Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

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majkinetor
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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#16  Post by majkinetor » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:11 pm

Here's a rather astounding study abstract (no full text access) involving V-A, folate, choline:

I can send you the study if you want.

No comments about weight issues ? You didn't notice any weight loss or gain ?

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#17  Post by gofanu » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:25 am

I would seriously appreciate a copy of that study. But be warned: if you can get that I might pester you for more!

gofanu at usachoice dot net

I do not have weight problems, nor anybody in my family = sphere of nutritional influence.
I am at 155/160 lb all my adult life, aside from some early times when I was arguably starving from simple lack of food. The variation is summer working outside to winter too much sitting. The only deviations were:
1) when I would be away from home for weeks or more, on American diet, when I gained an estimated 8-10 pounds and suffered clear B vitamin deficiencies. A week or two at home fixed that, repeatedly
2) when my wife started falling into the "low animal fat" BS and started giving us ground turkey and skinless chicken and super lean beef and cutting down on eggs. 5 or so pounds. Fixed when I went back to fried eggs and sausages and fried potatoes and no damned turkey unless it was the whole turkey including skin.

(I think that if I gained 15 pounds I would take a knife and start cutting it off!)

Weight problems are metabolic problems and can be fixed or controlled with nutrition.
After basics, which I have probably posted a dozen times at least, iodine is probably the single greatest factor. And likely the major factor in the obesity/diabetes/stupid epidemic taking over the world. The average US serum iodine level decreased by 50% from 1970-1990; the iodine antagonists chlorine, fluorine, bromine are used in ever increasing amounts, for ever more fraudulent reasons: there has been a constant movement from rural wells to chlorinated water supplies world wide - you absorb far more chlorine through your skin in a shower or swimming pool than in what you drink; the use of fluoride has increased drastically since 1950; the consumption of bromides in California doubled (in millions of pounds!) in one recent year - flame retardants based on contrived and false data about "children burning to death", and sprayed on crops that we eat! The world wide reliance on imported foods from a few overfarmed synthetically fertilized areas has resulted in a constant depletion of trace minerals in the general food supply. Odd restrictions have obscure consequences - EU trade retaliatory tariffs against the US resulted in less US wheat in Europe, which meant less selenium, since US wheat is a major dietary source of selenium. Aside from the ever expanding list of critical selenium dependent proteins, without selenium iodine does not work correctly. That gives you low thyroid function -n you get lazy, tired, fat, sick; the lack of selenium and iodine results in lipid oxidation and the destruction of V=A&E, you get fat, sick, dead.

Oh yes, the doctors and pharma get rich treating all this, and agrichem creating much of it.
And they just planted GMO corn on the formerly pristine hillside that drains entirely through my no chemicals ever garden

FRM

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#18  Post by Daniel D » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:45 am

At Curezone there was a diskussion, that mercury would oxidise vitamin A to retinoic acid, wich would be bad, if it occurs at the wrong place.
Do someone have experience with high vitamin A (>10,000IU) and mercury (amalgam) poisening?

I think Vitamin A is a very interesting topic, but i have to admit that i am not finished with it. It certainly is a controversial topic, but i assume that most negative evects are due to vitamin D and Vitamin C deficiency.
I have taken up to 30,000IU over periodes of a few months. As i have had migraine (mercury poisening >> hormone imbalance) i probably was not sure if it would contribute or not (headache are a Vitamin A toxicity sing).
As i am taking 10,000IU D3 atm, i think i could load up a bit on Vitamin A. ;-)

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#19  Post by skyorbit » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:23 am

How do you know that Activator x has been identified as vitamin K2?

Also, I've been taking 36,000 IU of Vitamin A (as retinol) plus what i get in my diet Plus fish oil so I'm guessing around 40,000 IU.

But I only started this regimin about 2 weeks ago (or less) so, since it's a fat soluble vitamin, and I was probably deficient, perhaps I should double my dosage -- at leasat for this 1st month.

How much is absorbed though? I have 8,000 IU softgells. If I take 4 of them at a time will they all get absorbed?

Tracy

PS. How much K2 should a person take then?

