2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#61  Post by johnhoperobinson » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:27 am

Hi All/Owen/Jonwen
I am the originator of this thread and I thought I would update you with my current situation and I would really welcome any thoughts and advice.
I started the Pauling Therapy April 2014 having been on 80 mg Atorvastatin from October 2010.(date of my second bypass operation.)
I started getting chest pain again May 2016.
I have a small hiatal hernia and an incisional hernia and was 'Hoping' that this was the cause of the pain on exertion.
I was moved to a heart specialist after it was determined that it was not the cause.
After an angiogram it was determined that my LIMA graft was excellent and my Circumflex graft was also patent but my Right artery graft was fully blocked as well as my native Right Coronary artery.
I declined another bypass operation as I just could not go through it again.
I instead have had 4 stents placed in my RCA vein graft as the specialist found the native RCA difficult to 'get at'.
The operation was very traumatic as the 'sedation' was very poorly executed as in non-existent.
My current regime:

20 g Vitamin C (liposamol c )
10 g Lysine throughout the day
4 g Proline throughout the day
9 g Argnine (slow release)
75 mg Aspirin
75 mg Plavax (anti clot )
Vit B multi

My doctor has of course told me that I have to be on 80 mg of statins as this is the only way that everything will stay 'open'.
I am feeling quite depressed at the moment over this recurrent situation as I am still only 53 and the fact the operation was very traumatic and did not need to be.
I would welcome any thoughts/advice form anyone especially from Owen and Jonwen.

Thankyou kindly

john

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#62  Post by Joanna45 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:31 am

I would add vitamin A to the regiment..I'm hoping that Johnwen will answer but I don't think that statins work because if they did you would not be having more blocked arteries. I don't know where you buy you vitamin C .i buy mine from tower labs as it has all the ingredients in one powder form..I just started adding K2 ..I had 50 percent narrowing of superior mesenteric artery and celiac artery. Symptoms for me was extreme pain after eating ..was also having angina pain with excercise. All that went away in about a week after taking PT. And has stayed away..just had a lipoprotein a test and waiting for the results..and expecting the results will be under 50mg/dl. Also it has been 9 months since starting PT

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#63  Post by ofonorow » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:03 am

It too hope johnwen will comment on your post #61.

My first thought/concern is the 20 grams of liposomal vitamin C. Without going all the way back through this topic, why are you relying entirely on liposomal?

As we have stated, we know that ordinary vitamin C powder, usually as ascorbic acid, has a dramatic effect on heart and cardiovascular disease, and that many folks have reported even better success ADDING liposomal to their powdered C.

How much of regular vitamin C can you take without diarrhea? Cathcart felt that almost everyone can take a minimum of at least 4 grams per day, 1 gram four times daily. That should be your minimum of regular (non-lipo) C. If cost is an issue, check out wholesale nutrition (nutri.com) , its very inexpensive, I have confidence in their C.

You are not taking 20 grams of a True-Liposomal daily, so it must be a DIY "liposomal." What kind of vitamin C are you using ?

These emulsions are thought to be better than powder, based on a lot of anecdotal evidence, much of it at this forum. But what if an emulation acts like fiber? We discovered early on that when people took Pauling's vitamin C/lysine therapy with fiber - it didn't work. Apparently, the fiber leached onto the nutrients, preventing them from being absorbed. Separating the intake of PT from fiber solved the problem "miraculously".

Even if the lipo (C) is absorbed into the blood stream, if the C doesn't separate from the phospholipid, there may be some inhibition on the PT effect we are so used to seeing. While this is only a theory, something is going wrong. I believe it is important for you to start taking as much of your vitamin C as ascorbic acid powder as you can tolerate.

Point 2, you are missing vitamin E, and vitamin E and C work to recycle (reduce) each other, while vitamin E works in the "fat soluble" space, and vitamin C works in the "water soluble" space. Add at least 400 of a good vitamin E. (As we say time and again, Unique-E is clearly the best, and after a bottle or two, maybe then look for a less expensive alternative. (And the late owner of a.c. grace credited 4000 iu of unique E for saving his life - that is why he bought the company.)

Point 3. I am glad you are not taking statins, and leave the drug discussion to johnwen, however, I think I know that plavix is dangerous. There are at least two studies of Plavix that were halted because the Plavix group was doing so poorly relative to the placebo group. Maybe johnwen can suggest some alternative given your medical situation. This is another argument for high dose Unique-E (instead of aspirin and the super aspiring Plavix).

And the aspirin is a lot like smoking, in that dealing with this "toxin" uses up vitamin C.

In summary,

1. start taking as much vitamin C as ascorbic acid (and add some sodium ascorbate given your hiatal hernia) as you can tolerate.
2. start taking at least 400 iu of a good vitamin E
3. See what johnwen has to say about alternatives to Plavix

Consider the entire PT protocol from Chapter 7 - including Coq10, magnesium and vitamin k.

I might also moderate the lysine/proline.. but that is much lower priority. (Say to 6 grams lysine and 1 g proline)
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#64  Post by Johnwen » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:21 am

To save me a lot of typing!
John should do a search on “HYPERPLASIA” with Johnwen as Author in this forum!

I wrote about this 36 times according to my search with theses parameters.

Then do a search using “vasospasms”

This should get him what he needs to know about what’s going on with him.

As far as the plavix which is a anti-platelet medicine it would be advisable given what he’s had done, to stay on it! It has no effect or interaction with PT and is needed at this point!

One thing I would like to advise is to cut his Proline down to 1 Gram a day!
This is a non-essential amino acid that can work against some BP meds and cause gastric disturbance, it also can force proteins out of the body causing the kidneys to do extra work when higher doses are taken! 1 Gram dosing has not shown any of these effects and since you get some from food this would be a safer dose given his condition.

Statins make great sounds when you put them in the garbage disposable of your sink with just a small trickle of water! That’s the only thing I know of that their good for!! Need I say More???

DON’T STOP OR SKIP YOUR V-C PROTOCAL NOT EVEN FOR A SINGLE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#65  Post by johnhoperobinson » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:54 am

Dear All/Owen/Johnwen
Thank you so much for your kind replies and I just wanted to reiterate how wonderful , Informative and supportive this fantastic forum is.

Joanna45
I will add Vit A to my regimen.

Owen.
I take 4 sachets of Livon Labs Liposomal C per day. (equivalent to 20g Vit C ? / Thomas Levy says equivalent to poss. 40 g Vit C?)
I will add Asorbis acid to my regimen from today gradually also. ( can it all be Sodium Asorbate ? )
I will add Vitamin E also today.

Johnwen.
Once again I am indebted to you for your continued support and knowledge. We are very lucky to have you in this forum.
I have read all the articles you have written to do with Hyperplasia as instructed.
I will reduce Proline to 1g per day as per your advice.
I currently take 9g+ Aginine slow release per day after reading Louis Agnarro book a few years ago.(I can get Monosorb on prescription if you think it may be better?)
I have a few questions if I may..,
1. My surgeon put 4 stents in the RCA Bypass vein Graft and told me it was blocked all the way from top to bottom. I am confused here because I thought Neo-Intimal Hyperplasia just clogged up the junctions of the vein grafts? I wonder if you could kindly put me straight on this?
2. How much Serrapeptase should I take daily and should it be enteric coated? (Any particular brand?)
3. Will Serrapeptase clear all my bypass vein grafts?
4. Will it clear my Native Coronary Arteries?

Thankyou so much as always Johnwen :-)

Regards All

John

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#66  Post by johnhoperobinson » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:07 pm

Hi Owen/Johnwen
I would be really grateful if you would be able to help with my questions in the post copied below:
thanks so much.
Dear All/Owen/Johnwen
Thank you so much for your kind replies and I just wanted to reiterate how wonderful , Informative and supportive this fantastic forum is.

Joanna45
I will add Vit A to my regimen.

Owen.
I take 4 sachets of Livon Labs Liposomal C per day. (equivalent to 20g Vit C ? / Thomas Levy says equivalent to poss. 40 g Vit C?)
I will add Asorbis acid to my regimen from today gradually also. ( can it all be Sodium Asorbate ? )
I will add Vitamin E also today.

Johnwen.
Once again I am indebted to you for your continued support and knowledge. We are very lucky to have you in this forum.
I have read all the articles you have written to do with Hyperplasia as instructed.
I will reduce Proline to 1g per day as per your advice.
I currently take 9g+ Aginine slow release per day after reading Louis Agnarro book a few years ago.(I can get Monosorb on prescription if you think it may be better?)
I have a few questions if I may..,
1. My surgeon put 4 stents in the RCA Bypass vein Graft and told me it was blocked all the way from top to bottom. I am confused here because I thought Neo-Intimal Hyperplasia just clogged up the junctions of the vein grafts? I wonder if you could kindly put me straight on this?
2. How much Serrapeptase should I take daily and should it be enteric coated? (Any particular brand?)
3. Will Serrapeptase clear all my bypass vein grafts?
4. Will it clear my Native Coronary Arteries?

Thankyou so much as always Johnwen :-)

Regards All

John

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#67  Post by ofonorow » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:25 pm

We all learn from johnwen. He is a treasure (and I assumed he is tenured :D )

And I love Dr. Levy, but I do not believe that ratio Dr. Levy mentions applies to heart disease. I believe when he is quoted properly, he stresses Lypo has more "IU"-like-thingys for INFECTIONS. In his book he always recommends all three: oral, IV/C and true-liposomal. So for some applications a 4 to 1, and for infections, possible a 10 to 1 over IV/C. I worry about heart disease because of my brother Mike TIll.. There may be some unexpected counter-effect we don't understand. There are some wonderful reports of adding true-liposs on top of a good ascorbic acid powder.
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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#68  Post by Frank51 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:37 pm

ofonorow wrote:
Frank51 wrote:I didn't have a photo taken of the arteries in my eyes but I did have them checked not long after my surgery. The optometrist was formerly a chemist and he said in his training he'd learned to look for plaque in the arteries in the back of your eyes. He had a 45 degree camera but wasn't set up to use it yet. I told him about Sydney Bush's work identifying heart disease and recommending vitamin c to his patients.

He did see that the arteries in the back of my eyes had plaque in them and I intend to go back sometime and have him look again. Maybe he'll have his camera set up and ready to go next time. I'm curious to know if there has been any change in the plaque since I've been using the pauling therapy.


Please let us know about your eyes. In fact, if this eye doctor (former chemist) is interested in helping us collect before/after images of the retinas that would be exciting. With enough of these images, we could develop an expert system that does what Dr. Sydney Bush does - measure the degree of heart disease easily and non-evasively.


It's been awhile since I posted in this thread and I thought it was time to post again here and update since I had an eye test yesterday.

I explained the work of Sydney Bush to the woman who did my eye test and asked her if she'd been trained to look for plaque build up in the eyes. She said she had and that she was aware it could be a problem. She gives eye exams at a local VA hospital and when she sees a plaque build up in patients eyes she notifies the doctors and they check the patients carotid arteries for blockages.

In my previous test the fellow who did the test after my bypass surgery in February of 2015 said he could see plaque in my eyes. Yesterday the lady doing my test couldn't see any sign of plaque :-). I started the paulingtherapy shortly after my bypass surgery and have been on it every day since. I take twenty grams a day of vitamin c and I think most of the supplements Owen recommends in his book.

I recently had a checkup with my cardiologist and they did an EKG that was normal. I don't have any pain or problems and I don't take any prescription medicine but I do take my supplements. My blood pressure is also normal and my cholesterol level has come down using Niacin. I'm active and working pretty much seven days a week with no shortness of breath or pain. I believe the paulingtherapy is the reason I've gotten along so well in my recovery from my bypass surgery.

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Re: 2 Heart Bypass op's and now on Pauling Therapy

Post Number:#69  Post by francisunderwood » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:57 am

John, for someone with no heart issues should I take 500mg or 1 gram of proline per day? Currently taking 6g C, 2g lysine and 1g of proline. I started this because I was already taking lysine for cold sore prevention. Thought at the very least I could get my bp down as well as cholesterol and have been able to do both.


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