German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:15 am

Hello,
I'am trying for a longtime to drop down my Lp(a). Unfortunately without success. The figures still range from 0,60 to 1,10 g/l. I've yet tested 10 to 30 gram Vitamin C and 5-6 gram Lysine. After reading the book from Owen Fonorow "Practicing Medicine without a License" I've supplemented 1 to 2 gram Proline since one month. After this month I've tested the blood level again. But it is unchanged yet.

Therefore my question: Why does my Lp(a)-level not drop down? Was the time after supplementation with Proline to short? I want to call you for advice what to do or how I can do it better? I've had two heart attacks. And 4 stents implanted. The doctors say: your lp(a), it's genetic and you can't change it. You have to take Aspirin, Statins, BetaBlocker and so on lifelong. But I don't want and don't believe it.

I'm a competitive athlete, nonsmoker, body-mass-index 20. And... I've read the hopeful books from Linus Pauling, Matthias Rath, Owen Fonorow, Thomas Levy, Steve Hickey, Andrew Saul, Abram Hoffer and so on.
With best Wishes


I don't recognize those units, but assuming they are high (what is considered normal?) I can tell you what we think we know (no one is studying this.)

A) You are correct to keep taking vitamin C, lysine and proline which Pauling/Rath patented as "Lp(a) Binding Inhibitors". This means that even if blood Lp(a) levels do not decline, these nutrients will make it less likely your arteries will continue to narrow and less likely that you will suffer a heart attack.

B) In the early research, Pauling and Rath did not prove that elevated Lp(a) would decline, only that Lp(a) would not become elevated by taking the correct dosage of vitamin C (in guinea pigs). Once Lp(a) becomes elevated we enter the world of anecdotes - not science.

C) As I relate in the book (thanks for reading) a NY medical professor was testing his Lp(a) taking vitamin C and lysine - every six months. Lp(a) only dropped the expected 30%... Then he added proline, forgot to take the next 6 month measurement, but a year later with the addition of proline, his Lp(a) had plummeted to ZERO. (That's when he called me to tell me about this experiment). We note that the high dose Pauling Therapy users at this forum who report their Lp(a) (including mine) are close to zero, and I have a family history of heart disease.

So keep taking the Pauling therapy, and if you stay on proline, I predict that the Lp(a) will eventually drop. If you test regularly, please report back to us. Thank you.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:23 am

I don't recognize those units, but assuming they are high (what is considered normal?)


0,60 to 1,10 g/l. Assuming the (,) should have Been a (.) Ie. 0.60 to 1.10 g/L

You simple multiply by 10 and get 60mg/dl to 110mg/dl.

Which is high!! Should be < 30mg/dl Closer to zero the better!!

Since he is active and has a history of CAD! He needs to stay on Pauling therapy EVERYDAY!

Once again! Take his body weight in kilograms and go for a therapeutic range of a 100+mg per kilogram.

EXAMPLE if he weights 89 kilograms! Then 89 X 100mg = 8900mg of VC per day. Taken in equal doses during the day! Lysine should be 90% of V-C or in this case 8010mg. This should be including food content. If he finds he’s getting stomach discomfort then he could back down.
L-Proline should be at 10 % of V-C in this case 890mg.

These figures are baseline figures More would be better! 120-150Mg/Kg would be better.

Now if he wants to get his LP(a) Down he should start on Niacin (nicotinic acid) If all his liver tests look good start at 1000mg at bedtime to sleep through the flush. After a while he could shoot for 2000mg.

Once again don’t expect immediate results these are NOT DRUGS they are supplements which give the body what it needs to heal itself.
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#3  Post by zarfas » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:19 pm

you guys have loads of great information
thanks for helping us all out

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#4  Post by hvc » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:01 pm

Johnwen
I am currently taking 55 grams of vitamin c and my lp(a) is somewhat stagnant. My daily intake of lysine is 6 grams and proline is 1 gram. I am incresing to 60 grams vitamin c. should i be increasing lysine and proline as well?