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#20  Post by skyorbit » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:26 am

gofanu wrote:Maj-
The annoying to life threatening effects of deficiency lead me to suggest that everybody increase their V-A, maybe not to my levels, but certainly to Pauling's. This is precisely the situation we know with respect to V-C, and I think numerous other nutrients. The deficiencies are sickening or killing far more people than any possible excess could or will.

FRM


What were Pauling's levels?

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#21  Post by majkinetor » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:17 am

25 000

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#22  Post by gofanu » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:37 pm

Please read the whole thread.
Owen posted Pauling's dosage.
Activator X = K was largely from Chris Masterjohn, and matches everything I've been able to find that is related. (I spent months if not years looking) See Weston Price foundation links earlier in thread - have fun! (they do have a rather whacko resident Dr - ignore)
Masterjohn also recently published his preliminary paper on K/A/D; was posted here a few months ago.
I have previously posted a good bit re A&D interplay, don't know if anybody can find it.

K2 is expensive - I am poor, and the research and availability are both changing rapidly. I would probably take 1 mg if I could; since I cannot now, I don't keep the info current - will revisit when cost/finance improves (ha). I am taking 50mcg K2, 100mcg K, and I am happy to indulge my taste for well aged cheese (and butter, though I doubt any of that is much use), the best food source other than natto, which I doubt I could take but I haven't met any yet. $20 worth of Stilton or Brie or really good Parmesan and a good beer beats hell out of $20 vitamins from yr fav health food store.

BTW, my total health care budget is less than $1/day/person. No have Doctor - nor need.

I have been sneaking up on dosages of many nutrients for years, as I learn more. I now think that quite large doses may be very effective and safe for reasonable periods of time; possibly not long term. I would not hesitate to take 100,000 A, 50,000D, 1mg Se, 100+mg to maybe 5gm I as Lugol's, 20 gms pantothenic acid, and as much C as I can hold, for a week or maybe a month, if symptoms seem to call for it. But, my progression is such that symptoms are exceeding rare!

I think that the whole mercury bugaboo is an incompetent understanding at best, and a serious scam at worst. A subject unto itself, but I have had a lot of mercury fillings for 45 years, and still have some, and some grown over by my now healed gums. And all the so called symptoms of "mercury poisoning" have been cured by other far more effective, cheaper, faster, and less painful means - with even more wonderful "side effects". And I take 600mg ALA/day too, more if I had the shekels. I also have and have had for many years as a welder/machinist/mechanic/metalworker heavy exposure to so called "heavy metals" of all varieties - lead, cadmium, zinc, copper, indium, silver, iron, chromium, manganese, nickle, aluminum, zirconium, beryllium (not enuf gold & platinum!)-I do not worry about that much, though I attempt to not eat too much or swim in the stuff anymore. Not even worried much about the early exposure to large quantities of PCB oil or asbestos dust - have you ever looked at the rocks on a California beach - they have asbestos fur??! And no, you are probably not a special "low excretor"'; you are a starving everyday sort of dude, given bad advice and being robbed regularly.

FRM

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#23  Post by skyorbit » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:12 pm

Thank you gofanu.

Just a quick question that didn't get answered.

Can a person's body absorb 36,000 IUs of A at a time?

I really only have 2 times a day I can take supplements and if I'm increasing my A intake to 80,000, that means I need to take about 40,000 twice a day.

I think based on what gofanu's saying I want to up it at least for a month.

Will my body absorb that much, or is it just getting wasted?

Tracy

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#24  Post by gofanu » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:52 pm

Tracy-

I take 40 at a time. Second 40 other end of the day, if I am taking that much. If I decide to take say, 60, I split it. I have no idea about absorption, but I do get tired of taking pills, so tend to a morning routine cause my brain is not functional, and then think about alterations at night. Always with fat/oil - peanut butter or cheese/butter crackers at least; 800 E with the AM A/D. Any sign of problems infections etc. (Has been long enough that I am forgetting it!) gets the full 40/40 A at least, and 800/800 E. Do you have specific issues? Visual effects usually are near instantaneous, mucous membranes of mouth a day or two, maybe a bit more, - But I have not been VERY deficient for 40 years. Skin things possibly to several months or more.

