Vitamin C Forum

Posted: **Fri May 04, 2012 4:17 am**

Sorry if I add a little noise, but from my ignorance it seems improbable that your iron intake is inadequate if you eat red meat with all your vitamin C intake.

I know that Dr. Jack Kruse is not the clearest of the bloggers out there, but I think he is up to something. I like his clinical experience, such as that of Dr. Catchcart or Dr. Davis.

So, I put a pair of links and you decide if you want to explore it further:

Best regards.

Posted: **Fri May 04, 2012 11:03 am**

Thank you serdna. I have to study your links. I would tend to agree that my iron intake is probably adequate. I don't think there will be a problem w/the mild iron dosage I have started to supplement.

I now have a question! From the first link, the author claims that "bioidentical cortisol" is preferable to either prednisone or hydrocortisone. I was under the impression that hydrocortisone was the bioidentical cortisol?! So now I am confused. But this is a great article. Thanks.

I am interested in any and all ways to restart my own adrenal production of cortisol.

Regarding the second link, I found this confusing.

Studies have shown that exposure to high levels of polychromatic (white) light (80lux at the cornea) in the morning, but not in the evening, could increase cortisol levels in humans. It appears the intensity of light is critical to the real effect on cortisol levels. Studies have also shown that morning light can increase heart rate, suggesting an impact of light on the autonomic nervous system that modulates cortisol release from the adrenal gland. More recent studies have shown bright light to dramatically reduces cortisol levels in humans. (Second Cite)

For the record, even 45 mg of hydrocortisone is not doing the job of 8 mg methyl prednisolone. I am now up to 50 mg daily, still have swollen fingers, sore knuckles.

Posted: **Fri May 04, 2012 4:26 pm**

Owen-
The offer/invitation I sent a few months ago stands.

FRM

Posted: **Tue May 22, 2012 12:51 am**

Curiouser and curiouser. The latest news in the never ending story is that I was feeling very good until a few days ago. Developed an intense thirst, blury vision, and I finally measured my fasting glucose yesterday.

It was 377.

My Alt. doc yesterday changed me back to methyl prednisolone. Also prescribed metformin, but hopes that a form of chromium (Reacted Chromium - Chromium Nicotinate Glycinate Chelate) would help and I might not need the metformin. (Thinking is that I was taking too much hydrocortisone). My 2 hour post meal reading last night was off the scale of my new glucose meter (greater than 500 mg/dl) so I took the metformin, and today I started 600 mg R-Alpha Lipoic acid.

My fasting glucose this a.m. after eating very little yesterday was 306.

Doc took a lot of blood yesterday, so I may know something about the insulin levels today. (My wayward pancreas?)

Posted: **Tue May 22, 2012 4:22 am**

I hope your doc told you that elevated blood sugar is a common side effect of long-term steroid use. Glucocorticoids (like cortisol/hydrocortisone, prednisone, prednisolone, methylprenisolone) are named after this effect, one of their primary jobs in the body: to raise blood sugar levels during the "fight or flight" response so that plenty of fuel is available to fight or flight with.

The many side effects of steroids are basically why NSAIDS (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs, like Tylenol, Advil, Aleve) were invented. Their primary virtue being that they are Not Steroids, and thus avoid their side effects. For short-term/emergency anti-inflammatory effects, nothing in conventional medicine beats steroids*, but because they essentially shut down your body's self-maintenance, they tend to be Very Bad for long-term use.

(Interestingly, ascorbate tends to counteract most steroid side effects.)

*Any docs here that have used it, how does IVC measure up against steroids for emergency anti-inflammatory effect?

Posted: **Wed May 23, 2012 1:18 am**

Thank you jacquie. In fact that warning was why I resisted the "steroid" IV in the hospital.

But my reasoning (besides the complete cessation of R. A. pain on prednisone!) was that if I am not producing my own cortisol - than a replacement dose wouldn't affect blood sugar any more than my own cortisol. And yes, when we are under stress, the adrenals release more cortisol, and one effect is raising blood sugar.

Back to my case. I have evidence that my own cortisol production has restarted somehow (maybe the iron?) leading to this high blood sugar. The evidence is that I cut the methyl prednisolone in half yesterday to 4 mg. (I had found that 6 mg would lead to RA inflammation) and so far this morning, very little joint pain. (I know there is a delay factor) but today I am reducing to 2 mg m. prednisolone.

