gofanu wrote:If I read pamojja's schedule at all correctly, its fair but
deficient in some things, and the price appalls, the complexity and
worry astonishes, and it sounds like it doesn't work too well either.
Now, I have a headache and need some drugs! (Another 5gm C, 4
drops Lugol's, and a Cal/Mag/Zinc, and a cup of coffee)
gofanu wrote:I suggest that everybody forget about poorly (mis)
understood things like "half life" and attend to their food - actual
food that real people have been eating for 10,000 years.
gofanu wrote:That vitamin K review is splendid. Don't have time
to study it now, but at a quick look, K1 is a whole lot more useful
than earlier sources said. And extremely cheap. I am taking 100mcg
"because that is all the body can use" = not true. Change soonish!
skyorbit wrote:PS. Where do you guys get megadose Vitamin A?
majkinetor wrote:K1 has bioavailability of 300 mcg / day. Its not very useful to supplement it, especially if you eat a lot plant foods.
skyorbit wrote:This thread said that MK-7 has a near 100% absorption rate.
It also said the max k1 the body can absorb a day is about 300 mcg. Several of the other study's I've read also says that after a while k1 levels in the blood plateau (including the PDF http://www.medicine.wisc.edu/~williams/ ... w_2008.pdf pamojja showed me) so it seems to me there's plenty of evidence that k1 has significant diminishing returns while k2 really doesn't. Or at least none that we've detected so far.
skyorbit wrote:PS. Where do you guys get megadose Vitamin A?
Cod, liver, canned
Content pr. 100 g Unit Content
saturated fatty acids g 11.6
monounsaturated fatty acids g 25.6
polyunsaturated fatty acids g 14.1
Vitamin A retinol µg 5100
Vitamin D µg 100
Dorschleber Konserve in Öl
Inhaltsstoff Menge Einheit
Ges. Fettsäuren 17.469 g
einfach unges. Fettsäuren 42.384 g
mehrf. unges. Fettsäuren 14.535 g
Vitamin A Retinol 13.815 mg
Vitamin D 180.5 µg
skyorbit wrote:pamojja wrote:Vitamin K2 Complex w/ K1 - 90 Capsules - $17.56 (on special sale now: buy 2 get 3 - but already sold out at the moment
500 mcg of MK-7 and MK-4 each, 1 mg of K1
I went ahead and got one of each of these.
gofanu wrote:pamojja V-C as ascorbic acid crystals is $.025/gm, so my current 20gm/day is $0.50 of my present personal total.
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15 g Ascorbic acid C - ascorbic acid Puritan 3162 15gm (20)
750 mg Magnesium Mg - Mag oxide Pur 5537 500mg min 750 usual (1000)
25 mg Iodine Lugol's 5% 4drop- 25mg I, (20drop-100mg)
400 mcg Selenium Selenium 200mcg Pur 3204 2x/day (4)
50 mg B1, B2, B7, B8 B50 Pur 585 1x (2+)
550 mg Pantothenic Acid Pantothenic acid B5 Pur 6060 1x 500 mg (usual 4x/day but up to 20% of C= 5gm )
550 mg Niacinamide Niacinamide 500mg Pur 730 1x (2-4x)
2000 mcg Folic Acid Folic acid Pur 2845 2x (4x)
150 mg Pyridoxine B6 Pur 650 1x (2-4x)
1050 mcg Cyanocobalamin B12 Pur 1383 1x
550 mg PABA PABA Pur 2920 1x (2x)
40.000 IU A A10.000/D400 Pur 4993 4x (8x)
9.600 IU D3 D3 Pur 17618 4x (8x)
800 IU E E Pur 543 2x (4x)
100 mcg K1 K1 Pur 3070 1x
50 mcg K2 K2 Pur 29680 1x
310 mg Choline Choline bitartrate Pur 700 1x
100 mg Ubiquinone Co Q10 Pur 15593 1x
600 mg ALA ALA Pur 17967 1x
50 mg Zinc Zn Pur 2063 1x
1,000 mg Ca, 400 mg Mg, 25 mg Zc Cal-Mag-Zinc Pur 4293 (as needed for pain or damaged tissue repair (muscle tears etc), with C, Panto, B6 - my sole pain treatment for the past 11 years, rarely needed now, great sleeping pill if you need that, but you will not after a while on the above!
gofanu wrote:Took about 30 gm C and 2 gm panto one day (up from my then usual 15gm/day & 500 mg) for some thing daughter brought home from school. Feet got really warm a half hour later. Unpleasant pain and fatigue (for about a year, after walking uphill briskly) in legs disappeared forever. Realized later it had a name - PAD, and was now long gone.
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[quote]It might be good if "somebody" could and/or would separate this stuff out into a useful and durable archive of such information.
(I am trying to comment in a different colour, but I do not understand this system. Which is too stupid to display the colour real time. ( ) as backup)[/quote]
It might be good if "somebody" could and/or would separate this stuff out into a useful and durable archive of such information.
