Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote (Cortisol!)

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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#121  Post by ofonorow » Wed May 02, 2012 1:54 am

http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/sharma-dc-etal-indian_j_physiol_pharmacol-1995-v39-n4-p403.htm

...plus all animals make their own vitamin C 24/7, blah blah...

Ok it sounds like 40mg. Is a good dosage for you. What your describing is what your target is. At your proper dosage your discomfort should be just slight come and go type of mild pain. On a 1 to 10 scale a 2 is about right.
This give’s you the ability to see if your making progress. If your pain completely disappears after a couple of weeks at this level it means your body is starting to produce more of it’s own and you can start reducing the dosage. If the pain increases you wait a few days and see if it subsides if not a slight increase or time adjustment maybe needed. As you can see without the slight discomfort you would not have anything to gauge on. Without any pain your body could start coming up and you wouldn’t know it and then other problems could start brewing before you realize anything is going on.
Be patient at first you’ll have good days and bad days it’ll take a week or two to stabilize once you find the right dosage. Which I think you have.
Make sure your consistent on your times and time dosage. 40mg. Is a little on the high side for maintance dosage but I believe once you get your iron levels up you’ll start seeing improvements. This along with having your bug condo’s removed (tonsils). I believe within a year or shorter you’ll be back and better then before.


Yes, and I feel pretty darn good right now! (As long as I have access to some form of cortisol!!) My intention is to find the minimum dosage require to keep me almost symptom free, and it might even be easier than M. Prednisolone because I can be more granular (smaller doses) with hydrocortisone.

But the experience has taught me a great deal about inflammation and how cortisol controls and regulates inflammation. I probably mentioned that I tried putting my wedding band on. After 2 or 3 days, that finger was in extreme pain, while my other nine fingers were fine. It is apparent that any abnormality has a tendency to become inflamed after the body detects something wrong. Early on, my sore throat (tonsils) and sore left arm were the worst. (I tend to sleep mostly on my left side.)

Today, I don't have any part of my body that become inflamed more than any other on a too low cortisol dosage, which apparently means I am in pretty good shape! My body isn't detecting any abnormalities, and perhaps all the IV/C I began taking since October, 2011 has "cleaned out" any remaining toxins?

The pain of RA is horrible and debilitating (it is caused by general inflammation all over the body) and the fact that the pain and swelling is so easy to control amazes me. What amazes me even more is that the knowledge is being kept from rheumatologists! Knowledge that all that is required to completely control this pain is a simple hormone replacement.

And knowledge the psuedo-autoimmune disorders can begin with as little as 5 mg cortisol deficiency (1 mg M. predisolone equivalence)

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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#122  Post by Serdna » Fri May 04, 2012 4:17 am

Sorry if I add a little noise, but from my ignorance it seems improbable that your iron intake is inadequate if you eat red meat with all your vitamin C intake.

I know that Dr. Jack Kruse is not the clearest of the bloggers out there, but I think he is up to something. I like his clinical experience, such as that of Dr. Catchcart or Dr. Davis.

So, I put a pair of links and you decide if you want to explore it further:

Best regards.

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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#123  Post by ofonorow » Fri May 04, 2012 11:03 am

Thank you serdna. I have to study your links. I would tend to agree that my iron intake is probably adequate. I don't think there will be a problem w/the mild iron dosage I have started to supplement.

I now have a question! From the first link, the author claims that "bioidentical cortisol" is preferable to either prednisone or hydrocortisone. I was under the impression that hydrocortisone was the bioidentical cortisol?! So now I am confused. But this is a great article. Thanks.

I am interested in any and all ways to restart my own adrenal production of cortisol.

Regarding the second link, I found this confusing.

Studies have shown that exposure to high levels of polychromatic (white) light (80lux at the cornea) in the morning, but not in the evening, could increase cortisol levels in humans. It appears the intensity of light is critical to the real effect on cortisol levels. Studies have also shown that morning light can increase heart rate, suggesting an impact of light on the autonomic nervous system that modulates cortisol release from the adrenal gland. More recent studies have shown bright light to dramatically reduces cortisol levels in humans. (Second Cite)




For the record, even 45 mg of hydrocortisone is not doing the job of 8 mg methyl prednisolone. I am now up to 50 mg daily, still have swollen fingers, sore knuckles
.
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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#124  Post by gofanu » Fri May 04, 2012 4:26 pm

Owen-
The offer/invitation I sent a few months ago stands.

