2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#31  Post by exitium » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:42 am

Frank, it can be hard to go against what doctors say but most have succumbed to being nothing more than puppets for the pharmaceutical system. No one will argue about the statits cholesterol lowering effects but no one ever actually discusses the long term side effects and actual BENEFIT.

Ask your doc to provide you long term data showing that statins lower mortality.

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#32  Post by Frank51 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:42 pm

What I've read doesn't lead me to believe that statins will lengthen your life by lowering your cholesterol level. What I have read is they do seem to reduce inflammation and that's what Lp(a) likes to stick to. I assume there is inflammation where the grafts have been done and it would be helpful to take statins if they reduce it. I need to go back and read what I can find about them reducing it.

I'm Also thinking from what I've read you need some Lp(a) to maybe plaster over some of these grafts if they have some weak spots and that would be the reason not to get your level to low. What I'm hesitant about is taking niacin and proline because they seem to be able to lower your Lp(a) level pretty dramatically in some cases and that may not be a good thing if you've got some weak spots that need to be plastered over.

My Lp(a) level seems pretty high at 146 and I think it would be alright to take niacin and proline along with the vit c and lysine but I'm unsure about that.

blade

Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#33  Post by blade » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:49 am

Frank51 wrote:.

I'm Also thinking from what I've read you need some Lp(a) to maybe plaster over some of these grafts if they have some weak spots and that would be the reason not to get your level to low. .


where did you read that?
why would you want LPA and not collagen?
(collagen needs AA to be made)

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#34  Post by Frank51 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:43 pm

Blade, do you have Owens book practicing medicine without a license?

In the section 'Why the Pauling Therapy may not work in some cases',
reason # 6 "Coronary Artery Bypasses",
page 157

In this section Owen writes about the bypass grafts, Lp(a) and plaque. What's written there is one of the things I've read that that concern me.
Because my Lp(a) test came back with a high number I'm wondering if I should go ahead and take proline and niacin to try and lower the numbers.

Owens replies to another poster in this thread in posts #23 and #27 have me wondering about taking niacin and proline along with the vit c and L-Lysine.

blade

Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#35  Post by blade » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:04 am

I have the book yes

I read the part you pointed out, thanks for that

I've never heard of someone dying because their transplanted/great artery "burst" because it was nice "strong" enough.
I'd think that would warrant you take AA+proline+lysine+vit K+nutrition of other foods to make sure your body can make the grafted veins stronger.

From what I can tell, LpA, is worthless. why do want plaque build up that is going to lead to more buildup and possible high BP



Effect of vitamin C and its derivatives on collagen synthesis and cross-linking by normal human fibroblasts.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18505499


Our data suggest that Lp(a) and peroxidative stress may be involved as cofactors in essential hypertension
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11833851

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#36  Post by Frank51 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:06 am

Blade, when you refer to LpA cholesterol do you mean Lp(a)?

Owen writes of the difference between Lp(a) and LpA in chapter 4, page 52 and 53.
To little or to much Lp(a) is thought to be a problem. I haven't read anywhere that it's worthless but can save our lives if we're not getting enough vit c to make collagen that strengthens our arteries.

I've come to the conclusion I probably need to add niacin and proline to the supplements I'm already taking to lower the Lp(a) but I'm uncertain of the amounts. I think I'll need to keep going with the supplements and next time I have the Lp(a) checked use the VAP test Owen recommends.

I'm already taking ascorbic acid, L-Lysine, L-taurine, L-carnatine, L-arganine + L-citrulene, CoQ10, D3, vit A, fish oil, K2, MK7, magnesium, B complex , alpha lipoic acid, resveratrol and vit E. I think that about covers it. :-) I also take some nascent iodine every day that seems to help my memory.

Blade have you had bypass surgery and if you have what supplements do you take and in what amounts? I took a quick look at the links you provided and will go back and read them again. Thanks

blade

Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#37  Post by blade » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:33 am

why do you think Lpa can save lives?

