2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#16  Post by davids1 » Mon May 19, 2014 10:13 am

Johnhope wrote:I am hoping that the high dosage Vit C protocol will aid this condition to or even cure it?
Hi John,

For what it might be worth to you, I've come to believe that given enough time, and enough ascorbate, vitamin C will "cure" [virtually] everything and anything [or allow your body to cure itself of "everything/anything"]. This quote from Dr. Thomas Levy, M.D. is instructive:
I am absolutely convinced of one thing -- when enough vitamin C is given...for a long enough time, vitamin C helps virtually every condition, resolves many of them, and prevents still others....Furthermore, I have never found a single article showing properly dosed and administered vitamin C to fail to improve the status of a toxic or infected patient.
As Dr. Frederick Klenner, M.D. put it:
I have never seen a patient that Vitamin C would not benefit.
Just my viewpoint and "two cents worth," John,

David
JFYI, I have ingested a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid [via one gram tablets], in HEALTH, not illness [of which I have had virtually none], basically every day since 1994, amounting to [currently], on average, 75+ grams [daily], in 10 to 15 divided doses.

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#17  Post by johnhoperobinson » Mon May 19, 2014 1:24 pm

Hi Owen
I am on 60 mg of Atorvastatin.
I gave you the cholesterol reading as 440 for the American measurement .The UK level would be 11.
Is there a level where statins are advocated or are they just not?
it feels like there is no point surely?
If I take enough Vit C / Lysine & Proline protocol then will it clear my arteries even if I have a high cholesterol or is LP(a) the key regardless of a high cholesterol?

thanks

john

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#18  Post by johnhoperobinson » Mon May 19, 2014 1:28 pm

Hi David
thanks so much for your post which I believe also to be the case.

regards

john

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#19  Post by johnhoperobinson » Mon May 19, 2014 1:33 pm

To Johnwen
do you have any experience with Vit C and CLL?
I would welcome any thoughts.

REGARDS

JOHN

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#20  Post by tjohnson_nb » Mon May 19, 2014 4:01 pm

johnhoperobinson wrote:Hi Owen
I am on 60 mg of Atorvastatin.
I gave you the cholesterol reading as 440 for the American measurement .The UK level would be 11.
Is there a level where statins are advocated or are they just not?
it feels like there is no point surely?
If I take enough Vit C / Lysine & Proline protocol then will it clear my arteries even if I have a high cholesterol or is LP(a) the key regardless of a high cholesterol?

thanks

john

You could try niacin for cholesterol control - it doesn't have the negative effects of statins plus has added health benefits.

See http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html
'Always' and 'never' are 2 words you should always remember never to use.

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#21  Post by johnhoperobinson » Tue May 20, 2014 4:58 am

Thanks tjohnson
as per 1st post I have taken 1500 mg of slow release niacin for 18 years now.
I think this was the actual reason my first bypass lasted 15 years unbeknown to me even though the medical fraternity says it would have been the statins !
I hope now with the pauling protocol I can not only keep my new veins clear but that I can clear all my arteries !

regards

john

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#22  Post by tjohnson_nb » Tue May 20, 2014 8:59 am

Hi John,

According to what I have read, you should probably be taking much more b3 than 1500 mg if your cholesterol is so high.

The correct dose of niacin depends on what abnormality you and your doctor are trying to correct. To raise HDL and correct small LDL, a dose of 750-1000 mg a day usually provides full benefit. Increasing this dose to 1500 mg a day may provide slightly greater benefit. To reduce LDL or Lp(a), higher doses (from 1000 mg up to 4000-5000 mg per day) are often used, with higher doses providing greater effects. However, doses this high should be taken only with a physician’s supervision. Keep in mind that it may take three months or longer to realize the full lipid-optimizing benefits of niacin.


http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/mar2007_atd_01.htm

They also talk about extended release vs slow release (not good). I like the straight niacin myself, 1 gm 2-3 times a day.
'Always' and 'never' are 2 words you should always remember never to use.