FRM

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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#125  Post by ofonorow » Tue May 22, 2012 12:51 am

Curiouser and curiouser. The latest news in the never ending story is that I was feeling very good until a few days ago. Developed an intense thirst, blury vision, and I finally measured my fasting glucose yesterday.

It was 377.

My Alt. doc yesterday changed me back to methyl prednisolone. Also prescribed metformin, but hopes that a form of chromium (Reacted Chromium - Chromium Nicotinate Glycinate Chelate) would help and I might not need the metformin. (Thinking is that I was taking too much hydrocortisone). My 2 hour post meal reading last night was off the scale of my new glucose meter (greater than 500 mg/dl) so I took the metformin, and today I started 600 mg R-Alpha Lipoic acid.

My fasting glucose this a.m. after eating very little yesterday was 306.

Doc took a lot of blood yesterday, so I may know something about the insulin levels today. (My wayward pancreas?)
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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#126  Post by Jacquie » Tue May 22, 2012 4:22 am

I hope your doc told you that elevated blood sugar is a common side effect of long-term steroid use. Glucocorticoids (like cortisol/hydrocortisone, prednisone, prednisolone, methylprenisolone) are named after this effect, one of their primary jobs in the body: to raise blood sugar levels during the "fight or flight" response so that plenty of fuel is available to fight or flight with.

The many side effects of steroids are basically why NSAIDS (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs, like Tylenol, Advil, Aleve) were invented. Their primary virtue being that they are Not Steroids, and thus avoid their side effects. For short-term/emergency anti-inflammatory effects, nothing in conventional medicine beats steroids*, but because they essentially shut down your body's self-maintenance, they tend to be Very Bad for long-term use.

(Interestingly, ascorbate tends to counteract most steroid side effects.)


*Any docs here that have used it, how does IVC measure up against steroids for emergency anti-inflammatory effect?

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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#127  Post by ofonorow » Wed May 23, 2012 1:18 am

Thank you jacquie. In fact that warning was why I resisted the "steroid" IV in the hospital.

But my reasoning (besides the complete cessation of R. A. pain on prednisone!) was that if I am not producing my own cortisol - than a replacement dose wouldn't affect blood sugar any more than my own cortisol. And yes, when we are under stress, the adrenals release more cortisol, and one effect is raising blood sugar.

Back to my case. I have evidence that my own cortisol production has restarted somehow (maybe the iron?) leading to this high blood sugar. The evidence is that I cut the methyl prednisolone in half yesterday to 4 mg. (I had found that 6 mg would lead to RA inflammation) and so far this morning, very little joint pain. (I know there is a delay factor) but today I am reducing to 2 mg m. prednisolone.

If I am able to get down to 2 or 1 mg or 0mg w/out pain, it means that my own cortisol restarted, and my high blood sugar is/was because I probably had twice the amount of cortisol that I should have.

I am trying to think back about how somebody going through this would tell that their own cortisol restarted? Cynically, like a few other things in medicine, perhaps the idea that high cortisol depresses adrenal output is false, maybe the 50-55 mg of hydrocortisone somehow stimulated (rather than depressed) my cortisol. Or maybe it was the iron. My first clue was excessive thirst and blurred vision.
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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#128  Post by Johnwen » Wed May 23, 2012 4:03 am

Nice job Jacquie!
I would add, blocks the burning of fat and turns unused sugars into mid section fat (beer belly).

how somebody going through this would tell that their own cortisol restarted?


Symptoms: Sudden weight gain, Rise in BP, Rise in daily average body temprature to more like the 98.6 area, Morning hyper feeling with late day Blahs!
CAUTION:
DO NOT Drop your ROIDS DOSEAGE SUDDENLY. THey MUST be reduced gradually over a period of time or all can and will be lost again not to mention the pain YOU WILL EXPERIENCE!
HOLD EACH DOSEAGE STEP AT LEAST 4DAYS MIN.!!!

Do some mild excerise Walking, biking a little gym etc.

Remember the body builders Saying!
AS I Xercise=Success

Anabolic steroids + Insulin + Excerise= BODY MASS
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#129  Post by ofonorow » Thu May 24, 2012 4:13 am

Johnwen - thank you, I value your advice, but I admit the "uncontrollable" blood sugar has me more worried than dropping the pred. dosage, since I can usually feel (e.g. joint pain) the difference between a milligram or two methyl prednisolone. (And what if my own cortisol has restarted? I was under stress a few weeks ago, business related, and maybe my brain sent a signal that my adrenals reacted to?)

