My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

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guitarplayer007
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My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#1  Post by guitarplayer007 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:13 am

From 20 mg of Simvastatin to 5mg of Crestor....I'm so pissed with this cholesterol debate.... I read all these bad things about how lowing your cholesterol is actually bad. Dr. Rath tells you to stop taking statins............ I'm losing my fing mind. My LAD has a calcium score of 750
Then I've seen the studies on plant based diets reversing CVD in large studies. I watched videos on the Blue zones where people have virtually none of the chronic disease people on western diets have and they are basically plant based. this is very annoying . I'm 57 and don't want to have a heart attack, been taking 17000mg of vitamin C for the last 10 weeks. Dr. Rath states that it can take 6 months to stop Calcium progression, then hopefully you get some reversal.

Ken

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:43 am

It appears your doc isn’t worried about you calcium!
Because he keeps pushing drugs that promote it.
HMMMM!

http://coconutoil.com/study-cholesterol ... ium-tests/

http://www.siliconvalleyfit.com/blog/bi ... cification

https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/2 ... king-them/

http://www.onlinejacc.org/content/65/13/1273

There’s a lot more out there on this subject!

Have you had a Echocardiogram done?
I would say to have a talk with your Doc about one with a emphasis on the valves of the heart.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#3  Post by hvc » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:05 pm

Is that the case for red yeast rice as well?

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#4  Post by Lunes Payling » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:44 am

A statin is a statin - so yes to "red yeast rice."

With respect to Johnwen, a glaring exception, the people on this planet who know the least about the true nature of cardiovascular disease are cardiologists!

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#5  Post by Alafairsmom » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:21 am

Amen to that, Owen. I asked mine what his plan was to treat the underlying causes, and he said there are a lot of causes and most of them are out of control, so let's reroute the vasculature, put you on statins, and hope for the best. I suggested Let's not and say we did. Or, as Captain Barrasso said, I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request; means no!

I'm pulling for Team Pauling, and am decreasing inflammation and weight to the best of my ability. I appreciate your dedication to this forum and all it stands for. Keep up.tge great work.

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:44 am

You first posted in March. Status? How is it going? Are you still on any drugs?
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#7  Post by Alafairsmom » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:45 pm

I'm not sure if you were posting to me, Owen, but if you were, still on PT, not noticing any relief. I am only taking two prescriptions: Imdur (isosorbide mononitrite, long acting nitrate) and nitro sublingual. As I posted elsewhere, I had an MI early June. I follow Richard K Bernstein's diet but use no diet drinks or artificially sweetened foods including sugar free jello. No sugar, no sugar substitutes, no sweeteners. I still have angina several times every day, with minimal exertion. I let my cardiologist put me on a very low dose of metoprolol in the hospital, 12.5 mg twice a day. I had developed dysrhythmia on 50 mg twice a day several months ago and weaned off it so I was reluctant. Same as before I developed dysrhythmia almost at the same point, 2 weeks after starting it. He didn't believe me, but when I went in he did a portable telemetry reading and said, huh. That's a lot of PVCs. Yeah. It felt like an animal trying to fight its way out of my chest, and finally subsided 4 days after my last dose of metoprolol. Sheesh. I would not take the statins offered, and refuse Repatha. My Lp-a is <10. In the hospital I refused an angiogram because I'd have ended up with stents or a stroke or another MI, or dead.... My ejection fraction had not changed post MI. Still hanging in there, and am taking everything recommended in PMWAL. I did take serrapeptase and natto kinase for a month then had to cut back because I had severe diarrhea after taking it. Like within about 15-20 minutes. So, if you asked, thanks. If you didn't, TMI, sorry. I haven't been on the site lately.

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:18 am

I was, sorry to hear your aren't improving, and it is very surprising given what must be low blood sugar and doing everything right. I hope johnwen comments about the drugs. (At first glance, I assume the nitrates are to dilate you arteries providing more blood flow?)

Perhaps a safer alternative would be 3 grams of the amino acid arginine. Creates the NO molecule, which will also helps dilate the arteries.

You say you are doing everything in PMWAL. Does that include vitamin K and Coenzyme Q10? And vitamin E? Magnesium? (I would now add Pantethine at 2-3 grams with 500 mg carnitine to the list)

If the measured Lp(a) is that low, there may be some other structural reason for your "angina" - (rather than the usual blockages in coronary arteries which restrict blood flow in the heart's own circulatory system.) Personal anecdote. Before the series of medical adventures that led to the removal of part of my pancreas, I had severe chest pains in the hospital. So I was taken to cardiology and given a Thalium stress test which I passed with flying colors. Later during the pancreas surgery, they removed my gall bladder, because it was in poor shape and full of gall stones. No doubt the pain I had interpreted as "chest pain" near the heart was caused by the gall bladder. Johnwen would have infinitely more perspective of what may really be going on in your case. The nutrition is to cover all bases.

