.

My wife and I and children have personally experienced the benefits and the curing of numerous coughs and colds. It was I that had the uvulitis. I took 8 spoons at once followed by another 4 spoons 3 hours later, and another 4 spoons 3 hours after that, and the infection literally disappeared! Bear in mind that the uvula had nearly tripled in size and I had called an emergency doctor and was preparing to visit my local hospital A&E(ER).

1 spoon equals 1 gram, so a total of 16 spoons (16 grams of liposomal) cured this acute infection!

This is not an isolated case. It may not be "reasonable" but I doubt a 16 gram IV/C would have had the same effect.

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

I will go over the last post in detail later.

1 teaspoon of liposomal contains 1 gram of vitamin C.

The macrophages may in fact explain why the immune system turns into high gear.

But if losing encapsulation - whey the 10 hour extended life in the blood?

But I have seen (and will repost) the pictures of Empirical liposomes in the blood.

Most explanations of liposomes I have reda compare them to (nanosized) bubbles analogous to cells. When two bubbles get close together - they can form a single bubble due to various forces. This is one mechanism proposed that allows transfer contents of liposomes into cells, a merging with the cell membrane.

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

Sigh.. now I have two long posts to respond to.. Regarding the 25% encapsulation - old email/post from Emek Blair.. They require a small amount but add more for nutrition.

The ratio of 400/1000:

The volume of a sphere = (4/3)*pi*radius^3.
Surface area of a sphere = = 4*pi*radius^2

That means that the for a 200 nm particle the volume enclosed is 37 times larger than the surface area of the liposome. That means that you need around 27 mg of PC to encapsulate 1000 mg of vitamin c. We use 400 mg so that people get some phosphatidylcholine nutrition.

Our liposomes remain stable in water due to natural forces. This is due to the high ionic strength (large amount of charge) that is on the inside of the liposome. The outside of the liposome remains stable due to the low amount of charge on the outside which allows the hydrophobic components wanting to be together.

For all of these e-mails, I apologize for using equations and mentioning a lot of very technical concepts briefly. Lipid structuring is what I have been doing for over a decade and these types of questions are extremely complicated. Perhaps you and I should come up with some simplified answers that are still scientifically valid.

What is the scientific backing for the statements that LivOnLabs makes?

Best regards,
Emek

Ergo the claim of 98% encapsulated claim to me based on this means that over 98% of the vitamin C in their (Emek's) liposomal vitamin C product is encapsulated inside a liposome.

Not that 98% of the possible liposomes created contain vitamin C.

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

[Johnwen]

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]