Pauling therapy did not work

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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pmfith
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Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#1  Post by pmfith » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:15 pm

My brother, who had already had stents put in 5 years ago, decided to try this therapy.

for 5 years, he religiously took 9 grams of C per day, along with 7 grams of Lysine - all divided during the day.

5 years later, he has almost total blockage in one of his aortas, had a heart attack, and had to have another stent put in.

I'd like to believe in this therapy - but this is a total setback...

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#2  Post by pamojja » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:31 am

Sorry to hear about the failures.

Though I'm really surprised to get the impression from these posts - mentioning only Vitamin C, Lysine and Proline as the wonder pills in 'Pauling Therapy' - while no word is lost about his most basic regimen for better health in his book 'How to Live Longer and Feel Better':

1. Take vitamin C every day, 6 grams (g) to 18 g (6000 to 18000 milligrams [mg]), or more. Do not miss a single day.
2. Take vitamin E every day, 400 IU, 800 IU, or 1600 IU.
3. Take one or two Super-B tablets every day, to provide good amounts of the B vitamins.
4. Take a 25000 IU vitamin A tablet every day.
5. Take a mineral supplement every day, such as one tablet of the Bronson vitamin-mineral formula, which provides 100 mg of calcium, 18 mg of iron, 0.15 mg of iodine, 1 mg of copper, 25 mg of magnesium, 3 mg of manganese, 15 mg of zinc, 0.015 mg of molydenum, 0.015 mg of chromium, and 0.015 mg of selenium.
6. Keep your intake of ordinary sugar (sucrose, raw sugar, brown sugar, honey) to 50 pounds per year, which is half the present U.S. average. Do not add sugar to tea or coffee. Do not eat high-sugar foods. Avoid sweet desserts. Do not drink soft drinks.
7. Except for avoiding sugar, eat what you like - but not too much of any one food. Eggs and meat are good foods. Also, you should eat some vegetables and fruits. Do not eat so much food as to become obese.
8. Drink plenty of water every day.
9. Keep active, take some exercise. Do not at any time exert yourself physically to an extent far beyond what you are accustomed to.
10. Drink alcoholic beverages only in moderation.
11. DO NOT SMOKE CIGARETTES
12. Avoid stress. Work at a job that you like. Be happy with your family.



These are just the basic and multi-factored principles from Linus Pauling to keep good health - how much more if already with bad health?

While I always would also recommend to take blood-test for particular deficiencies, where the amounts Pauling gives wouldn't suffice at all to be able to come out of. Beside all other regular blood markers and specific for cardio vascular disease. The most easy and important I consider postprandial (ie. 1 hour after a meal) blood glucose readings by one of those easily and cheap available meters - and adjustments of one's diet according to one's individual response to different foods. Try to stay at least below 140 mg/dl after every meal, 110 would be were I stop worrying about postprandial blood-glucose being able to contribute much to Arteriosclerosis.

Supplemental-wise there have been some advance in knowledge since Pauling. Nowadays pretty everyone stresses Vitamin D3 according to 25(OH)D3 serum levels, vitamin K in it's forms of K1, K2-mq4 and K2-mq7, Vitamin E in all its tocopherol and tocotrienol forms, CoQ10 and as much magnesium one can stomach, etc.

blade

Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#3  Post by blade » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:12 am

Great summary! Thank you

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#4  Post by tjohnson_nb » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:02 pm

I don't know if Pauling was aware of the 'bowel tolerance' concept or not but it's very possible these people needed far more Vit C than they were taking. I take 16-20 g/day with no major health problems so I would imagine someone with CVD would need at least that if not more.
'Always' and 'never' are 2 words you should always remember never to use.

blade

Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#5  Post by blade » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:34 pm

pamojja wrote:Sorry to hear about the failures.