If I am able to get down to 2 or 1 mg or 0mg w/out pain, it means that my own cortisol restarted, and my high blood sugar is/was because I probably had twice the amount of cortisol that I should have.

I am trying to think back about how somebody going through this would tell that their own cortisol restarted? Cynically, like a few other things in medicine, perhaps the idea that high cortisol depresses adrenal output is false, maybe the 50-55 mg of hydrocortisone somehow stimulated (rather than depressed) my cortisol. Or maybe it was the iron. My first clue was excessive thirst and blurred vision.

Posted: **Wed May 23, 2012 4:03 am**

Nice job Jacquie!
I would add, blocks the burning of fat and turns unused sugars into mid section fat (beer belly).

how somebody going through this would tell that their own cortisol restarted?

Symptoms: Sudden weight gain, Rise in BP, Rise in daily average body temprature to more like the 98.6 area, Morning hyper feeling with late day Blahs!
CAUTION:
DO NOT Drop your ROIDS DOSEAGE SUDDENLY. THey MUST be reduced gradually over a period of time or all can and will be lost again not to mention the pain YOU WILL EXPERIENCE!
HOLD EACH DOSEAGE STEP AT LEAST 4DAYS MIN.!!!

Do some mild excerise Walking, biking a little gym etc.

Remember the body builders Saying!
AS I Xercise=Success

Anabolic steroids + Insulin + Excerise= BODY MASS

Posted: **Thu May 24, 2012 4:13 am**

Johnwen - thank you, I value your advice, but I admit the "uncontrollable" blood sugar has me more worried than dropping the pred. dosage, since I can usually feel (e.g. joint pain) the difference between a milligram or two methyl prednisolone. (And what if my own cortisol has restarted? I was under stress a few weeks ago, business related, and maybe my brain sent a signal that my adrenals reacted to?)

Before I read your post, I reduced the dosage from 50-55 mg hydrocortisone to 4 mg predisone - in one day - and there was no RA pain! Yesterday, (unknowingly) violating your advice, I reduced to 2 mg methyl prednisolone, and today all the RA symptoms started coming back, fairly mild though, so I am guessing that 2 mg is probably my current floor (or 1/4 of my previous "normal" of 8 mg m. p.)

So keeping your 4 day advice in mind, I have to balance that my morning fasting blood sugars have been:

Mon 311 mg/dl (Started Metformin 500 mg Mon evening.)
Tue 306 mg/dl 4 mg m. prednisolone
Wed 328 mg/dl 2 mg. m. pred. (no RA pain after yesterdays 1/2 dosage (4 mg))
Tus 305 mg/dl 1 mg (so far) (mild but widely distributed RA pains)

I googled that it can take a few days to a week for the blood sugar to return to normal after completely stopping prednisone.

So my idea was to balance joint/RA pain with my fasting blood sugar. (I had thought that I would
try to get the blood sugar under 120, perhaps taking less M. P. than I require for normalcy.)

p.s. I have been exercising! (Walking plus work on a Bowflex) daily.
Regarding:

THey MUST be reduced gradually over a period of time or all can and will be lost again not to mention the pain YOU WILL EXPERIENCE!

I'd like to understand what you mean by "all can and will be lost again". By stopping???

Posted: **Thu May 24, 2012 6:24 am**

Got Monday's blood/lab report (apparently the more esoteric tests will take longer. I don't see insulin)

The doc didn't like the high glucose (5 hours after my last meal) and the "high estradiol" (which I don't see on this report)

Glucose, Serum 349
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 21 High (range 9-20)
Chloride, Serum 96 Low (range 97-108)
Bilirubin, Total 1.3 High (range 0-1.2)
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 14 Low (range 25-150) something for me to google...
RDW 16.1 High (range 11.7 - 15.0)

Other measures.