(I am trying to comment in a different colour, but I do not understand this system. Which is too stupid to display the colour real time. ( ) as backup)
gofanu wrote:We both have a few errors re amounts
gofanu wrote:(Actually, as I have detailed previously, my retinol intake was for years until recently at 80,000IU to prevent symptoms I was aware of. I have been able to reduce it to 40,000 since drastically increasing my iodine/selenium, which spares E & A by preventing/correcting lipid peroxidation - a good thing I think. Again, I buy no tests, all is based on observed symptoms and logic - 100 % success rate on the logic so far. It is possible that your D3 measured drop is a result of either better utilization or better control of D3 synthesis/use due to A making adrenal/hormone/cholesterol control work better - as will iodine/selenium. Vitamin A alone is involved in the regulation of 1/6 of the entire proteome - the total production of proteins AND ALL their interactions.)
gofanu wrote:I was outvoted, so niacinamide it is, and I just have not changed back
gofanu wrote:I have a running-in-background personal program to develop an "emergency sources list" for when we can no longer buy anything we want or need. V-C is pretty easy, some herbs and spruce trees!
gofanu wrote:Now I am tired and another night behind schedule!
gofanu wrote:The Ca amounts required are often claimed to be 2x the Mg, hence the tab proportions, but this is wrong/backwards, as Abraham so eloquently showed. It should at least be 1Ca - 2 Mg.
pamojja wrote:Beside you're giving priority to most essential nutrients (while I got so much side-tracked of what I heart what might help for certain indications in some cases, and therefore ended up with so much more complexity)gofanu wrote:AND COST!!!
gofanu wrote:(Which was my basic point with you AND virtually everybody else in the "Nutrition Nuts" camp. I am paid in full myself! The esoteric hormones, enzymes, and other "Majic Potions" also introduce problems by possibly bypassing body control mechanisms. Further, these things are a major and valid arguing point for the evil forces of anti nutrition - as in who the hell can spend E15/day (or much more) on supplements?. That is over 80% of my entire present income.)
gofanu wrote:Which puts us right back at my starting point of "you must go by symptom" not formula.
Since B vitamins are water soluble, they are generally safe in much higher than needed dosage, although it is possible for too much of one to create effective deficiencies of another, hence the attempt to keep some balance, but it is not generally very fussy.
gofanu wrote:PABA does a bunch, and was formerly used up to 20gm/day for all sorts of stuff. ... The 500 mg is a rough approximation of Adelle's proportions, given the B50 baseline.)
For you, I suggest you read anything of Kilmer McCully on plaque, and JTA Ely on diabetes, and add in all I have said.)
gofanu wrote:..I found the choline which I had never taken because of cost, but had gotten for my wife in her illness. Adelle said you needed a lot of choline, but we never had the cash. One capsule and a half hour later my feet were again sensibly toasty, and have been since. So you might try high dose choline with your PAD. And a LOT of eggs, the primary source of dietary choline by far. People have been given bizarre diets as 24 egg yolks a day for a year, without cholesterol increase = Lecithin = choline.
What to do – and not do – about high cholesterol
Chris Masterjohn: .. So, the first thing that we need to understand is that there are good reasons and bad reasons for increases in cholesterol in the blood. So, one of the reasons that cholesterol can increase is if we’re clearing lipids from the liver. Let’s say, for example, that a person has nonalcoholic fatty liver disease and they start resolving it. Well, one of the key problems with fatty liver disease is that the lipids get stuck in the liver and they’re not being released into the bloodstream, so once you start clearing that, part of what may happen is you may get an increase in triglycerides, and you may get an increase in cholesterol in the blood. And that is a good thing because nonalcoholic fatty liver disease is not only very dangerous for the liver, but it’s actually a much stronger predictor of cardiovascular disease risk. And this is a currently emerging field, but there is one study that was done in Japanese people, and they just looked at a number of a Japanese population that was apparently healthy, and they looked to see if they had fatty liver or not, and then they followed them over a number of years. And they found that fatty liver disease increased the risk of cardiovascular disease by over fivefold; whereas, LDL cholesterol predicted it somewhat, but the study wasn’t even statistically powerful enough to make that connection to LDL cholesterol statistically significant. And then when they incorporated LDL cholesterol and metabolic syndrome in a statistical analysis, they found that LDL cholesterol and metabolic syndrome, neither of those were even significant, and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease raised the risk of cardiovascular disease by about threefold or fourfold for men and about fourteenfold for women. So, if we’re clearing lipids from the liver, then this is a good thing.
Chris Kresser: Yeah, that’s a pretty phenomenal statistic there, especially in light of some of the estimates that I’ve seen that up to one in three Americans have nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, which would really go a ways to explaining the cardiovascular disease epidemic.
Chris Masterjohn: Absolutely.
Chris Kresser: So, you’ve written about this, Chris, what you were just talking about in terms of switching to a Primal/Paleo type of diet and the lipids going up because the fatty liver is sort of unpacking itself. And you’ve written about this extensively that choline is one of the nutrients that makes that possible, so can you say a little bit more about that?
Chris Masterjohn: Sure. So, the best sources of choline are liver and egg yolks. There are also a number of other nutrients such as folate, for example, that reduces the need for choline. So, it you’re increasing your intake of liver, egg yolks, and leafy green vegetables — you know, a general increase in nutrient density in your diet — it’s very likely that if you do have fatty liver you are going to contribute to its resolution, because choline is the key nutrient that is needed to package the fats in the liver and export them into the bloodstream so they can be metabolized by other tissues...
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