Before I read your post, I reduced the dosage from 50-55 mg hydrocortisone to 4 mg predisone - in one day - and there was no RA pain! Yesterday, (unknowingly) violating your advice, I reduced to 2 mg methyl prednisolone, and today all the RA symptoms started coming back, fairly mild though, so I am guessing that 2 mg is probably my current floor (or 1/4 of my previous "normal" of 8 mg m. p.)

So keeping your 4 day advice in mind, I have to balance that my morning fasting blood sugars have been:

Mon 311 mg/dl (Started Metformin 500 mg Mon evening.)
Tue 306 mg/dl 4 mg m. prednisolone
Wed 328 mg/dl 2 mg. m. pred. (no RA pain after yesterdays 1/2 dosage (4 mg))
Tus 305 mg/dl 1 mg (so far) (mild but widely distributed RA pains)

I googled that it can take a few days to a week for the blood sugar to return to normal after completely stopping prednisone.

So my idea was to balance joint/RA pain with my fasting blood sugar. (I had thought that I would
try to get the blood sugar under 120, perhaps taking less M. P. than I require for normalcy.)

p.s. I have been exercising! (Walking plus work on a Bowflex) daily.
Regarding:
THey MUST be reduced gradually over a period of time or all can and will be lost again not to mention the pain YOU WILL EXPERIENCE!


I'd like to understand what you mean by "all can and will be lost again". By stopping???


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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#130  Post by ofonorow » Thu May 24, 2012 6:24 am

Got Monday's blood/lab report (apparently the more esoteric tests will take longer. I don't see insulin)

The doc didn't like the high glucose (5 hours after my last meal) and the "high estradiol" (which I don't see on this report)

Glucose, Serum 349
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 21 High (range 9-20)
Chloride, Serum 96 Low (range 97-108)
Bilirubin, Total 1.3 High (range 0-1.2)
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 14 Low (range 25-150) something for me to google...
RDW 16.1 High (range 11.7 - 15.0)

Other measures.

Doc thought my vitamin D is low 45.8 (range 30 - 100) Take 2000 iu pills plus daily sunshine

And the iron readings are as follows

Iron Bin. Cap. (TIBC) 261 (ranted 250-450)
UIBC 213 (range 150-375)
Iron, Serum 48 ((range 40 - 155)
Iron Saturation 18 ( range 15-55)

If there is any other number of interest johnwen - let me know. Thx!



added
A decreased serum alkaline phosphatase may be due to:

Zinc deficiency.
Hypothyroidism.
Vitamin C deficiency/Scurvy.
Folic acid deficiency.
Excess Vitamin D intake.
Low phosphorus levels (hypophosphatasia)
Celiac disease.
Malnutrition with low protein assimilation (including low stomach acid production/hypochlorhydria).
Insufficient Parathyroid gland function.
Pernicious anemia
Vitamin B6 insufficiency
---

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/alkaline_phosphatase.html

Also, I am in the middle of a book about cortisol (Adrenal Fatigue - The 21st Century Stress Syndrome) by James Wilson. (I don't recommend the book, and it is written from the standpoint of how to reduce cortisol in stressed out people.) On page 138 he makes the following statement:
Conversely, foods high in potassium such as fruit (esp. bananas) make adrenal fatigue worse.


His claim is that potassium is not good for people with adrenal fatigue. I wonder why?
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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#131  Post by Johnwen » Fri May 25, 2012 4:44 am

If there is any other number of interest johnwen - let me know. Thx!


