German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#16  Post by ofonorow » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:28 pm

Frodo wrote:Thanks for your answer and information, Owen. Great! I think it's really clear. Lp(a) can't be genetic. Native peoples don't know heart attacks. Just as animals. If Lp(a) would be genetic, native peoples should have had it too. And then they should have suffered heart attacks. But I've never heard or read about it. According Linus Pauling and Matthias Rath, it's convincing that Lp(a) isn't' genetic and must be a naturally reaction of our body. A surrogate for the lack of vitamin c. And the opinion of the doctors? They always say "it's genetic", if they don't know. And that is unfortunately quite often. According Andrew Saul and Steve Hickey: "Fire Your Doctor"!


A little confusing...A "thing" can be "genetic" yet it can be easily treated. For example, our GULO defect that causes our vitamin C deficiency. We take supplemental vitamin C to overcome our bad "genetics."

So what the doctors are implying is that there are no known drugs that lower Lp(a). (And this is true as common heart drugs ELEVATE Lp(a).) The question is whether the Pauling Therapy (and/or other nutrients) can affect Lp(a) and the jury is still out (and not studied).

In any case, any reader with heart disease and elevated Lp(a) should realize that Pauling's invention is called "Lp(a) Binding Inhibitors" for a reason. It makes the otherwise very "sticky" Lp(a) unable to adhere to the arterial wall (because the lysine receptor is already filled from lysine in the blood.) Ditto proline. One of the 3 or possibly 4 Pauling/Rath patents for Lp(a) binding inhibitors is for the invention of dropping organs during transplants into a solution of vitamin C (and a lysine analog). The plaque literally melts away.

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5230996.PN.&OS=PN/5230996&RS=PN/5230996
Moral: According to Linus Pauling, if you have high Lp(a) you need to be taking high doses of vitamin C, lysine and proline to inactivate the Lp(a) in the blood.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#17  Post by Frodo » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:29 pm

Thank you, Johnwen for your advices. I'll try it. My weight is about 67 kg and height 184 cm. And at the moment I take 20 gram and more vitamin C, 6 gram Lysin and 1,5 gram Prolin, 1 gram Niacin. Now I've intensified to 10 gram Lysin, 2 gram Prolin and 2 gram Niacin (50% flush free). If I have new results, I'll report to the forum.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#18  Post by Frodo » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:41 pm

Yes, Owen, I was not correct. The docs say: "Increased" Lp(a) is genetic and there is nothing you can do.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#19  Post by hvc » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:53 pm

I think you get more than enough of the amino acids with 3 scoops -- no matter what your Lp(a) happens to be, but knowing the real Lp(a) measurement would be interesting.


Owen, the number is between 46-50.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#20  Post by ofonorow » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:37 am

mg/dl?
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#21  Post by hvc » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:40 pm

Yes owen mg/dl

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#22  Post by Frodo » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:35 am

I've controlled my blood levels once more. And Lp(a) level did decline to 49. From 100 to 86 and now 49 mg/dl. During 3 months PT. It really works. Great!

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#23  Post by ofonorow » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:34 am

Thank you for the report.
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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#24  Post by Frodo » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:39 pm

Next blood test in July. Until then I'll continue taking vitamin C 10-20 gram, lysine 6-10 gram, proline 1,5-2 gram and niacin 1,5 gram (and the other nutrients).

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#25  Post by TommyTurtle » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:14 pm

This is very helpful information, thank you to contributors above

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#26  Post by TommyTurtle » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:26 pm

Frodo wrote: I think it's really clear. Lp(a) can't be genetic. Native peoples don't know heart attacks. Just as animals. If Lp(a) would be genetic, native peoples should have had it too. And then they should have suffered heart attacks.


I have very high Lp(a), but no family history of heart issues, strokes, MI's. When I was diagnosed I accepted that it was genetic and advised my 3 siblings and my 4 children to have their Lp(a) levels tested. All very low.

So my thinking is that it may be a genetic trait in certain families, but not necessarily so.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#27  Post by Frodo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:17 am

Hello TommyTurtle
I don't think so. I believe, according to Linus Pauling and Matthias Rath it's caused by a lack of vitamins for a long time, first and especially vitamin c. Doctors always say "it's genetic" if they don't know the root cause, for example cancer, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, heart disease and so on.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#28  Post by TommyTurtle » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:39 am

In my case it's definitely not genetic. My family line from both sides have longevity. Parents, grandparents and previous generations living into their 90's with no cancer, heart issues, etc.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#29  Post by Frodo » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:20 am

I've measured my blood values for amino acids. I'm astonished, cause the proline value is only 212 nmol/ml (Reference value 97-330). Although I take 1,5 grams proline daily. On the other hand, lysine is OK (312 nmol/ml - ref. value: 139-240). Therefore I'll increase proline to 2,5 grams each day.

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Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Post Number:#30  Post by Lunes Payling » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:47 am

Everything is in some sense "genetic" because that is how our traits are passed from generation to generation - as opposed to what, being caused by environment or diet? How we react to environment or diet is due to our "genetics." Anyway, this from the Pauling/Rath patent..

Essentially all human blood contains lipoprotein(a); however, there can a thousand-fold range in its plasma concentration between individuals. High levels of Lp(a) are associated with a high incidence of cardiovascular disease. Armstrong, V. W., et al. (1986) Atherosclerosis 62: 249-257; Dahlen, G., et al. (1986) Circulation 74: 758-765; Miles, L. A., et al. (1989) Nature 339: 301-302; Zenker, G., et al. (1986). Stroke 17: 942-945 (The term occlusive cardiovascular disease will be used hereafter as including all pathological states leading to a narrowing and/or occlusion of blood vessels throughout the body, but particularly atherosclerosis, thrombosis and other related pathological states, especially as occurs in the arteries of the heart muscle and the brain.)
http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5278189.PN.&OS=PN/5278189&RS=PN/5278189


Not many blood factors vary by a "thousand-fold range" so an evolutionary theory is that for the billions of years that our ancestors could make their own vitamin C, the need for Lp(a) was minimal. After the GULO defect and loss of ability to make vitamin C, those with the ability to make Lp(a) had an evolutionary advantage. So the advent of higher Lp(a) is rather new, probably in the last 3 million years or so.


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