any clear evidence?

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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zarfas
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any clear evidence?

Post Number:#1  Post by zarfas » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:36 pm

is there any clear evidnce that vit C/lysine lowers Lp(a)?

I understand the theory:
Arteries get worn due to fluxating BP, flow of blood.wear/tear
they need collagen to be fixed
collagen formation needs vit C
vit C is not stored in the body, as it is water soluable, so either you had some within a few hours to be used
OR
the body uses LDL-cholestrol with Apo-protien to fix arteries-=Lp(a)
OR
Lp(a) binds to strands of lysine from damaged ateries
when Lp(a) is used to repair arteries, the "lysine binding site" will help a plaque grow

only by taking 5-10grams of lysine and 5-10grams of vit C over a course of a day, which is to allow your body to always have access to vitC and fill any lysine binding sites, can heart disease be reversed

but is there any science that shows lots of Lysine./vit C lowers LpA in the body?

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Re: any clear evidence?

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:28 am

No one says vitamin C and lysine lowers Lp(a)? Where did you get that from ? (other than the known effect of about 30% attributed to vitamin C and/or Niacin).
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

zarfas
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Re: any clear evidence?

Post Number:#3  Post by zarfas » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:31 am

ofonorow wrote:No one says vitamin C and lysine lowers Lp(a)? Where did you get that from ? (other than the known effect of about 30% attributed to vitamin C and/or Niacin).

[color=#BF00BF]"known effect"\--where is it "known"?

so you are saying if I have high lp(a), I'm gonna have a heart disease?
[/color]

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Re: any clear evidence?

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:50 am

According to the Pauling/Rath unified theory, Lp(a) is acting as a surrogate for low vitamin C to strengthen your otherwise weak blood vessels. Since this (Lp(a) production) is a relatively new evolutionary adaption (to our ancestors having lost their ability to make their own vitamin C in the way the other animals do, e.g. because of our GULO defect) the production of Lp(a) can vary 1000 fold - according to the first Pauling/Rath patent.

Now your question was whether vitamin C and lysine are known to reduce Lp(a). They are not (more than 30%). In the guinea pig experiments, sufficient vitamin C kept Lp(a) from appearing in the blood, or becoming elevated, but there is no evidence that vitamin C and lysine alone will reduce Lp(a) that I know of.

So what do you do if your Lp(a) is elevated? First and foremost, you take Lp(a) binding inhibitors to inactivate the higher levels in the blood and render the Lp(a) "unsticky." The centerpiece is vitamin C, but it should also include niacin and lysine - and proline.

As I relate in my book... hint hint hint .. https://www.amazon.com/Practicing-Medicine-Without-License-Pauling-ebook/dp/B0731L3MF8/ref=sr_1_2_twi_kin_1?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1508503768&sr=8-2&keywords=fonorow+practicing+medicine a New York medical professor phoned me after his own elevated Lp(a) went to zero. This didn't happen on vitamin C and lysine, but only after he added proline - the only change that he made.

Should the Foundation ever get sufficient funding to form a laboratory, we will investigate whether proline will lower Lp(a) when added to vitamin C and lysine.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

zarfas
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Re: any clear evidence?

Post Number:#5  Post by zarfas » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:40 am

ofonorow wrote:According to the Pauling/Rath unified theory, Lp(a) is acting as a surrogate for low vitamin C to strengthen your otherwise weak blood vessels. Since this (Lp(a) production) is a relatively new evolutionary adaption (to our ancestors having lost their ability to make their own vitamin C in the way the other animals do, e.g. because of our GULO defect) the production of Lp(a) can vary 1000 fold - according to the first Pauling/Rath patent.

Now your question was whether vitamin C and lysine are known to reduce Lp(a). They are not (more than 30%). In the guinea pig experiments, sufficient vitamin C kept Lp(a) from appearing in the blood, or becoming elevated, but there is no evidence that vitamin C and lysine alone will reduce Lp(a) that I know of.

So what do you do if your Lp(a) is elevated? First and foremost, you take Lp(a) binding inhibitors to inactivate the higher levels in the blood and render the Lp(a) "unsticky." The centerpiece is vitamin C, but it should also include niacin and lysine - and proline.

As I relate in my book... hint hint hint .. https://www.amazon.com/Practicing-Medicine-Without-License-Pauling-ebook/dp/B0731L3MF8/ref=sr_1_2_twi_kin_1?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1508503768&sr=8-2&keywords=fonorow+practicing+medicine a New York medical professor phoned me after his own elevated Lp(a) went to zero. This didn't happen on vitamin C and lysine, but only after he added proline - the only change that he made.

Should the Foundation ever get sufficient funding to form a laboratory, we will investigate whether proline will lower Lp(a) when added to vitamin C and lysine.



so proline lowers lp(a)?
and taking nicain and vit C/lysine....

I get what Pauling therapy is, I understand the hypothesis, that you need vit C to make collagen to repair arteries
no collagen,the body uses Lp(a)
Lp(a) has lysine binding sites and will form plaques with more Lp(a)(I think that's right)


you have high Lp(a)
high Lp(a) is establ:
take some vit C all day(lots of factors use up vit C, which is why you want to get to BT)
take grams of lysine/proline( I use eggwhites, 460grams of eggwhites-=Lysine/proline(20/12) I've eaten eggwhites for 17 yrs)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000 ... 000-w.html

lysine fills in lp(a) lysine receptors
Proline also fills in lysine recptors?
so lysine/proline make lp(a) unsticky?
ofertime, any plaques will be degraded(I'm not sure how) using lysine/proline
taking vit C prevents the body from needing to use Lp(a)
niacin prevents the liver from mnaking Lp(a)

I think that's the basic theory
I'm just looking for some evidence to show other people.

btw, when the prof called you, how high was his Lp(a) before he added proline?

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Re: any clear evidence?

Post Number:#6  Post by zarfas » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:55 am

ofonorow wrote:[
Should the Foundation ever get sufficient funding to form a laboratory, we will investigate whether proline will lower Lp(a) when added to vitamin C and lysine. [/color][/b]


hopefully that's when Edoc will get his DMSO book published

Lysine has a strong affinity for Lp(a). As such, if we were to flood our bodies with lysine, our bodies will be cleared of this sticky substance and reduce our chances of having heart diseases.

The third non-essential amino acid is proline. It is also a main component of collagen. When our bodies lack Vitamin C, it causes proline to be lost in the urine as there is a net loss of collagen building in the body. Like lysine, proline has a high affinity for Lp(a) and therefore able to dissolve plaque. It is said to be even stronger than lysine in this action. It not only prevents further build-up of artherosclerotic deposits, it also helps to release already deposited fat globules from the blood vessel walls into the blood stream.
-Michael Lam, MD, MPH

https://www.drlam.com/blog/megadose-vitamin-c/803/


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