Like to see the following.
HGB (hemoglobin)
HCT (Hematocrit)
Report of Urea Nitrogen if provided BUN is calculated from this and Bilirubin sometimes they don't report these or only report one.
The minerals Sodium, Potassium, Calcium.
Also if they did an Anion Gap

I'd like to understand what you mean by "all can and will be lost again". By stopping???

http://arthritis.about.com/cs/steroids/ ... oids_2.htm
Read about stopping towards end
Last edited by Johnwen on Fri May 25, 2012 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#132  Post by Johnwen » Fri May 25, 2012 4:52 am

His claim is that potassium is not good for people with adrenal fatigue. I wonder why?



http://www.livestrong.com/article/27557 ... l-disease/

http://www.uptodate.com/contents/hypona ... ufficiency

Alkaline Phosphatase,


http://ard.bmj.com/content/29/5/537.full.pdf

Rather then writing a book I let my fingers do the walking there's some good info in these links
Hope they clear up some the questions your seeking answers to.
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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#133  Post by ofonorow » Fri May 25, 2012 5:33 am

Thank you!
Re: reason for stopping

Corticosteroids must be gradually reduced so as to permit the adrenal glands to resume natural cortisol production. Eliminating doses too quickly can result in adrenal crisis (a life-threatening state caused by insufficient levels of cortisol).


Ah, yes of course - if I weren't making my own cortisol. But what other explanation is there?



Like to see the following.
HGB (hemoglobin)
HCT (Hematocrit)
Report of Urea Nitrogen if provided BUN is calculated from this and Bilirubin sometimes they don't report these or only report one.
The minerals Sodium, Potassium, Calcium.
Also if they did an Anion Gap


HGB (hemoglobin) 14.3 (range 12.5 - 17)
HCT (hematocrit) 42.1 (range 36 - 50)
BUN 23 (6-24)
Creatinine, Serum 1.08 (range 0.76-1.27)
Sodium 138 ( range 134-144)
Potassium, Serum 4.0 (range 3.5 - 5-2)
Calcium, Serum 9.0 (range 8.7-10.2)
Phosphorus, Serum 3.5 (range 2.5 -4.5)

As I mentioned here or elsewhere - medical internet writers say that two of my blood patterns,
low Alkaline Phosphatase, S, and High RDW+Normal MCV may mean vitamin B12 deficiency.
Aunt/brother with pernicious anemia so I started the B12 Patch yesterday.

Fasting blood sugar today down to 266.

And I did find a gold mine - the authoritative landmark book by William Mck. Jefferies entitled SAFE USES OF CORTISOL. Just started, but I want to copy/paste almost every other paragraph. (I am going to send a copy with a note to my rheumatologist). Now that I know how cortisol "works" from personal observation, I do not find it strange that the flu virus works by attacking the brains output of ACTH! (Hormone that regulates/stimulates cortisol) So the flu turns off cortisol! (This would mean that the optimal flu therapy would be a few doses of prednisone/cortisol!!)

I'll discuss this book more in a new topic called cortisol I started.
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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#134  Post by Johnwen » Sat May 26, 2012 4:29 am

Glucose, Serum 349
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 21 High (range 9-20)
Chloride, Serum 96 Low (range 97-108)
Bilirubin, Total 1.3 High (range 0-1.2)
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 14 Low (range 25-150) something for me to google...
RDW 16.1 High (range 11.7 - 15.0)

This looks about right for a person on roid’s! Basically a little more then the body requires.

Iron Bin. Cap. (TIBC) 261 (ranted 250-450)
UIBC 213 (range 150-375)
Iron, Serum 48 ((range 40 - 155)
Iron Saturation 18 ( range 15-55)

These are excellent readings, maintain whatever your doing. Like supplementing your iron, However your doing it.


HGB (hemoglobin) 14.3 (range 12.5 - 17)
HCT (hematocrit) 42.1 (range 36 - 50)
BUN 23 (6-24)
Creatinine, Serum 1.08 (range 0.76-1.27)
Sodium 138 ( range 134-144)
Potassium, Serum 4.0 (range 3.5 - 5-2)
Calcium, Serum 9.0 (range 8.7-10.2)
Phosphorus, Serum 3.5 (range 2.5 -4.5)

HGB, I would Like to see Between 14.5 and 15 g/dL but this is progress, As above Keep going on the iron.
Bun is a little high! Are you supplementing any kind of Protein drink or tab?? If not could be roid’s.
Bottom LINE: Looks like you could use a little more water consumption during the course of your day especially while on the roid’s!

On B12 patch make sure you follow directions. Most patch’s are on one day and off one week. Don’t over do it!!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Post Number:#135  Post by ofonorow » Sat May 26, 2012 5:25 am

Thanks! My currnent thinking is that, ironically, the stress of not finding a doctor to prescribe prednisone -and that WAS stressful! - may be the reason my adrenals are now working, at least partially. Raised the ACTH set point so that my hydrocortisone overdose was still not enough to suppress the adrenals!
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