Note that A is very storable; health programs in Tibet and such give small children very large doses once or twice a year. One of the rare successes of modern Public Health medicine. As in, I do not carry A/D/E when traveling for a week or so.

I am not certain, but ghee is butter oil I think, so if you are someplace that can be had, it would do as the oil AND maybe supply K2. Couldn't hurt!

If I could get ghee and still had enough teeth that might be salvageable, I might well try painting my teeth with it.

FRM

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#25  Post by skyorbit » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:10 pm

Thanks,

I just read this http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble ... vitamin-k2

Kind of makes me wonder if Humans used to have the ability to synthesize K2 from K1 just like we used to be able to make C from Glucose.

I have a super K supplement from life extension that has 1 gram of K1 1 gram of K2-4 and .1 gram of K2-7. I've been taking one in the morning, and one in the evening for about 3 weeks.

A, K, and D and E are all fat soluble vitamins, so they're half life in the body is about a month I would imagine. I figure after this 1st month of taking these double high doses I'll go back to taking 40,000 IU a day and 1 of these tablets.

I need to find a good special on this though. I'm going to run out in about a week. :(

Does anybody have any good coupon codes for http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements ... er%20K%202 :)

Tracy

Tracy

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#26  Post by pamojja » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:15 am

gofanu wrote:K2 is expensive - I am poor, and the research and availability are both changing rapidly. I would probably take 1 mg if I could; since I cannot now, I don't keep the info current - will revisit when cost/finance improves (ha).


Most cost effective high dose vitamin Ks I've found (by taking half or a quarter of a capsule):

Vitacost Vitamin K-1 -- 10 mg - 90 Capsules - $15.99

Vitamin K2 menatetrenone (MK-4) -- 15 mg - 90 Capsules - $34.99 (each, for 4 or more bottles)

Vitamin K2 Complex w/ K1 - 90 Capsules - $17.56 (on special sale now: buy 2 get 3 - but already sold out at the moment :-(
500 mcg of MK-7 and MK-4 each, 1 mg of K1


gofanu wrote:BTW, my total health care budget is less than $1/day/person. No have Doctor - nor need.


Gofanu, if your total health care budget of $1 includes all the supplements you take, would you're be willing to share how you accomplish that? To which nutrients you give most priority? Any specially reasonable priced sources?

Because mine - though being very price conscious myself - already easily exceeds €15,-/day (where I quited calculating due to the depressing implications and non-sustainability of such a supplement intake with my own precarious financial situation. Ironically I'm only able to still pay that much because the burn-out - which initially ignited a full blown PAD 3 years ago and had me started with supplements the first time in my live - also let me accumulate some little savings for which I bought some ounces of gold then.. though the price increase for gold since has been huge, it wont last for that many years longer)
Last edited by pamojja on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#27  Post by skyorbit » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:35 am

Does MK-4 also absorb near 100% absorption like Mk-7? And Mk-7 just has a longer half life after absorption? Or is that another area where MK-7 is superior?

Tracy

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#28  Post by pamojja » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:16 am

skyorbit wrote:Or is that another area where MK-7 is superior?


Though MK-7 has a much longer half-life and a much much smaller dose seems to give results. Don't think the question of superiority is already settled that easily (considering the different uptake by different body tissues).

Some details: Metabolism and cell biology of vitamin K (pdf file)

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#29  Post by skyorbit » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:19 pm

Thank you.

Does anybody know the answer to the other question? Does MK4 have a near 100% absorption rate too?

I think it would probably be a good thing to take both. Although I would imagine that the body probably has a way to take the excess trands off the mk7 to make it into mk4 if it was needed. I'd be curious if any research has been done on that. converting K1 to K2 apparently isn't something our body can do, but is there any research about whether our body's can convert between the various lengths of K2.

Tracy

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Re: Reversing tooth decay and cavities naturally

Post Number:#30  Post by pamojja » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:43 am

skyorbit wrote:Thank you. Does MK4 have a near 100% absorption rate too?


Where you got the information that MK7 would be absorbed near 100%?