I understand Owens theory about hardening of grafted veins via LPA might make them "Stronger", but I've never heard of someone dying from a busted vein that broke because it wasnt strong enough. In fact, I am aware of 2 people who have had bypass surgey and one of them is going in for more surgery.. so he might have had more lpa build up, BUT the other guy changed his life and is now a health nut and lost fat/etc and is on a mediterrean type diet...(veggies/fruit/fish/eggs) while I dont agree with eating fish(just cause I find them gross. he is doing what you should do, but to a less extent, getting ihs AA and other nutrients, but mostly via food
I think you should stick to the supplements you are taking, along with figuring out your total testostrone and estrogen and getting them into a T/E ratio of 30 with total T at least 500ng/dl and estadiol 20-30pg/ml, which I talk about here
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11961

I am much in agreement about the perils of inflammation
http://www.sott.net/article/242516-Hear ... rt-disease
This MD is fighting against the idea CAD is caused by high cholestrol, he doesnt mention AA at all and makes a lot of assumptions, like "stress cloggs arteries", be is missing one kep step in why plaque forms, (lpa/ aterial scury)

Good luck Frank, please keep us all updated

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#38  Post by Frank51 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:24 pm

blade wrote:why do you think Lpa can save lives?


Page 53 of Owens book "Practicing Medicine with out a license" has two paragraphs that I think will answer your question. The title above them is "Lp(a) as a surrogate for Vitamin C".

blade

Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#39  Post by blade » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:32 pm

yes, he again suggest that lpa might have benifeit if you don't have AA.
it's a theory, i see no way to test or why youd want to test it, even if you have bypass surgery
reading it agian, it looks like owen is saying lpa helps IF you dont have AA in your diet.
when you have lots of AA in your diet, you dont need lpa

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#40  Post by Frank51 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:51 am

blade wrote:yes, he again suggest that lpa might have benifeit if you don't have AA.
it's a theory, i see no way to test or why youd want to test it, even if you have bypass surgery
reading it agian, it looks like owen is saying lpa helps IF you dont have AA in your diet.
when you have lots of AA in your diet, you dont need lpa


I don't want to test the benefit of Lp(a) but lower the level of it I have because mine is high. I don't want to completely eliminate it only lower it.

My Lp(a) is at 146 and I've read anything over 30 puts you at risk and 10 to 13 is the desired level.

blade

Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#41  Post by blade » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:24 pm

do what owen says
high dose AA
niacin
apples
HRT(if E is above 20-30 and T is less than 500, HRT is not just about more testostrone, estrogen control is vital)

what else do you know of that will lower LPA?

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#42  Post by Frank51 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:02 pm

blade wrote:
what else do you know of that will lower LPA?


I've read crushed flaxseed, almonds, walnuts and alcohol will lower Lp(a).

40 grams of flax seed per day with oat meal.
73 grams of almonds per day.
2 or 3 oz. of alcohol per day.

blade

Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#43  Post by blade » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:43 pm

Frank51 wrote:
40 grams of flax seed per day with oat meal.
73 grams of almonds per day.
2 or 3 oz. of alcohol per day.

besides this, what else are you doing to lower LPA
and be healthy:
I read your thread, you had your 1st bypass at 32?
how is your sex life? I've read ED is a canary to CAD. Since starting pauling therapy, things are great in the bedroom/kitchen/living room
but I'm also doing other stuff,,,,,,
It became a big post and I dont want to
1 detrect from your thread
2 get ideas from more expiernece health people I think I should make this it's own thread,...

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#44  Post by Frank51 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:19 am

blade wrote:
Frank51 wrote:
40 grams of flax seed per day with oat meal.
73 grams of almonds per day.
2 or 3 oz. of alcohol per day.

besides this, what else are you doing to lower LPA
and be healthy:
I read your thread, you had your 1st bypass at 32?
how is your sex life? I've read ED is a canary to CAD. Since starting pauling therapy, things are great in the bedroom/kitchen/living room
but I'm also doing other stuff,,,,,,
It became a big post and I dont want to
1 detrect from your thread
2 get ideas from more expiernece health people I think I should make this it's own thread,...



You've lost me here. I didn't start this thread but the discussion in this thread is of interest to me because I'm trying to find the answers to lowering Lp(a) like the person who did start it.

I'm 63 years old and have been healthy all my life until my bypass surgery a little over four months ago.

blade

Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#45  Post by blade » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:19 am

Frank51 wrote:
I'm 63 years old and have been healthy all my life until my bypass surgery a little over four months ago.

Healthy all your life?
how do you figure that ?
I didnt realize healthy people dont needed bypass surgery
and you've had 2 off them?

so maybe your idea of what healthy is, isnt realistic?

Previously, I was trying to find out, besides taking AA and lowering lpA, what else you were doing to be "healthy"

HRT can lower LPA,http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20842562

I'd get your testosterone and estrogen levels checked and make sure your total T is above 500ng/dl and your estrogen(estradiol) is 20-30pg/ml and so the ratio of T/E is 30+

My dad is also in his 60s and won't address his high Estrogen, even though that's what's going to cause him to have issues
good luck


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