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#5  Post by exitium » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:13 pm

hvc wrote:Johnwen
I am currently taking 55 grams of vitamin c and my lp(a) is somewhat stagnant. My daily intake of lysine is 6 grams and proline is 1 gram. I am incresing to 60 grams vitamin c. should i be increasing lysine and proline as well?


id say your 6g of lysine is fine but probably want to bump up the proline dose.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#6  Post by hvc » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:22 pm

To what?

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#7  Post by Frodo » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:50 pm

What is your Lp(a) blood level? And how long do you use PT (Pauling Therapy)?

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#8  Post by hvc » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:03 pm

between 45-50.

been on therapy for over a year. have been increasing intake of vit c.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#9  Post by Frodo » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:29 pm

Do you also take Lipo-C or only ascorbic acid? I'll increase my C intake too. At the moment between 10 -20 gram. And my blood level Lp(a) 60-80.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#10  Post by hvc » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:35 pm

I take cardio-c and supplement with 100mg solgar capsules.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#11  Post by Frodo » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:59 pm

Last question. All the docs in Germany say, Lp(a) is genetic and there is nothing you can do. What about the docs in America?

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#12  Post by ofonorow » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:59 am

Most studies show that vitamin C can lower Lp(a) about 30%. Life Extension experts have pointed to research showing that carnitine can lower Lp(a), how much is unclear. But "docs in America" are generally ignorant of Lp(a). Part of the reason is that statin cholesterol-lowering drugs have been shown to INCREASE Lp(a) (Supporting the Pauling/Rath theory) but the warnings are not required in USA versions of the medical journals. The Canadian journals, on the other hand, are required by Canada to have the warnings about elevated Lp(a) and the fact that statins lower circulating levels of CoQ10.

This scan of the Canadian version of the NEJM was sent to me by a Canadian.. Note the yellow highlights
http://naturesperfectstatin.com/canada.htm

What we think is new and only known to members of this forum and the readers of http://PaulingTherapy.com is that Lp(a) drops on the Pauling therapy, but only after the addition of the amino acid proline. Since the proline binding site is how the sticky apo(a) attaches to the LDL particle (creating Lp(a) ), it is a reasonable assumption that perhaps elevated proline interferes with the construction of Lp(a). If this is true, since Lp(a) acts as a surrogate for low vitamin C, you wouldn't want to take high proline without also supplementing high vitamin C.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#13  Post by hvc » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:57 am

Owen, based on your last post, how much proline should i be taking with 60.5 grams of vitamin c? i take 3 scoops of cardio-c and supplement the rest with 1000mg of solgar vitamin c capsules. The only lysine and proline i am taking are in the 3 scoops of cardio-c.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#14  Post by Frodo » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:02 am

Thanks for your answer and information, Owen. Great! I think it's really clear. Lp(a) can't be genetic. Native peoples don't know heart attacks. Just as animals. If Lp(a) would be genetic, native peoples should have had it too. And then they should have suffered heart attacks. But I've never heard or read about it. According Linus Pauling and Matthias Rath, it's convincing that Lp(a) isn't' genetic and must be a naturally reaction of our body. A surrogate for the lack of vitamin c. And the opinion of the doctors? They always say "it's genetic", if they don't know. And that is unfortunately quite often. According Andrew Saul and Steve Hickey: "Fire Your Doctor"!

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#15  Post by ofonorow » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:20 pm

hvc wrote:Owen, based on your last post, how much proline should i be taking with 60.5 grams of vitamin c? i take 3 scoops of cardio-c and supplement the rest with 1000mg of solgar vitamin c capsules. The only lysine and proline i am taking are in the 3 scoops of cardio-c.


I think you get more than enough of the amino acids with 3 scoops -- no matter what your Lp(a) happens to be, but knowing the real Lp(a) measurement would be interesting.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”


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