Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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skwoodwiva
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Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#1  Post by skwoodwiva » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:45 pm

There is a lot of lysine and proline in many vegetable and animal proteins. If I am sure to get say 10 g of L and say 5 g of P from daily meals might I be able to drop them as supplements?

http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000 ... 000-w.html

BTW,
I take 2.3g of VC 9 times a day now.

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#2  Post by zarfas » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:10 pm

skwoodwiva wrote:There is a lot of lysine and proline in many vegetable and animal proteins. If I am sure to get say 10 g of L and say 5 g of P from daily meals might I be able to drop them as supplements?

BTW,
I take 2.3g of VC 9 times a day now.

I doubt you'd have any issues, seems like enough,if the LP says get 4-6grams of both lysine and proline, so 12grams
from here
https://nutritionreview.org/2013/04/col ... onnection/


remember
Vitamin C – along with the amino acids proline and lysine – is essential for the formation of healthy collagen. Many vitamins and minerals act as catalysts to support the manufacture of proteins. In the case of collagen, however, vitamin C is actually used up as it combines with two amino acids – lysine and proline – to form procollagen. Procollagen is then used to manufacture one of several types of collagen found in different tissues throughout the body

so proline/lysine are being used to both bing to LP(a) and make collagen
so if you have a lots of lp(a) you need a lot
if you dont need so much, then no harm, you are eating fat free protein

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#3  Post by pamojja » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:43 am

skwoodwiva wrote:There is a lot of lysine and proline in many vegetable and animal proteins. If I am sure to get say 10 g of L and say 5 g of P from daily meals might I be able to drop them as supplements?


I actually measured each bite I ate and calculated it's micro-nutrient content in 2011. Daily lysine summed up to 3.3 g, and proline 3.2 g on a 2200 calorie diet. I wouldn't assume anything from nutrition-data alone, but only once you actually measured and calculated your own dietary intake for at least a month. Which always gives unexpected surprises.

Linus Pauling came to the 6 g recommendation through clinical experimentation with failing patients, which too had their share of lysine from diet, and only found it at that additional intake level effective at all.

On the other hand, had a significant PAD remission almost 3 years ago. And in retrospect calculated the deviation of all supplements taken the proceeding year compared relative to my intake for the whole 9 year I'm on Pauling's therapy. Interestingly, in that preceding year my lysine and proline intake had declined by about 20% (from 6 lysine and 2 g proline in average).

Personally wouldn't drop them completely, and at least continue with the 'prevention' dose of 3 g per day lysine.

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#4  Post by zarfas » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:54 pm

pamojja wrote:I actually measured each bite I ate and calculated it's micro-nutrient content in 2011. Daily lysine summed up to 3.3 g, and proline 3.2 g on a 2200 calorie diet. I wouldn't assume anything from nutrition-data alone, but only once you actually measured and calculated your own dietary intake for at least a month. Which always gives unexpected surprises.

smart move, adding up each bite
Friend of mine SWORE she was only eating X calories and couldnt lose weight
when she joined a program that made her log EVERYTHING, she lost weight... because she would only eat stuff where she had a number to write down(the calories are just estimates)
so smart plan you had had



pamojja wrote:Linus Pauling came to the 6 g recommendation through clinical experimentation with failing patients, which too had their share of lysine from diet, and only found it at that additional intake level effective at all.


I'm not understanding this? so when a Patient had 6grams lysine via diet, it wasnt enough?

pamojja wrote:On the other hand, had a significant PAD remission almost 3 years ago. And in retrospect calculated the deviation of all supplements taken the proceeding year compared relative to my intake for the whole 9 year I'm on Pauling's therapy. Interestingly, in that preceding year my lysine and proline intake had declined by about 20% (from 6 lysine and 2 g proline in average).

?PAD=Peripheral artery disease (PAD) is a narrowing of the peripheral arteries to the legs, stomach, arms, and head ?

so how did you have the measured?
sounds great and how did you get that to go into remission?
you were on Pauling therapy for 8years and on year 9, you changed something? I am not understanding what you wrote, can you help me out with some clarification about what you did to get remission?

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#5  Post by pamojja » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:42 am

zarfas wrote:
pamojja wrote:Linus Pauling came to the 6 g recommendation through clinical experimentation with failing patients, which too had their share of lysine from diet, and only found it at that additional intake level effective at all.


I'm not understanding this? so when a Patient had 6grams lysine via diet, it wasnt enough?


Neither Linus Pauling, nor I in my post indicated he got already 6 g lysine from diet. How could we know? He upped his supplemental dose to 6 g and it helped. We can, however assume that this patient did get some grams of lysine from food too, like everyone of us .

zarfas wrote:
pamojja wrote:On the other hand, had a significant PAD remission almost 3 years ago. And in retrospect calculated the deviation of all supplements taken the proceeding year compared relative to my intake for the whole 9 year I'm on Pauling's therapy. Interestingly, in that preceding year my lysine and proline intake had declined by about 20% (from 6 lysine and 2 g proline in average).

PAD=Peripheral artery disease (PAD) is a narrowing of the peripheral arteries to the legs, stomach, arms, and head ?

so how did you have the measured?


Main symptoms is that much pain in legs while walking, that one has to stop. In my case already after 3-400 meter. Diagnostically with MRI and ultra sound a 80% stenosis at the abdominal aorta bifurcation.

zarfas wrote:sounds great and how did you get that to go into remission?


Pauling's therapy, the recommendations of Dr. William Davis, a low carb, high fat diet, and patience.

zarfas wrote:you were on Pauling therapy for 8years and on year 9, you changed something? I am not understanding what you wrote, can you help me out with some clarification about what you did to get remission?


I was on Pauling therapy for 9 years. During all these years there were fluctuations - increases and decreases - of all nutrients, some introduced later (like Ayurvedic herbals), other discontinued (like pumpkin seed extract). The complete remission of the walking pain in my legs (called intermittent claudication) happened at the beginning of year 6 of all these 9 years. However, started already very gradually with the 1st year by increasing pain-free walking distance up to 1 hour.

What I did to get remission? All of the above for 9 years now.

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#6  Post by pamojja » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:40 pm

skwoodwiva wrote:There is a lot of lysine and proline in many vegetable and animal proteins. If I am sure to get say 10 g of L and say 5 g of P from daily meals might I be able to drop them as supplements?


Also not to forget that most lysine powders sold in most cases is actually lysine-hcl. The hydrocloride making up 21.2% of its weight, and if one subtracts that from 6 g of powder, one actually got 4,728 g of lysine only.

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#7  Post by francisunderwood » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:23 pm

pamojja wrote:
skwoodwiva wrote:There is a lot of lysine and proline in many vegetable and animal proteins. If I am sure to get say 10 g of L and say 5 g of P from daily meals might I be able to drop them as supplements?


Also not to forget that most lysine powders sold in most cases is actually lysine-hcl. The hydrocloride making up 21.2% of its weight, and if one subtracts that from 6 g of powder, one actually got 4,728 g of lysine only.


Do you know of any powders or pills that this is not the case?

Another thought is if farming practices are on a mass scale would lysine not be lower than if someone grew their on food with traditional methods?

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#8  Post by zarfas » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:44 pm

francisunderwood wrote:
Do you know of any powders or pills that this is not the case?

Another thought is if farming practices are on a mass scale would lysine not be lower than if someone grew their on food with traditional methods?

sprnig vcally lysine

https://www.amazon.com/Spring-Valley-L- ... B004VGT4TC

they are recommended by consumerlabs
https://www.consumerlab.com/reviews/Lys ... ns/Lysine/


or just take eggwhites
or both

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#9  Post by francisunderwood » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:05 pm

zarfas wrote:
francisunderwood wrote:
Do you know of any powders or pills that this is not the case?

Another thought is if farming practices are on a mass scale would lysine not be lower than if someone grew their on food with traditional methods?

sprnig vcally lysine

https://www.amazon.com/Spring-Valley-L- ... B004VGT4TC

they are recommended by consumerlabs
https://www.consumerlab.com/reviews/Lys ... ns/Lysine/


or just take eggwhites
or both


The Spring Valley one is the hydrocloride version according to the label. The reviews are really good and the test which I don't have access to is supposed to be good from what I read in a review. At Wal-Mart they are only around 4 dollars.

Egg whites is a no go for me. Just can't stand them for some reason.

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#10  Post by skwoodwiva » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:05 pm

pamojja wrote:
skwoodwiva wrote:There is a lot of lysine and proline in many vegetable and animal proteins. If I am sure to get say 10 g of L and say 5 g of P from daily meals might I be able to drop them as supplements?


Also not to forget that most lysine powders sold in most cases is actually lysine-hcl. The hydrocloride making up 21.2% of its weight, and if one subtracts that from 6 g of powder, one actually got 4,728 g of lysine only.

What about your favorite pure bulk? I ordered a KG.

Good that my link does not work, it seems inaccurate. It works only from Google.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000 ... 00000.html

Here http://www.sandiegohomeopathy.com/downl ... _Foods.pdf
Ignore the arginine.

Looking at this list, it seems I get plenty if I always eat a certain way.
Yet if I cannot eat plenty of my faves, then I will supplement.
Hmmm, I May resort to a baseline of some every day

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#11  Post by skwoodwiva » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:38 pm

pamojja wrote: Pauling's therapy, the recommendations of Dr. William Davis, a low carb, high fat diet, and patience.


How high is your fat diet?

Mine is 25 to 35 % (Not sure actually) from saturated and evoo.