Though I'm really surprised to get the impression from these posts - mentioning only Vitamin C, Lysine and Proline as the wonder pills in 'Pauling Therapy' - while no word is lost about his most basic regimen for better health in his book 'How to Live Longer and Feel Better':
.


great advice
health issues arent all covered by more vit C intake

Reduce bodyfat to sub 15%
BMI <25
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22530540

eat lots of fruits/veggies/some nuts
http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

exercise(weights/cardio)

control estrogen/testostrone ratio
Low testosterone levels are related to poor prognosis factors in men with prostate cancer prior to treatment.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22584031

I see Pauling recommends copper, while Dr levy says dont take copper
(its in this video, I dont know where)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZYZXHtq-VU

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#6  Post by pmfith » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:02 pm

I'm sorry, but what are we talking about here? We're talking about Pauling Therapy - which is Vitamin C and Lysine / Proline. It's not about anything else, important as those other things may be. You introduce these kinds of variables and there is absolutely NO way of telling what worked and what didn't.

thx,

pmfith

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#7  Post by Johnwen » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:46 pm

My brother, who had already had stents put in 5 years ago


This falls right in the timeline for restenosis of a stent.
Generally they occlude within the first 12 month’s or between 5 and 10 years.
This has plagued the medical industry for many years and is the reason for the newer drug eluding stents (DES).
When a stent is placed it does a severe amount of damage to the endothelium of the artery it’s placed in. Which sets off a cascade of events that includes covering the damaged area with plaque to prevent bleeding into the artery from the external part of the arterial structure.
The DES’s somewhat prevent this by killing the tissue their attached to so they won’t signal the need for covering. However after about 5 to 10 years the body try’s to replace this scared area with functional endothiel cells this sets off another problem of hyperplasia. Which is the over growth of endothiel cells over the problem area.
To understand this better the heart has a tightly regulated amount of nitric oxide. Nitric Oxide is produced by the endothiel cells in the lining of the arteries. When there is an area that don’t produce it’s share ( veins used as bypass’s, scared over stents etc.) the body will do whatever it takes to up it’s levels and sometimes it gets carried away. This over growth can and does get to the point where it can block off the flow of blood.

Puling therapy does not prevent this type of blockage and the only thing one can do is supplement with products that aid in the production of Nitric Oxide.
Some being L-Arginine, L citrulline or the prescription drug Isosorbride Mononitrate which is a slow release nitro glycerin that also adds nitric oxide as a by product. Other nitro compounds don’t appear to have the same effect.

In his case they will probably tell him he’s going to need a bypass because the stents have occluded and a lot of doc’s now a day will not place a stent in a stent.

I’m also pretty sure he also had some BP issues leading up to this and is probably on a pretty large regimen of scripted drugs.

I covered this issue many times before but I guess it’s time for a refresher on it!
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11974&p=40336&hilit=hyperplasia#p40336

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11097&p=34441&hilit=hyperplasia#p34441

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10292&p=30354&hilit=hyperplasia#p30354

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8587&p=23272&hilit=hyperplasia#p23272

Here’s an article on the subject

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2169223/
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#8  Post by pmfith » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:22 am

Thanks, Johnwen - Appreciate the information. I'll check 'em out.
;D

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#9  Post by ofonorow » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:58 am

Yes thank you johnwen. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Referring to the first case, I agree that stents are problematical (although in the case of Carol Smith - combining higher dose vitamin C (in the form of Tower Ascorsine-9) with high dose Unique-E Vitamin E at least made her pain free after her improperly fitted stents caused inflammation and pain.)

My other thought, as the amount of vitamin C and lysine seemed more than adequate in the report, is can you share the kind of vitamin C you (or the patient) was taking? Apparently not all vitamin C is created equal, and if you are a heart patient, why take any chances? Even the best vitamin C is not all that expensive.

Finally, it has been our experience that people do stop the program, for economic or other reasons (like feeling well) and after they do stop, they seem to revert to their previous condition in about six months.

I think I'll split the second failure report into its own topic to discuss
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#10  Post by samarkand » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:10 am

Along with Pauling Therapy would the addition of Serrapeptase assist in keeping a DES clear?

Articles on Dr Nieper report
Serrapeptase dissolves only dead tissues such as the old fibrous layers that clog the lining of our arteries and dangerously restrict the flow of blood and oxygen to the brain. Because of this, Serrapeptase is extremely useful in keeping arterial deposits from building up again after angioplasty (a balloon technique used to clear arterial blockage) or coronary bypass surgery has been performed.

