Protocol for reducing Lp(a)?

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Protocol for reducing Lp(a)?

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:14 am

I have high Lp(a) and venous insufficiency. I don’t think the vein issue will resolve as the veins are damaged and probably will not heal. However, I have used the combination of C, L-Lysine and L-Proline in the past to bring down my Lp(a) from the mid-70s to the 30s. I recently re-tested as I knew I needed to get back on the combination and my level is now 97. All other lipids are in a good range. My question is, do you have information on dosing of this product for high Lp(a)?

Any suggestion would be appreciated. Generally, I have kept both Lysine and Proline at about 3-4 grams daily and C at about 12 grams daily but realize that higher doses might be needed and wanted to see what information your group has on the topic.

Thanks and best regards,


My knowledge is that both vitamin C and vitamin B3 (niacin) can lower Lp(a) by 30%, and recently a forum member pointed to Life Extension advice from a recent study that carnitine can lower Lp(a). But do you really want to?

I'm not sure what you mean by "venous insufficiency" but in theory, Lp(a) is acting as a surrogate for low vitamin C intake, shoring up weak blood vessels by helping to create the "plaster casts" of atherosclerosis. So your elevated Lp(a) may be nature's way of trying to deal with your veins.

I think your proline is high, from our experience 1-2 grams (proline is not essential), however, proline is the factor that seems to have the most impact lowering Lp(a). If you do lower it you need to make sure you are getting enough vitamin C! "Enough" can be a very large amount.

Optimal vitamin C would be indicated no matter what. There are at least three methods or measures of the amount of vitamin C a person requires, knowing that many people cannot accept the optimum amount by mouth - they simply cannot absorb what they need.

Total Cholesterol: Optimal 180 mg/dl. The higher your total cholesterol is above 180 mg/dl, the more vitamin C you should be taking. (The GInter references are in Paulings HTLLAVB book).

Bowel Tolerance: See: TITRATING TO BOWEL TOLERANCE https://vitamincfoundation.org/www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm

Russell Jafee Ascorbate Cleanse/Calibration See: http://www.perque.com/lifestyle/self-tests/ascorbate-cleanse/ In a nutshell, you determine the largest one-time dose of vitamin C you can take by mouth without GI issues. Take this amount every 15 minutes until the watery discharge (about 2 hours). 75% of the amount taken is your "calibrated" daily requirement of vitamin C.

In many people, the GI issues are too much, so their only viable option is the liposomal delivery system. Vitamin C is encapsulated in nanometer lipid "capsules" called liposomes, and this promotes absorption during digestion. (Jury is out regarding this delivery mechanism and the Lp(a) Binding Inhibitor effect of the powdered vitamin C and lysine.)
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Protocol for reduing Lp(a)?

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:03 am

Addressing the original problem of venous insufficiency.
Usually the first line approach to this problem is, “Compression Stockings.”
Here’s a link that explains this.

http://venacure-evlt.com/endovenous-las ... -stocking/

So maybe a talk with your Doc about this may help some.

I agree with Owen as far as keeping your levels of V-C and Lysine up.

Lysine is the number one target is what Pauling called it, “A Binding Inhibitor!” LP(a) attracts to dead and distressed tissue and as the need arises it’s levels go up. Lysine looks like dead tissue to the body and the LP(a) attaches to it and is carried out. It will not lower the levels in your blood but will neutralizes what’s floating around. Till the problem is resolved and/or healed. This is were V-C comes into play in rebuilding/fixing what the problem is. However Niacin can slow the production of LP(a) in the liver and will lower your serum levels it does not cure the problem.
With all this in mind stay on your Pauling therapy and don’t miss a single day without it! Then get your legs back in shape!
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research!

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Re: Protocol for reduing Lp(a)?

Post Number:#3  Post by Frodo » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:20 pm

ofonorow wrote:
I have high Lp(a) and venous insufficiency. I don’t think the vein issue will resolve as the veins are damaged and probably will not heal. However, I have used the combination of C, L-Lysine and L-Proline in the past to bring down my Lp(a) from the mid-70s to the 30s. I recently re-tested as I knew I needed to get back on the combination and my level is now 97. All other lipids are in a good range. My question is, do you have information on dosing of this product for high Lp(a)?

Any suggestion would be appreciated. Generally, I have kept both Lysine and Proline at about 3-4 grams daily and C at about 12 grams daily but realize that higher doses might be needed and wanted to see what information your group has on the topic.

Thanks and best regards,


My knowledge is that both vitamin C and vitamin B3 (niacin) can lower Lp(a) by 30%, and recently a forum member pointed to Life Extension advice from a recent study that carnitine can lower Lp(a). But do you really want to?

I'm not sure what you mean by "venous insufficiency" but in theory, Lp(a) is acting as a surrogate for low vitamin C intake, shoring up weak blood vessels by helping to create the "plaster casts" of atherosclerosis. So your elevated Lp(a) may be nature's way of trying to deal with your veins.

I think your proline is high, from our experience 1-2 grams (proline is not essential), however, proline is the factor that seems to have the most impact lowering Lp(a). If you do lower it you need to make sure you are getting enough vitamin C! "Enough" can be a very large amount.

Optimal vitamin C would be indicated no matter what. There are at least three methods or measures of the amount of vitamin C a person requires, knowing that many people cannot accept the optimum amount by mouth - they simply cannot absorb what they need.

Total Cholesterol: Optimal 180 mg/dl. The higher your total cholesterol is above 180 mg/dl, the more vitamin C you should be taking. (The GInter references are in Paulings HTLLAVB book).

Bowel Tolerance: See: TITRATING TO BOWEL TOLERANCE https://vitamincfoundation.org/www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm

Russell Jafee Ascorbate Cleanse/Calibration See: http://www.perque.com/lifestyle/self-tests/ascorbate-cleanse/ In a nutshell, you determine the largest one-time dose of vitamin C you can take by mouth without GI issues. Take this amount every 15 minutes until the watery discharge (about 2 hours). 75% of the amount taken is your "calibrated" daily requirement of vitamin C.

In many people, the GI issues are too much, so their only viable option is the liposomal delivery system. Vitamin C is encapsulated in nanometer lipid "capsules" called liposomes, and this promotes absorption during digestion. (Jury is out regarding this delivery mechanism and the Lp(a) Binding Inhibitor effect of the powdered vitamin C and lysine.)


Wow, I'm a little confused, Owen. Can it really cause a problem lowering lp(a)? My lp(a) is high. And I know it since about 6 years (first blood test). All I've tried to lower it didn't work. Since January 2017 I'm on PT, and my lp(a) is going down, you know (next blood test tomorrow). Isn't it yet good to lower it, because it's a naturally reaction of the body? Does it mean, lp(a) and PT should work together?

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Re: Protocol for reduing Lp(a)?

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:37 am

It would help if you could edit my quote in your post to the parts you don't understand.

In theory, , so long as your vitamin C intake is optimal, and you are able to produce enough collagen to keep your veins and arteries strong, there is no reason to worry about lowering Lp(a) and losing its "surrogate" function. (Nobody really knows because no one is studying this as far as I know)

There are a couple of other secondary deficiencies that could lead to atherosclerosis (e.g. vitamin B6 and a copper deficiency) because these deficiencies impair the production of collagen. Usually the lack of vitamin C is the primary factor. (This is another good reason to cover all nutritional bases by following Linus Pauling's basic nutritional regimen in his 1986 book HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER.)

Lets say a person is not getting optimal vitamin C (i.e. most people) then the argument is that their arteries are being held together by the Lp(a) induced glue we call atherosclerosis.

I provided 3 methods for gauging whether vitamin C intake is optimal - because many people have such low bowel tolerances (we did not evolve to eat our vitamin C, at least until very recently). In your case, if total cholesterol is close to 180 mg/dl - that indicates that the fire has been extinguished, but if it is high, say over 240 mg/dl - that you are not taking enough vitamin C. The key is C.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Protocol for reducing Lp(a)?

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:18 am

More from original correspondent.

Thank you for your thorough response. I am familiar titrating C to bowel tolerance and Jaffe’s calibration method. I’ve used both at times in the past. I’ll also keep an eye on the forum for any additional comments.

FYI: Venous insufficiency occurs mostly in the leg veins. That valves they contain become damaged, possibly from toxins and/or too little C, and the blood pools in the ankles and feet. This occurred to me about 13 years ago when I knew I had mercury toxicity but didn’t know I had Lyme at that time. Because of the neurological symptoms a neurologist thought I had ms after a spinal MRI. MS is, at best, a superficial diagnosis. At any rate, I recovered once I found I actually had Lyme and treated it effectively (mostly herbal approach as antibiotics were only minimally effective). I had already greatly reduced the heavy metal load. At any rate, I used Jaffe’s calibration method during that time as well which I think contributed to the benefit I received. I don’t know of anything that can cause damaged valves in the leg veins to restore functioning.

I’ll also consider Daniel Cobb’s suggestions from his Townsend Letter article.

Thanks again for your response,

Best Regards,
J.


Coincidentally, yesterday a dentist with Lyme came to our store. He has found the books by Sherry Rogers helpful in overcoming his Lyme and other issues, and has even had consultations with her. He mentioned that when he had active Lyme, he used the Jaffee Cleanse but never reached the watery discharge/tolerance amount! I will check how long his "cleanse" lasted, but I believe he said "all day."
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Protocol for reducing Lp(a)?

Post Number:#6  Post by Johnwen » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:10 pm

Hay Owen;
There is a lot of info on LP(a) buried out there.
Here’s one that relates to this topic but get ready to find out things like, “Factor V Leiden,” to get a clear picture of what their trying to say.


This is a PDF File;

http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/blo ... ecked=true
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Protocol for reducing Lp(a)?

Post Number:#7  Post by guitarplayer007 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:37 am

Dr. Rath in his video states Lpa is now considered the leading risk factor for CVD

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Re: Protocol for reducing Lp(a)?

Post Number:#8  Post by zarfas » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:47 am

guitarplayer007 wrote:Dr. Rath in his video states Lpa is now considered the leading risk factor for CVD

while i understand Pauling theory, i have friends who do not and ask for science papers from people other than the main people who invented PH to support it's claims..
Yes, these are the same people who think "fasting is bad", fat is the cause of cad,. and 6 meals are gonna increase your metabolism over 3 meals.."

so you have a link to a paper that supports Rath's Conclusions?
thanks

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Re: Protocol for reducing Lp(a)?

Post Number:#9  Post by guitarplayer007 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:57 am

Like who

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Re: Protocol for reducing Lp(a)?

Post Number:#10  Post by zarfas » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:09 am

guitarplayer007 wrote:Like who

steve

you know him?>
and patrick

I dont see why you want to know "who"??


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