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#23  Post by ofonorow » Wed May 21, 2014 12:36 pm

First, regarding the Niacin comments, I would suggest reading NIACIN: THE REAL STORY by Hoffer/Saul et. al. Using Niacin has a "healthy statin" to lower cholesterol fails for the same reasons any statin drug fails. Cholesterol is your friend. It is helping the body cope with heart disease and toxins. (I also noted that Hoffer routinely prescribed 3 grams of ascorbate along side the 3 grams of niacin.)

After the heart condition (chronic scurvy) is taken care of, cholesterol declines on its own - naturally. (Except maybe in rare cases of hypocholesterolemia - very high cholesterol caused by a genetic quirk. 440 mg/dl may be at the level where Niacin for lowering cholesterol makes sense. And if you have used it for years, I would keep using it.


johnhoperobinson wrote:Hi Owen
I am on 60 mg of Atorvastatin. Wow, johnwen?
I gave you the cholesterol reading as 440 for the American measurement .The UK level would be 11.
Is there a level where statins are advocated or are they just not? You are probably there - johnwen?
it feels like there is no point surely?
If I take enough Vit C / Lysine & Proline protocol then will it clear my arteries even if I have a high cholesterol or is LP(a) the key regardless of a high cholesterol?
Except maybe in cases like yours of extremely high cholesterol. Vitamin C brings most people to 180 mg/dl (at the optimal amount). But yes, the more of your cholesterol that is the sticky Lp(a), the greater the risk of arterial narrowing, and Lp(a) binding inhibitors, e.g. vitamin C, lysine and proline should work to limit the risk

thanks

john
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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#24  Post by johnhoperobinson » Wed May 21, 2014 3:36 pm

hi Owen
bit confused now !
If statins don't make any difference to LP(a) then why would they be advocated?
I also thought niacin lowered LP(a)?
If my LP(a) is very very high then will the pauling therapy protocol still work for me?

thanks

john

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#25  Post by ofonorow » Fri May 23, 2014 10:37 am

Don't take my laughing (he he he) the wrong way..

johnhoperobinson wrote:hi Owen
bit confused now !
If statins don't make any difference to LP(a) then why would they be advocated?

he he he

To be fair, how many doctors know that Lp(a) is the primary risk factor - or that statins generally increase and don't decrease Lp(a)? You now know more about this than most heart doctors.


I also thought niacin lowered LP(a)?

According to Atherotech publications, both Niacin AND Vitamin C will reduce Lp(a) up to 30%.

We have noticed that in some people, adding proline (to Vitamin C and Lysine) can bring Lp(a) down to zero. May take over a year.


If my LP(a) is very very high then will the pauling therapy protocol still work for me?

thanks

john

Great question and the answer is "you betcha". Lp(a) binding inhibitors - the Pauling/Rath invention of vitamin C, lysine and proline - inactivate Lp(a) in the blood making it inert and not dangerous. The higher your Lp(a), the higher the dose of Lp(a) binding inhibitors would be required.

Here is the first Pauling/Rath patent
5,278,189 - Prevention and Treatment of Cardiovascular Disease with Ascorbate and Substances that Inhibit the Binding of Lipoprotein(a)
http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5278189.PN.&OS=PN/5278189&RS=PN/5278189
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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#26  Post by johnhoperobinson » Fri May 23, 2014 3:47 pm

Thanks Owen
on your previous reply you indicated that I'm probably there (440 cholesterol) where statins would be advocated?
that's why I was confused?
As I thought statins are a waste of time for anyone?
Have I misunderstood?

Another question do you think that the binding inhibitors after my 2 bypasses will clear out my original arteries and bypass grafts if I take large enough doses? (any recommendations?)

thanks

john

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#27  Post by ofonorow » Tue May 27, 2014 8:31 am

No controversy that statin cholesterol-lowering drugs lower cholesterol.

In my opinion, cholesterol over 250 is elevated, and 440 mg/dl is probably a genetic issue, so yes, if optimal vitamin C does not bring the cholesterol under say 220 (or cut in half) then you are probably in the small subset of the population that is over producing cholesterol for no good reason. But I would begin by trying to "optidose" ascorbic acid powder to bowel tolerance in your case.