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#11  Post by Joanna45 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:59 pm

The Pauling therapy worked for me. My mesenteric celiac artery and my superior mesenteric artery were approaching 50% narrowing and the cardiologist said they don't do stents until 70 percent blocked ..so went online and did research and found Linus Pauling vitamin C and lysine in the high doses he recommended ..my symptoms were terrible pain after eating ..so was losing weight ..I did all the other tests also endoscopy, ultra sound of the gall bladder ,and pancreas and spleen and all were normal. And they offered me nothing ..after one week on the Pauling thearpy the pain was gone and I could eat again..and I'm back to walking and some running ..I'm beginining to feel like my old self..I also got my vitamin C and lysine from tower laboratories I use the Heart Tech formula for now 2 jars a month and then will stay on one jar forever. My blood pressure has dropped also which is a good thing..

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#12  Post by nineboy » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:18 pm

For me there is some good information here. I continue to take my daily dose of Pauling's therapy. I too am sorry to hear of any failures but you have to keep at it. I added L-arginine sometime ago, 2 grams a day and don't use my nitro spray, plus nitro patches are all out of date. As reported this has been my best year in a long time. So listen to advice and slowly it seems to get easier. No angina right now, stable or unstable that I used to have. So something is working, for me it didn't happen instantly. Not many people I talk to seem to want to try it, however it is fairly easy to keep with as Pauling said. For me I'm staying on it.
I read this comment-Therefore, it is not just a failure of certain treatment strategies, it is much worse – it is a persistent failure to address the problem. Everything that could be considered as part of immune regulation or remotely associated with it has been suggested as cause and thoroughly tested, and it has failed to produce results. Have they thoroughly tried testing Vitamin C, I don't think so. Take care, nineboy. :D

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#13  Post by H.S. Ascorbicus » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:34 am

According to the information Dr. Mark Sircus has compiled in his book Transdermal Magnesium Therapy, magnesium could be the single most important nutrient for heart health. The book is quite an amazing read. He goes into the different ways of optimizing one's magnesium status as well as the purest and most effective forms.

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#14  Post by meesterj » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:03 am

Besides the Pauling Therapy and all of the above supplements I use myself 4000 mg Niacin to keep the bad cholesterol low (In accordance with the recommendations of Abram Hoffer, MD)

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Re: Pauling therapy did not work

Post Number:#15  Post by samarkand » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:46 pm

Which is the best Pauling Therapy formula??

PTEI - The Pauling Therapy Essential Ingredients (from saveyour heart)
or Ascorsine-9 (from Tower)

PEIT seems to have a few additional ingredients - would this improve overall effect? Thoughts please??

Pauling Therapy Essential Ingredients

INGREDIENT AMOUNT % DV
Vitamin A (as natural beta-carotene) 10,000 IU 200
B-2 (Riboflavin) 4 mg 235
Vitamin B-3 (Niacin - inositol hexaniacinate) 450 mg 2250
Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 50 mg 2500
Vitamin B-9 (5-methyltetrahydrofolate) 450 mcg 113
Vitamin B-12 (methylcobalamin) 1,000 mcg 16,667
Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) 3,000 mg 5,000
Vitamin D-3 2,000 IU 500
Vitamin E (as natural d-alpha tocopheryl succinate and mixed tocopherols) 600 IU 2,000
L-Lysine (amino acid) 3000 mg *
L-Proline (amino acid) 550 mg *
L-Arginine (amino acid) 250 mg *
L-Carnitine (amino acid) 300 mg *
L-Taurine (amino acid) 1100 mg *
Creatine 900 mg *
Magnesium (citrate) 200 mg 50
Zinc (oxide) 30 mg 200
Coenzyme Q10 100 mg *
Citrus Bioflavonoids 100 mg *
Other Ingredients: Citric Acid, Sodium Bicarbonate, Stevia Leaf Powder, Natural Lemon Flavor.
_______________________
Ascorsine-9

INGREDIENT AMOUNT % DV
Vitamin A 8500 IU 170
Vitamin B-2 3000 mcg 176
Vitamin B-6 50 mg 2500
Vitamin C 3000 mg 5000
Vitamin E 422 IU 1400
Folic Acid 400 mcg 100
L-Lysine 2800 mg *
L-Proline 500 mg *
L-Arginine 200 mg *
Taurine 1000 mg *
Creatine 844 mg *
Magnesium 150 mg 37
Stevia 55 mg *
Chondroitin Sulfate 1000 mg


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