Doc thought my vitamin D is low 45.8 (range 30 - 100) Take 2000 iu pills plus daily sunshine

And the iron readings are as follows

Iron Bin. Cap. (TIBC) 261 (ranted 250-450)
UIBC 213 (range 150-375)
Iron, Serum 48 ((range 40 - 155)
Iron Saturation 18 ( range 15-55)

If there is any other number of interest johnwen - let me know. Thx!

added

A decreased serum alkaline phosphatase may be due to:

Zinc deficiency.
Hypothyroidism.
Vitamin C deficiency/Scurvy.
Folic acid deficiency.
Excess Vitamin D intake.
Low phosphorus levels (hypophosphatasia)
Celiac disease.
Malnutrition with low protein assimilation (including low stomach acid production/hypochlorhydria).
Insufficient Parathyroid gland function.
Pernicious anemia
Vitamin B6 insufficiency
---

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/alkaline_phosphatase.html

Also, I am in the middle of a book about cortisol (Adrenal Fatigue - The 21st Century Stress Syndrome) by James Wilson. (I don't recommend the book, and it is written from the standpoint of how to reduce cortisol in stressed out people.) On page 138 he makes the following statement:

Conversely, foods high in potassium such as fruit (esp. bananas) make adrenal fatigue worse.

His claim is that potassium is not good for people with adrenal fatigue. I wonder why?

Posted: **Fri May 25, 2012 4:44 am**

If there is any other number of interest johnwen - let me know. Thx!

Like to see the following.
HGB (hemoglobin)
HCT (Hematocrit)
Report of Urea Nitrogen if provided BUN is calculated from this and Bilirubin sometimes they don't report these or only report one.
The minerals Sodium, Potassium, Calcium.
Also if they did an Anion Gap

I'd like to understand what you mean by "all can and will be lost again". By stopping???

http://arthritis.about.com/cs/steroids/ ... oids_2.htm
Read about stopping towards end

Posted: **Fri May 25, 2012 4:52 am**

His claim is that potassium is not good for people with adrenal fatigue. I wonder why?

http://www.livestrong.com/article/27557 ... l-disease/

http://www.uptodate.com/contents/hypona ... ufficiency

Alkaline Phosphatase,

http://ard.bmj.com/content/29/5/537.full.pdf

Rather then writing a book I let my fingers do the walking there's some good info in these links
Hope they clear up some the questions your seeking answers to.

Posted: **Fri May 25, 2012 5:33 am**

Thank you!
Re: reason for stopping

Corticosteroids must be gradually reduced so as to permit the adrenal glands to resume natural cortisol production. Eliminating doses too quickly can result in adrenal crisis (a life-threatening state caused by insufficient levels of cortisol).

Ah, yes of course - if I weren't making my own cortisol. But what other explanation is there?

Like to see the following.
HGB (hemoglobin)
HCT (Hematocrit)
Report of Urea Nitrogen if provided BUN is calculated from this and Bilirubin sometimes they don't report these or only report one.
The minerals Sodium, Potassium, Calcium.
Also if they did an Anion Gap

HGB (hemoglobin) 14.3 (range 12.5 - 17)
HCT (hematocrit) 42.1 (range 36 - 50)
BUN 23 (6-24)
Creatinine, Serum 1.08 (range 0.76-1.27)
Sodium 138 ( range 134-144)
Potassium, Serum 4.0 (range 3.5 - 5-2)
Calcium, Serum 9.0 (range 8.7-10.2)
Phosphorus, Serum 3.5 (range 2.5 -4.5)

As I mentioned here or elsewhere - medical internet writers say that two of my blood patterns,
low Alkaline Phosphatase, S, and High RDW+Normal MCV may mean vitamin B12 deficiency.
Aunt/brother with pernicious anemia so I started the B12 Patch yesterday.

Fasting blood sugar today down to 266.

And I did find a gold mine - the authoritative landmark book by William Mck. Jefferies entitled SAFE USES OF CORTISOL. Just started, but I want to copy/paste almost every other paragraph. (I am going to send a copy with a note to my rheumatologist). Now that I know how cortisol "works" from personal observation, I do not find it strange that the flu virus works by attacking the brains output of ACTH! (Hormone that regulates/stimulates cortisol) So the flu turns off cortisol! (This would mean that the optimal flu therapy would be a few doses of prednisone/cortisol!!)

I'll discuss this book more in a new topic called cortisol I started.

Posted: **Sat May 26, 2012 4:29 am**

Posted: **Sat May 26, 2012 5:25 am**

Thanks! My currnent thinking is that, ironically, the stress of not finding a doctor to prescribe prednisone -and that WAS stressful! - may be the reason my adrenals are now working, at least partially. Raised the ACTH set point so that my hydrocortisone overdose was still not enough to suppress the adrenals!

Vitamin C Forum

Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote (Cortisol!)

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote

Re: Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote