Sugar yes it is bad. Does that mean figs, dates, agave & the like are to be avoided too?

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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skwoodwiva
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Sugar yes it is bad. Does that mean figs, dates, agave & the like are to be avoided too?

Post Number:#1  Post by skwoodwiva » Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:00 pm

That is away from VC dosing.
I have wondered if honey and other natural sweets are bad. I have kept away from them.
All thoughts will be appreciated.

confused1
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Re: Sugar yes it is bad. Does that mean figs, dates, agave & the like are to be avoided too?

Post Number:#2  Post by confused1 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:55 am

Pauling rule #7 says you should eat some fruit. I can't give you a citation but I've read that non-fruit consumers have higher rates of stomach and colon cancer. Pauling also says in rule #6 to keep your sugar intake, including honey, to 50 lbs. per year. Doing the math, this comes to a little over 2 ounces a day. All things in moderation sounds good to me.

zarfas
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Re: Sugar yes it is bad. Does that mean figs, dates, agave & the like are to be avoided too?

Post Number:#3  Post by zarfas » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:11 pm

confused1 wrote:. Doing the math, this comes to a little over 2 ounces a day. All things in moderation sounds good to me.

maybe

but your body compostiion means A LOT here

a guy at 200lbs, 10% body fat and a guy at 200lbs 40% bodyfat, do not have the same effects from sugar.
10% can eat more

what matters is weight/body comp

exitium
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Re: Sugar yes it is bad. Does that mean figs, dates, agave & the like are to be avoided too?

Post Number:#4  Post by exitium » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:19 am

zarfas wrote:a guy at 200lbs, 10% body fat and a guy at 200lbs 40% bodyfat, do not have the same effects from sugar.
10% can eat more

what matters is weight/body comp


Id love to hear the logic behind that statement.

zarfas
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Re: Sugar yes it is bad. Does that mean figs, dates, agave & the like are to be avoided too?

Post Number:#5  Post by zarfas » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:12 am

exitium wrote:
zarfas wrote:a guy at 200lbs, 10% body fat and a guy at 200lbs 40% bodyfat, do not have the same effects from sugar.
10% can eat more

what matters is weight/body comp


Id love to hear the logic behind that statement.

leptin kinetics

https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-l ... art-1.html

its why a guy who is lean(10% bodyfat or lower) can overeat 1-2x a week and not get fat while a fat guy(bodyfat 20%+
will just get fat

exitium
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Re: Sugar yes it is bad. Does that mean figs, dates, agave & the like are to be avoided too?

Post Number:#6  Post by exitium » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:08 pm

zarfas wrote:
exitium wrote:
zarfas wrote:a guy at 200lbs, 10% body fat and a guy at 200lbs 40% bodyfat, do not have the same effects from sugar.
10% can eat more

what matters is weight/body comp


Id love to hear the logic behind that statement.

leptin kinetics

https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-l ... art-1.html

its why a guy who is lean(10% bodyfat or lower) can overeat 1-2x a week and not get fat while a fat guy(bodyfat 20%+
will just get fat


So now your saying that hormones affect your bodyfat levels? Last week werent you telling me that was irrelevant and it was nothing more than cutting cals that mattered?

zarfas
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Re: Sugar yes it is bad. Does that mean figs, dates, agave & the like are to be avoided too?

Post Number:#7  Post by zarfas » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:38 am

exitium wrote:
zarfas wrote:
exitium wrote:
Id love to hear the logic behind that statement.

leptin kinetics

https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-l ... art-1.html

its why a guy who is lean(10% bodyfat or lower) can overeat 1-2x a week and not get fat while a fat guy(bodyfat 20%+
will just get fat


So now your saying that hormones affect your bodyfat levels? Last week werent you telling me that was irrelevant and it was nothing more than cutting cals that mattered?

I cant comment on an abstract thoughts, you need to paste what was said, it seems it is out of context, without context it seems you are not understanding what was written, if anything was actually written. :D
does a guy with low T burn fewer calories than a guy with high T? sure
does someone who is leptin sensitive burn more calories than someone who is leptin insensitive, yes,

as for a guy who is at 10% bodyfat and a guy at 20% bodyfat,

The leaner guy will have better carbohydrate tolerance and insulin sensitivity. And if he's routinely dieting and exercising to get to that 10% bodyfat level he's also likely to have depleted glycogen stores and his muscles can hold more glycogen. So when he overeats his muscles just fill up with glycogen without much spill over.
'--basic dieting 101, nothing to do with hormones
the leaner you are the more drastically leptin goes down, so overeating/refeeds can be beneficial to keep it elevated more often. Really the leaner you get the more you need refeeds to keep the metabolism somewhat normal.

Boosting Leptin just boosts the metabolism (if leptin is low). If you're dieting and getting lean leptin will be lower than normal. so you do a refeed or have a cheat day and leptin temporarily goes up for a few days, which temporarily boosts metabolism. Also since you're dieting and training your glycogen stores are probably depleted so a lot of that food you eat during the cheat just goes to refill muscle glycogen stores. And you get a metabolism boosts that lasts for a few days.


Compare that to when you're at 20% body-fat and eating normal everyday and not doing much training. Leptin is already normal so you're not gonna boost it with a cheat day. You're not dieting, not doing much training, so your muscle glycogen stores are already full. So you do a cheat day what are the benefits? You're not gonna get a metabolism boost because metabolism is already normal. Your muscle glycogen stores are already full so there's no place to store all those excess calories except in fat
which, again, goes back to how you get fat
1 by eating fat(fat gets stored as fat)
2 by overeating sugar when you have been overeating for a while(thus have filled glycogen stores) thus sugar, cannot be stored, and made into fat.


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