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#12  Post by pamojja » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:05 am

skwoodwiva wrote:
pamojja wrote: Pauling's therapy, the recommendations of Dr. William Davis, a low carb, high fat diet, and patience.


How high is your fat diet?


I measured my dietary nutrients only from 2009 to 2012. So now I actually don't know where I'm at, just followed Dr. Davis advises:

TrackYourPlaque

  • Identifying of all causes, adaptation of strategies, and continuous evaluation through extensive laboratory and coronary calcium score testing
  • Individual reduction of carbohydrates by singling out most offending by testing postprandial blood-glucose responses
  • Basically optimizing serum 25(OH)D (60-80 ng/dl), thyroid and other hormones, Mg, Fish-oil, K2, Iodine, etc
.

dietary wise:

  • Correct metabolic responses with elimination of wheat, cornstarch, and sugars; limited dairy
  • Don’t limit fats, but choose the right fats
  • Unlimited vegetables, some fruits
  • Unlimited raw nuts and seeds
  • Unlimited healthy oils
  • Foods Should Be Unprocessed


And armored with a blood glucose-meter, changed from a life-long low fat vegan to in average 68% of fat-intake by calories in the 3 years I measured.

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#13  Post by zarfas » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:53 am

pamojja wrote:
skwoodwiva wrote:
pamojja wrote: Pauling's therapy, the recommendations of Dr. William Davis, a low carb, high fat diet, and patience.


How high is your fat diet?


I measured my dietary nutrients only from 2009 to 2012. So now I actually don't know where I'm at, just followed Dr. Davis ADVICE:

TrackYourPlaque

  • Identifying of all causes, adaptation of strategies, and continuous evaluation through extensive laboratory and coronary calcium score testing
  • Individual reduction of carbohydrates by singling out most offending by testing postprandial blood-glucose responses
  • Basically optimizing serum 25(OH)D (60-80 ng/dl), thyroid and other hormones, Mg, Fish-oil, K2, Iodine, etc
.

dietary wise:

  • Correct metabolic responses with elimination of wheat, cornstarch, and sugars; limited dairy
  • Don’t limit fats, but choose the right fats
  • Unlimited vegetables, some fruits
  • Unlimited raw nuts and seeds
  • Unlimited healthy oils
  • Foods Should Be Unprocessed


And armored with a blood glucose-meter, changed from a life-long low fat vegan to in average 68% of fat-intake by calories in the 3 years I measured.


sounds, interesting
what is your A1c? or have you ever been diabetic?
how did your Lp(a) change? or did it?

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#14  Post by skwoodwiva » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:49 am

pamojja wrote:
skwoodwiva wrote:
pamojja wrote: Pauling's therapy, the recommendations of Dr. William Davis, a low carb, high fat diet, and patience.


How high is your fat diet?


I measured my dietary nutrients only from 2009 to 2012. So now I actually don't know where I'm at, just followed Dr. Davis advises:

TrackYourPlaque

  • Identifying of all causes, adaptation of strategies, and continuous evaluation through extensive laboratory and coronary calcium score testing
  • Individual reduction of carbohydrates by singling out most offending by testing postprandial blood-glucose responses
  • Basically optimizing serum 25(OH)D (60-80 ng/dl), thyroid and other hormones, Mg, Fish-oil, K2, Iodine, etc
.

dietary wise:

  • Correct metabolic responses with elimination of wheat, cornstarch, and sugars; limited dairy
  • Don’t limit fats, but choose the right fats
  • Unlimited vegetables, some fruits
  • Unlimited raw nuts and seeds
  • Unlimited healthy oils
  • Foods Should Be Unprocessed


And armored with a blood glucose-meter, changed from a life-long low fat vegan to in average 68% of fat-intake by calories in the 3 years I measured.

Wow, I am intrigued!
You must be an O or a B.
I can only eat rice as a limited carb. No dairy at all.

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Re: Lysine & Proline in food, it seems like a lot. Is it enough?

Post Number:#15  Post by pamojja » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:43 am

What is an O or a B?

Can't even eat rice.

what is your A1c? or have you ever been diabetic?


Prediabetic with a average fasting BG of 101 for the last 9 years. Average HbA1c has been 5.1% (with one outlier at 6.2%). However, HbA1c can be seriously misleading for a number of reasons (anemia, shorter RBC-life, high dose vitamin C, etc). For example, if I take my mean BG of 117 mg/dl I get a calculated HbA1c of 5.7%. If I take the 5.1% I get a calculated mean BG of 98 mg/dl only. Therefore don't trust my measured HbA1c at all.

how did your Lp(a) change? or did it?


Lowest at 34 mg/dl, highest at 66 (<30 range). All the time fluctuating. Lowest when my testosterone (free+total) and DHEA for the first time normalized.


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