Also, I would probably try niacin too before resorting to a statin cholesterol-lowering drug, a drug which is known to interfere with the body's own production of CoQ10. If you resort to statins, or stay on them, take at least 200 mg of CoQ10 daily with meals.

Most people can bring their total cholesterol to 180 mg/dl over time with the optimal daily dosage of vitamin C. I am interested in what happens in your case, from 6 to 12 months on vitamin C. (Assuming there isn't some underlying toxicity issue at play.)

We are flying blind (unfortunately, as no one is studying the Pauling therapy in heart patients) but if I had 2 bypasses, I might be leery of proline. I would begin with high doses of vitamin C, and 5000 to 6000 mg of lysine, and see what happens. (Proline seems to be able to "turn off" the body's production of Lp(a), which in people with healthy arteries and no by--passes is a good thing IFF they are taking vitamin C! (Lp(a) according to the Pauling/Rath theory is a surrogate for chronically low levels of vitamin c in humans.) Bypasses are usually made from leg veins - which I learned from Dr. Levy's STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER, are 1-ply (while arteries are 3-ply - or stronger). It is possible that Lp(a) strengthens these veins in heart bypasses, so again,
conservatively without knowing, I would recommend sticking with Pauling's vitamin C and lysine recommendation. (Proline is not essential, meaning our body's make this amino acid.)

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#28  Post by johnhoperobinson » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:22 pm

ok Owen/All
got my LP(a) result back today .
571 mg/l which I assume translates into 57 mg/dl ?
I have stopped the statins and I already take 1500mg of slow release niacin.(20 years of this)
15g of Vit C (3 sachets of livon labs liposomal per day), 10g lysine and 8 g proline.
I would really welcome any more advice if there is any ? although I must confess that my chest pain has subsided dramatically since stopping the statins !
Am I on the right track ?

regards
john

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#29  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:37 am

If 57 mg/dl - then Lp(a) very high and you are doing exactly the right thing (according to Linus Pauling).

Stopping statins (yes) agrees with notice in Canadian medical journals that statins increase Lp(a)

Without reviewing your post - I think the proline at 8 grams may be high, but I like everything else. Don't forget vitamin E and vitamin K.
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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#30  Post by Frank51 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:15 am

My first post here but I've been reading for a couple of months looking for information about heart disease. I had five bypasses four months ago and started on the pauling therapy about two and a half months ago.

I've been taking 18 to 24 grams of Vit. C and 6 grams of lysine divided in to three doses per day. That seems to be my Bt per day on the vit c.

My total cholesterol before surgery was 219 and I hadn't been taking any statins. I'll soon be 64 years old.
After surgery I was started on pravastatin but the numbers didn't come down much so I was switched to atorvastatin. I've been anti statin for a long time but decided I'd follow the doctorts orders for a year any way.

My last cholesterol check the number had come down to 160 total. I asked to be taken off the atorvastatin because I believe it was having a negative affect on my memory. I was put back on pravastatin and was told by the cardiologist it would help with inflamation on the grafts.
The latest cholesterol check about two weeks ago I insisted on them checking my Lp(a) level. The blood sample was sent to the Mayo clinic but I haven't been able to get an answer whether the result is measured or estimated.

The results for the Lp(a) were 146 H <=30 mg/dL

Owen, I have some proline but have hesitated to take any yet because I've read you "tend to be leery when someone has had bypasses".

What would you recommend as far as me taking proline along with the vit c and lysine?

I have some niacin ordered because I've read it will lower Lp(a) but I've also been hesitant to take it because of the bypasses.

What stops me from quiting the statin they have me on now is what the cardiologist said about it helping to control inflamation even though I read it raises the Lp(a) level. I've been taking Ultra CoQ10 along with the statins because of what I've read here.

I have your book and have spent quit a bit of time reading and rereading parts of it. Owen, thanks for all the effort you've put in to this site and your book promoting the pauling therapy. It gives me hope that I can stop and reverse the heart disease I have.


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