Added, and thinking outside the box. You say you follow Bernstein's diet. He likes blood sugar around 80 mg/dl. I trust him, but what if that works for him, a Type I diabetic, but is not the correct blood sugar for the average individual? What if your heart is getting sufficient blood, but not enough glucose to power it? What if your low blood sugar is creating an energy deficit? If this were the case, from what we are learning about vitamin B5 (pantethine/coenzyme A) then converting your metabolism to burn fats, which it can more efficiently than it can burn carbs/glucose, adding vitamin B5 may be the answer in your case. Its either raise blood sugars, or utilize fats for energy which requires b5.

Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#9  Post by Alafairsmom » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:33 pm

I follow Bernstein but my blood sugars just don't go that low. Last A1c was June, 5.4. Too high for him but I'm OK with it. I tend to have 100-110 BS in am mid 80's otherwise. I take vitamin K2, Omega 3, E, magnesium, CoQ10, everything that you mentioned, including TMG. I could add pantethine, but Johnwen has mentioned in the past that he likes nitro. I find it very helpful, especially when I take it at the very first onset of pain. I take 60 mg in the am and 60 in the PM. The angina is from a heavy calcium plaque burden. Totaling around 1400 I think, and I have several known blockages. I do take argenine, too. And tart cherry in capsule form, as the extract has too many carbs per serving. I originally had an A1c of 11.8 on diagnosis, tried the diabetic medical treatment which made me very sick and my blood sugars were out of control. I switched to Atkins and in a week and a half my glucose stabilized and I was off metformin and glyburide. I was expecting the same turn around with PT, but it's not so speedy. I still think it is my best and only chance of surviving this CAD. I take 2 K2 daily, one in the am and one in the PM, with something fatty. Cheese or an almond milk with a splash of heavy whipping cream. I welcome advice, except as I have said in the past, the Esselstyn type...if it worked as Zarfas and Ken say, they would be doing it and would have been cured months ago and not needing this site. It's not a godsend for diabetics, especially the absolutely no fats or oils of Esselstyn. That would mean no Omega3, CoQ10, E or other oils. That's my rant about vegan, no oil. If others can use it successfully great, but it will not work for me and my Type 2. Many plants spike my blood sugar, and I've stopped fruit as well to comply with Bernstein. I appreciate your response, Owen. I'm not disappointed in PT, just know that the calcium burden and blockages are severely impeding progress.

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#10  Post by francisunderwood » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:22 pm

Alafairsmom, what is your height and weight? And is it type 1 or 2?

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#11  Post by zarfas » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:30 pm

Alafairsmom wrote:I follow Bernstein but my blood sugars just don't go that low....... I
I switched to Atkins and in a week and a half my glucose stabilized and I was off metformin and glyburide. I was expecting the same turn around with PT, but it's not so speedy. I still think it is my best and only chance of surviving this CAD. I take 2 K2 daily, one in the am and one in the PM, with something fatty. Cheese or an almond milk with a splash of heavy whipping cream. I welcome advice, except as I have said in the past, the Esselstyn type..

so how much fat are you eating a day?
what's your height/weight?


Alafairsmom wrote:.if it worked as Zarfas and Ken say, they would be doing it and would have been cured months ago


why do you think I'm here?
I'm on a plant based diet and have no CAD issues, diabetes, hairloss, etc and I dont need this site, but I'm here to help other people in my life and the occasional poster and learn from owen/edoc/ and a few others

Alafairsmom" It's not a godsend for diabetics, especially the absolutely no fats or oils of Esselstyn. That would mean no Omega3, CoQ10, E or other oils. That's my rant about vegan, no oil. If others can use it successfully great, but it will not work for me and my Type 2. Many plants spike my blood sugar, and I've stopped fruit as well to comply with Bernstein. I appreciate your response, Owen. I'm not disappointed in PT, just know that the calcium burden and blockages are severely impeding progress.[/quote]
no, the body needs fats, but as I asked you, how much fat are you getting? as you said:
cheese?(these have omega 3s?)
[quote="Alafairsmom wrote:
. Cheese or an almond milk with a splash of heavy whipping cream

have you watched "DEBUNKING WHAT THE HEALTH FILM w/ Dr. Neal Barnard"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJr3MUNc14Y

or just watch WHAT THE HEALTH"
Fat causes diabetes!
go low fat, eat veggies and fruit some fat EFAs, co10, k2.and lean protien(to get lyine/proline for PT, like from eggwhites)
and lose some fat, workout, walk a lot.
and get back to us

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#12  Post by zarfas » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:57 pm

ofonorow wrote:[b][color=#000080]
Perhaps a safer alternative would be 3 grams of the amino acid arginine. Creates the NO molecule, which will also helps dilate the arteries.
]



or some garden veggies to get the nitrartes you need
https://www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-Vegg ... B0009ETA80

as talked about in this study about nitrates from The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition(I have no idea if that's real or just made up, but the text is not about selling anything, so maybe?

yeah google shows, "AJCN was selected by the Special Libraries Association (SLA) as one of the top 100 most influential journals in Biology and Medicine over the last 100 years."

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/1/1.full

Note that a desiccated vegetable dietary supplement (Nature's Way Garden Veggies; Nature's Way Products Inc, Springville, UT) had the highest nitrate and nitrite concentrations of any food tested, ie, 27,890 and 10.5 mg/100 g FW, respectively. Each capsule of this supplement contains 900 mg desiccated vegetable product, and label recommendations suggest a daily intake of 2 capsules daily, which equates to >500 mg nitrate and 0.2 mg nitrite per day.

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#13  Post by Johnwen » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:19 pm

The half life of Imdur (Isosorbide monitrate ER) is 5 hours and action cycle is 12 hours.
I guessing this ladies doc is dosing her on 30mg. Once a day!
Which means it isn’t doing nothing after 12 hours and the pain is returning then sublingual Nitro only gives about 30 minutes relief.
I’m also guessing, he’s thinking Prinzmetal angina now that she exhibited PVC’s on beta blockers which is a contraindicated for PA.

I’m thinking he should also add a DHP-CCB such as Norvasc (Amlodipine Besylate) in low dose since she’s not exhibiting raised BP as evident by her not being on any BP meds. This would also help calm the vasospasms.

Notice I said Norvasc or Vintage (AB) because they have the required type of salts used in their production to block vasospasms.

Definitely stay away from NonDNP-Ccb’s such as Cartia XT or Tiazac AKA as Diltiazem!

Just another rookie rusty one, acting like the boss, in the shadow of Edoc!
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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#14  Post by Alafairsmom » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:33 pm

Hi Johnwen, the Imdur is 60 mg TWICE a day. The cardiologist didn't mention Prinzmetal and was not receptive to Norvasc, just said I really should not have PVCs on the metoprolol since it is supposed to prevent dysrhythmias. I did ask about Norvasc (DAW) as you suggested it before. BP is usually 110's/60's, in the morning can be quite low 80's/50's, until I carefully get up and about, and hydrate. I'm typically asymptomatic with the hypotension, until it's diastolic mid 40's, then I sometimes have spots before my eyes, and I sit tight until the pressure increases, then get up slowly after monitoring my BP. Thus, hypertension is not an issue except when having angina, especially if I let it get away from me. Thanks.

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Re: My Cardiologist wants to switch my statin

Post Number:#15  Post by Johnwen » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:28 pm

While I guess were going to have to educate your doc a little bit.
The problem here is since Prinzmetal or aka Variant angina or aka vasospasms are a random occurrence and unless your hooked up to a EKG when they occur they are elusive.
So based on this one must turn to symptoms and reactions to certain drugs to lead you down the path to a positive diagnosis.

First let’s go over quickly what they are!
I’m sure anyone of who pushed ourselves a little to hard such as a real long fast walk or playing some sport have gotten a leg cramp or a spasm in a muscle.

Well one of the things that make an artery a artery is that the tube that carry’s the blood is surrounded by a muscle. This muscle it what regulates the size of the tube and varies the pressure inside. This goes into fluid dynamics and I’m not going there right now!

However that muscle like any other muscle when over used or conditions such as nourishment or a clot are present can in fact spasm. Just like a leg spasm or cramp it usually passes within a short period of time. But can reoccur if corrective action is not taken or proper treatment is not administered. One of the main components in keeping the heart arteries from spasming is Nitrous Oxide.

How do you get this? Well it’s produced normally by the endothiel cells which line the tube of the artery produce it as a byproduct and it’s reabsorbed back into the muscle of the artery causing it to relax. As one ages this process can be interrupted or the artery tube develops a build up which block the reabsorbtion process the muscle will then constrict or in the worst case get cranky and start to spasm. It’s also a problem where a vein is used for a bypass since veins don’t have endothiel cells and the body wants to know why and it crates a deficit of NO since it’s using it to try and entice this new tube to grow endothiel cells which the vein bypass can’t do.
Anyway you get the idea that something is messing up the balance of NO in the system and the arteries aren’t happy about the lack of NO and they spasm and cause pain.

This is where the Nitro dugs and supplements such Arginine or citrulline come into play. They add too what’s not there and relax the whole situation.

I did some searching and came up with these links that that explain this a little better as while as the reason that beta blockers don’t help!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinzmetal%27s_angina

http://cursoenarm.net/UPTODATE/contents ... e=see_link

http://www.bendomd.com/278-prinzmetal-a ... tment.html

Hope this helps in your understanding!
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