Here some bits of a google translation of a chapter in the the Vitamin Handbook:

3.14.3 Metabolism and Pharmacokinetics

Absorption

In human diet phylloquinone plays the main role, menaquinones contribute only a small amount of the Vitamin K-supply. Both vitamins are preferably absorbed in the jejunum by a saturable energy-dependent active transport in the presence of bile acids and pancreatic lipase by micelle formation in to the intestinal lymphatic system. The lower the pH value the higher is the absorption rate. In adults the absorption of vitamin K1 occurs with a rapid absorption rate of 60-80%, and by only 30% in the newborn because of the physiologic steatorrhea.
Vitamin K2 formed by intestinal bacteria (E. coli and Lactobacillus acidophilus) located in the terminal ileum and colon requires for absorption also bile acids and pancreatic lipase. It is absorbed by passive, non-saturable transport and only a small part is absorbed.
Vitamin K3, and its water soluble derivatives are independent of bile acids and pancreatic lipase passively absorbed in both the small intestine and the colon and pass directly into the bloodstream.

Distribution

In blood vitamin K is bound to lipoproteins, mainly to the VLDL fraction. The plasma concentration-time curve shows a biphasic course with an initial half-life of 20-30 minutes and a terminal between 120-165 minutes. The single K-vitamins are unevenly distributed in the body.

Storage

The naturally occurring vitamins K1 and K2 accumulate primarily in the liver but also in adrenal, kidney, lung and bone marrow. The storage capacity of the liver is low and will cover a vitamin deficiency for 1-2 weeks. Hardly any Vitamin K3 is found in the liver and receives vitamin K activity only after alkylation of C3, it spreads more quickly in the body and is also rapidly eliminated. Adults over 60 years have higher plasma phyllochinon level than younger under 40. These differences are caused by the plasma triglyceride concentrations, which increase with age. From this sometimes a good vitamin K status is erroneously assumed for older people. However, if one refers triglycerides-concentrations to phyllochinone-concentrations we obtain the ratio of phylloquinone: triglyceride levels lower in older than in younger ones, indicating a poorer vitamin K status. Furthermore, the phyllochinone-conzentrations in plasma are influenced by the polymorphism of apolipoprotein E in accordance with the hepatic clearance rate of the ApoE genotypes (carbon Meier et al. 1995, Saupe et al. 1993).

Biotransformation and elimination

Vitamin K1 and K2 are more than 50% excreted by bile with the feces and only 20% by shortening the side chain by ß-oxidation in the form of glucuronides via the kidney. The metabolism and excretion of vitamin K3 is fast in comparison to vitamin K1. Of the metabolites and excretion products of menadione only 2-methyl-1,4-naphthohydroquinone-1,4-diglucuronide and the 2-methyl-1,4-hydroxy-1-naphthylsulfat have been identified, which are 70% eliminated by the urine. The majority of the metabolites could not be characterized (monograph vitamin K and vitamin K analogues, 1989).
Recent bioavailability studies in healthy men have shown that administration of similar doses of vitamin K1 and K2 in 400 g spinach (vitamin K1) and in 200 g natto (fermented Japanese soy products, vitamin K2), circulating vitamin K2 concentrations were more than 10-times higher than those of K1, (Schurgers and Vermeer 2000). The relatively low bio-availability of K from the diet (approximately 2- to 5-fold lower than that of free vitamin K supplements) is attributed to the weak binding of phylloquinone to the plant chloroplasts and the low release efficiency in the digestive tract (Garber et al 1999th ). Moreover, the apparent half-life of vitamin K2 in circulation is much longer than that of K1 (Schurgers and Vermeer 2000). This may have physiological consequences, since as soon as vitamin K is taken up by the liver or other tissues, there is no efficient mechanism to transfer the intact molecule back into the vascular system. The longer plasma half-life of vitamin K2, implies that it is available for extrahepatic tissues such as bone for a longer duration than phylloquinone.


Note: This capter first states vit K1 would be readily absorbed by 60-80%, and only in the end that approximately 2 to 5-fold less would be absorbed from diet than from supplements. This is a very confusing way of saying that actually as little as 10% or K1 is absorbed from diet, while 60-80% from supplements.


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