Page 5 of 10

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:38 am
by pamojja
francisunderwood wrote:Does anyone know of a good vitamin e tocopherol mix that is not mostly the alpha tocopherol?


I use this.

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:51 am
by francisunderwood
pamojja wrote:
francisunderwood wrote:Does anyone know of a good vitamin e tocopherol mix that is not mostly the alpha tocopherol?


I use this.



Thank you, that is along the lines of what I was looking for!

I think 300mg of Gamma is about 200 IU if I did the conversion right.

Do you take any other Vitamin E?

I am not sure if I need them but in my current plans there will be no delta or beta forms of the tocopherols in my 3 separate vitamin e pills.

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:06 am
by Frodo
I've got the results from my new blood test. And I'm disapponted in it. Lp(a) increased to 0,92 g/l from 0,49 g/l three months ago. I don't understand it. Why has it increased? I took 10 to 20 grams vitamin C every day (ascorbic acid) - additional 10 grams infusions every week -, 6 grams l-lysine, 2 grams l-proline, 1 to 2 grams niacine, omega-3 and so on. And nevertheless it increased. Why? What to do? Should I take more C or another form of C?

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:46 am
by Frodo
Additional: According to Steve Hickey's and Hillary Roberts table "Approximate Importance Of Risk Factors For Heart Attack" Lp(a) has a relative risk of 1,2 and the end of the table. The largest single factor is CRP, with a relative risk of almost 4, follwed by apolipoprotein B, LDL, total cholesterol and homocysteine. And last lp(a). OK, it calms down!

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:56 am
by ofonorow
Lp(a) increased to 0,92 g/l from 0,49 g/l three months ago.


Not sure about those commas, but I think 0.92 grams is 920 mg/liter or 92 mg/deciliter? 92 versus 9.2 if a decimal is off is a big deal.

92 is very high. 9.2 is okay.

If very high, then you are doing exactly the correct thing - taking Lp(a) binding inhibitors to help nullify all that Lp(a) that is being produced.

Anecdotally, adding proline is the only way we've noticed that seems to lower Lp(a) production. And it can take a year or more.

The Pauling/Rath experiments with guinea pigs only showed that with sufficient vitamin C in the diet, Lp(a) didn't elevate (as it will when vitamin C levels are low). I know of no experiments showing that elevated Lp(a), one elevated, is reduced by vitamin C and lysine. Everything is anecdotal.

Out of curiosity, what brand/type of vitamin C are you taking?

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:20 am
by Frodo
Reference value of the lab is <0,34 g/l (I think that means gram/liter). My actual value is 0,92 g/l.
And the form of vitamin C: I take predominant ascorbic acid powder, In addition vitamin C infusions (10 grams) at time.
Remark: At the weekend I attended a conference with Dr. Rath. And I told him, that my Lp(a) decreased from 100 to 49 during Pauling-Rath-Th. One week later I got the new values. And that are not the good news i awaited for.

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:08 pm
by guitarplayer007
I don't get, your LPa decreased by almost half, but then went back up? Did you stop the therapy?

Ken

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:45 pm
by Frodo
No, I didn't stop the therapy. Since January 2017 I take 10 to 20 g vitamin C, 6 to 8 g l-lysine, 2 g proline, 1 to 2 g niacine and so on, every day. In April I had a lp(a) value 49. And now, in September it increased to 92. Could it be that there is more lp(a) in my blood because, due to PT, it disappears from my plaques (I remember that I've read something like this, but I can't remember if it was lp(a)?

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:55 pm
by guitarplayer007
I know in Dr. Raths book he does say your numbers could get worse when start. VC therapy, so you just need to take again in few months. Was it the same lab that did blood work?

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:34 pm
by Frodo
Yes, it was the same lab.

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:03 am
by ofonorow
One of the problems with measuring Lp(a) is that it varies greatly in size - making the weight misleading. Lets consider 10 particles. If the 10 are smaller ones, weigh less, they are more atherogenic, so a greater weight may mean less risk.. that the Lp(a) is larger. This is probably why today they measure in particles (nmol/l) here in the USA. Do you have any more information about the Lp(a)? And in the USA we have problems in that the FDA allows labs to "compute" (rather than measure) Lp(a). Did you report your LDL cholesterol?

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:16 am
by Frodo
ofonorow wrote:One of the problems with measuring Lp(a) is that it varies greatly in size - making the weight misleading. Lets consider 10 particles. If the 10 are smaller ones, weigh less, they are more atherogenic, so a greater weight may mean less risk.. that the Lp(a) is larger. This is probably why today they measure in particles (nmol/l) here in the USA. Do you have any more information about the Lp(a)? And in the USA we have problems in that the FDA allows labs to "compute" (rather than measure) Lp(a). Did you report your LDL cholesterol?


Owen
I have no more information about the size of my lp(a).
The labs measured:
in January 100 mg/dl (ref. value <30)
in April 49 mg/dl (ref. value <30)
in June 137 nmol/l (ref. value <75)
in September 92 mg/dl (ref. value <30) or 0,92 g/l (it's the same).
The only nmol value was measured in June. I've asked the lab. They said 137 nmol is nearby 49 mg/dl. And from June to September it increased to 92 mg/dl or 0,92 g//? I can't believe it.

My LDL value, also measured in September 2017, was 114 mg/dl (ref. value <130). Ox. LDL: 54 U/l (ref. value <55).

Could it be that there are more lp(a) particles in my blood circulation, due to PT, because lp(a) particles remove from my plaques?
I think, I read about it in a book from Matthias Rath.

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:38 am
by Frodo
Owen
I've asked Matthias Rath as well. He says, it is possible that lp(a) temporary increases in case of treating with vitamin C-lysine-proline-therapy. Because it works. And he refered to his book "Warum kennen Tiere keinen Herzinfarkt..", chapter 3.

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:01 am
by ofonorow
This doesn't add up. At least in the past when you got a LDL cholesterol number - it included Lp(a) because it is a subset of LDL.

in September 92 mg/dl (ref. value <30) or 0,92 g/l (it's the same).

My LDL value, also measured in September 2017, was 114 mg/dl (ref. value <130).


Your numbers are saying that 92 of your 114 "measured" LDL is Lp(a).

Either something has changed that I missed about testing Lp(a), or they are calculating (not measuring), because I don't think it is possible to live with only 22 "real" LDL.

The nmol/l is a confirmation that your Lp(a) is elevated, so again, taking Lp(a) binding inhibitors makes sense.

Re: German trying to use PT to lower Lp(a) without success

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:21 am
by Frodo
Owen
That's a very interesting point.
I asked the lab. The lab used nephelometry method. And the device used for the analysis is a nephelometer, probably Siemens N Latex. What do you think on the accuracy? I don't know much about this method.
What do the labs use in Chicago?