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Father of the excess Iron theory of heart disease dies

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:20 am
by ofonorow
Just reading this obituary about Jerome. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-05-06/news/os-obit-jerome-sullivan-20130506_1_heart-disease-heart-attacks-iron Ever since I read his 1981 Lancet article, I have believed in his theory about excess iron and still do, but not for the heart. I never heard him say nor have I read in his papers mention of Vitamin C (or lysine or proline). As far as I know, there was never to my knowledge any mention of the additional mechanism of chronic mechanical stress creating cracks in the endothelium of coronary arteries at bifurcations that precipitates the Lp (a), apo (a) repair cascade.

It was not until I got a stent in 2015 for what would have otherwise been a widow-maker lesion in my proximal LAD that I realized the value of Pauling therapy and the failure of a nearly zero level of stored iron (that I maintained personally for 30 years) to stop atherosclerosis in the heart ONLY (my peripheral vessels are clear).

Forgetting for a moment the bowel tolerance limits of oral ascorbate, what is the minimal amount of oral intake of ascorbate that will produce optimal (but temporary) elevations of the blood levels? From what I have read, it should be more optimal to take 2 gm of ascorbate and the same amount of lysine every three hours or so, instead of a larger amount less frequently because of the rapid clearance from the blood stream.


Funny you should ask... The exciting new cancer research has redoubled our efforts to understand blood concentrations and oral vitamin C intake.

For the cancer-stem cell killing effects - looks like 1 gram every 2 hours (or 12 grams daily) - is the minimum dosage.

A 1 g oral dose of AA can raise plasma AA to 130 μmol/L within an hour and such doses at intervals of about two hours throughout the day can maintain ~230 μmol AA/L

Self-reported daily intake varied from 0 to 20 g/day. The plasma AA levels ranged from 11.4 to 517 μmol/L
and correlated well with the reported intake.


Cheryl A Krone, John A Ely, Journal of theNew Zealand Medical Association, 23-August-2002, Vol 115 No 1160,
Glycohaemoglobin and ascorbic acid)


This is the white paper about cancer patient dosing we are working on.

https://vitamincfoundation.org/pdfs/Can ... ePaper.pdf

For me personally, 9,000 mg every 12 hours worked, but the new knowledge, from Hickey/Roberts, that if we simulate animals and take smaller amounts throughout the day, has the same basic effect but less vitamin C is needed.

I didn't know of Jerome, but even though men don't menstruate, red blood corpuscles die after a limited time... What happens to these dead RBCs? The iron would have to be somehow recycled and stored after RBC death.

Re: Father of the excess Iron theory of heart disease dies

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:11 am
by ofonorow
Very timely...thanks!

What are the recommendations for ascorbate/lysine/proline supplementation for CVD? Has anything changed there? It's at least 6 grams/day in divided dosage and possibly 9, right? Lysine same amount as ascorbate and proline about half of that. Apparently Linus Pauling guessed about the amounts based on responses from friends and colleagues who were cardiac cripples with reversal of their condition.


According to Linus Pauling's daughter Linda, Pauling didn't "guess" and spent a great deal of time at his desk investigating and formulating the lysine dosage recommendations.

It is interesting that the CSC-lethal dosage of 12 grams should work quite nicely for heart patients too. And lies smack in the middle of Pauling's vitamin C recommendations of 6 g to 18 g daily from his book HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER.

We don't recommend more than 6 g of lysine. From memory, johnwen at the forum computed a Max Safe Dosage of Lysine around 14 grams.

Vitamin C varies per individual. I have issued a challenge to find anyone with CVD who consistently takes 10 grams of vitamin C (or more) daily.

Proline from 400-800 mg has worked well (1 to 2 jars Tower Heart Technology) since around 1996.

Re: Father of the excess Iron theory of heart disease dies

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:26 am
by Frodo
Owen
I consistently take 10 to 20 grams vitamin C since about 4 years. Additional 6 to 10 grams lysine and 1,5 to 2 grams proline (and other nutrients like vitamin E, Q10, omega-3, B-complex and so on).
Where can I find the "new knowledge" from Hickey/Roberts? I know their books "Vitamin Cure" and "Vitamin C - The Real Story".

Re: Father of the excess Iron theory of heart disease dies

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:25 am
by zarfas
ofonorow wrote:We don't recommend more than 6 g of lysine. From memory, johnwen at the forum computed a Max Safe Dosage of Lysine around 14 grams.6.[/color][/b]


I dont understand why 6+-14 grams of lysine is bad?
what makes it bad?

Re: Father of the excess Iron theory of heart disease dies

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:07 pm
by Frodo
I thougt the father of the iron/heart disease theory is E.D. Weinberg (Exposing the Hidden Dangers of Iron)???
I think the theory is like: "kidney stones are caused by vitamin C - or perhaps vitamin D or...".
But it's true, there is a connection: Without iron the heart gets no air. Though I'm trying to keep my ferritin level consistently over 120 (better 200). And I feel well.

Re: Father of the excess Iron theory of heart disease dies

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:35 am
by ofonorow
I hope johnwen's post on the maximum safe lysine dosage is in our archive.. Otherwise, johnwen? We do have anecdotal evidence that something like 4 or 5 jars of heart technology (12 to 15 grams of extra lysine) caused no harm in the brother of the former ceo of Tower labs.

Frodo wrote:Owen
I consistently take 10 to 20 grams vitamin C since about 4 years. Additional 6 to 10 grams lysine and 1,5 to 2 grams proline (and other nutrients like vitamin E, Q10, omega-3, B-complex and so on).
Where can I find the "new knowledge" from Hickey/Roberts? I know their books "Vitamin Cure" and "Vitamin C - The Real Story".


The Dynamic Floow theory was presented in their book ASCORBATE: THE SCIENCE OF VITAMIN C (which ideally would be read by every high school student in their science class, for it clear explanation and purpose of the scientific method.)

There is a little more in their RIDICULOUS DIETARY ALLOWANCE book.


Added. Here is a johnwen discussion in the context of lysine and kidney function (not the post I was thinking of)
http://www.vitaminc.foundation/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10914&p=33075&hilit=lysine+maximum#p33075