German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Frodo
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#121  Post by Frodo » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:03 pm

Owen
Who is Jaffee (C Cleanse)? I couldn't find informations about him. And I don't know him.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#122  Post by Frodo » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:56 am

I've found the website of Dr. Russel Jaffe - after searching "Jaffe Cleanse Test". But I have doubts about the test. Dr. Jaffe says "usually a C cleanse result of <_ 4g is a healthy one and a goal for many to achieve".
According to Dr. Steve Hickey the minimum intake is 2-3 grams. "For many this intake will be to low." And " A therapeutic level of vitamin C supplementation used by Dr. Klenner is 350 mg per kilogram bodyweight."
Dr. Hickey recommends for heart disease at least 10 grams.
And I remember animals produce at least 5 grams per day (healthy animals).

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#123  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:24 am

Image

The point of the cleanse - according to Jaffee on his youtube lectures - is to establish how much vitamin C you are currently metabolizing. It is on the order for bowel tolerance, but it is a "pre sickness" approach or calibration. (He did say that the Catchart "bowel tolerance" method is too little, to late.) If you have done the calibration, you'll know your "maximum one-time amount" that can be used for bowel tolerance if you do get sick.

The chart above is "cleanse" or "calibration" data from a population, showing the wide range between individuals, and those on the left are "healthy" while those who require massive amounts of ascorbate are generally "sick," This seems to match my experience. And again, since vitamin C intake requirements vary over a wide range, it is a method for an individual to determine their own requirement. There is no one right answer to the question how much vitamin C should an individual take? Jaffee's work shows that most human intakes should be MUCH larger than commonly believed.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#124  Post by Frodo » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:37 am

I did the test once again today. I needed 40 grams. Since my first test it dropped down from 50 grams, 48 grams to 40 grams actually. Now I take 30 grams daily (75% of 40 grams).

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#125  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:40 am

:D
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#126  Post by Frodo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:50 pm

Owen
In the next week I would like to do a big blood check. Also with the vitamin-, mineral- and amino acid values. Of course also lp(a) and homocysteine. Which values should I measure in addition to lp(a) to check the health of the heart and blood vessels? Another question: Should I measure lp(a) with empty stomach?

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#127  Post by ofonorow » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:23 am

Normally there are fasting rules for the various blood draws, and it makes sense with any cholesterol test to fast, because chol. levels change based on the food you are eating. (We found this out when the home-cholesterol finger-prick devices were readily available. The type of wine affected the cholesterol number.)

The ordinary cholesterol numbers provide an indicator. As long as Lp(a) is measured, it is the best indicator of how successful your nutritional program is and has been. Johnwen may have other ideas, as there are markers of inflammation, etc.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#128  Post by Frodo » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:53 am

OK and thanks, Owen. I'll report when I've got the new lab values.
(And I hope Johnwen will read your message and help)

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#129  Post by Frodo » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:16 am

I did the Jaffee test once again. I needed 35 grams. Now I'll take 26 grams/day (75% of 35 g). I see it works. It dropped down from 40 grams three weeks ago.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#130  Post by ofonorow » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:08 am

Curious, are you using sodium ascorbate or ascorbic acid for the Jaffee calibration?
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#131  Post by Frodo » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:59 am

Sodium ascorbate and magnesium ascorbate.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#132  Post by Frodo » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:34 pm

I received my blood tests today. Lp(a) didn't change. It's the same as it was 3 months ago. 164 nmol (ref. value: <75). Damn it. What can it be? I take 26 grams vitamin C (checked by Jaffee test), about 9 grams lysin, 1,5 grams prolin, 1,5 grams niacin and other nutrients.
The other values: cholesterol 247 mg/dl, LDL 139 mg/dl, HDL 96 mg/dl, apo A1: 184 g/dl (ref. value 90-170), apo B: 111 mg/dl, HbA1c: 5,3 %, triglyceride 36 mg/dl (ref. value <150).

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#133  Post by ofonorow » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:03 am

cholesterol 247 mg/dl,
Ideally, with the optimum vitamin C intake that number would be closer to 180 mg/dl. So a guess is that there is still some "fire" in your system that needs to be put out with even more "water" (vitamin C.)

The understanding is that the body produces cholesterol in response to toxins - as part of the general detox system... Have we discussed your mouth before? Do you have mercury amalgams/root canals?

As far as lowering already elevated Lp(a) - there aren't any experiments that I am aware of showing you can lower Lp(a), only that it becomes elevated when vitamin C is lacking (Pauling/Rath). We have anecdotal reports from this forum, such as myself, johnwen, etc. whose Lp(a) is very low after years of high vitamin C and lysine.

I think if you find out what the fire is in your body, and stick with the vitamin C, eventually the Lp(a) will begin to go lower.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#134  Post by skwoodwiva » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:41 am

Frodo wrote:I received my blood tests today. Lp(a) didn't change. It's the same as it was 3 months ago. 164 nmol (ref. value: <75). Damn it. What can it be? I take 26 grams vitamin C (checked by Jaffee test), about 9 grams lysin, 1,5 grams prolin, 1,5 grams niacin and other nutrients.
The other values: cholesterol 247 mg/dl, LDL 139 mg/dl, HDL 96 mg/dl, apo A1: 184 g/dl (ref. value 90-170), apo B: 111 mg/dl, HbA1c: 5,3 %, triglyceride 36 mg/dl (ref. value <150).

Why not try "my" daily Bowel tolerance method?

viewtopic.php?p=51133#p51133

Forget the usual quick method, just up your dose by small amounts daily.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#135  Post by skwoodwiva » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:44 am

I eventually ended up tripling my usual dose of 25 grams


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