Interesting studies

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

Moderator: ofonorow

skwoodwiva
Vitamin C Master
Vitamin C Master
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:24 am
Contact:

Interesting studies

Post Number:#1  Post by skwoodwiva » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:06 pm

http://www.bmj.com/content/314/7081/634

Yet one conclusion
"Only 89 (5.5%) of our study subjects took supplements containing vitamin C. The exclusion of these men did not materially change the results. In fact, among the 1516 men who had not used vitamin C containing supplements during the previous week the relative risk for having a plasma ascorbate concentration <11.4 µmol/l was 3.7 (1.9 to 7.2, P = 0.0001) after adjustment for age, season, and year of examination. The use of vitamin C supplements had no significant association with the risk of myocardial infarction" seems to show that dosing was too low.
Last edited by skwoodwiva on Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

zarfas
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:17 am
Contact:

Re: Interesting study

Post Number:#2  Post by zarfas » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:03 pm

so no extra viT C is needed?
is that what the study is saying?

skwoodwiva
Vitamin C Master
Vitamin C Master
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:24 am
Contact:

Re: Interesting study

Post Number:#3  Post by skwoodwiva » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:59 pm

zarfas wrote:so no extra viT C is needed?
is that what the study is saying?

"
To our knowledge, our current results are the first empirical evidence in humans to show that vitamin C deficiency, as measured by low plasma ascorbate concentration, is a risk factor for coronary heart disease. In our cohort plasma vitamin C concentration above the limit of deficiency was not associated with the risk of acute myocardial infarction. Thus, high intakes of vitamin C or vitamin C supplements would >> probably << not reduce the risk of acute myocardial infarction. Our findings suggest, instead, that if a minimal necessary requirement of vitamin C is not met the risk of myocardial infarction is increased. "

>> probably << there were no high dosers in their data

zarfas
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:17 am
Contact:

Re: Interesting study

Post Number:#4  Post by zarfas » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:47 am

skwoodwiva wrote:Our findings suggest, instead, that if a minimal necessary requirement of vitamin C is not met the risk of myocardial infarction is increased. "

and isnt that the very issue that Pauling therapy addresses? to get the "minimum vit C?"

people have varying amounts of vit C required

Vitamin C is Intimately Connected to Collagen. If you want healthy collagen, the most important nutrients needed are vitamin C, the amino acid proline, and the amino acid lysine.

so you need collagen ,as collagen is ~30 %the whole-body protein content

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12879
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: Interesting study

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:40 am

Thanks for the link.

First, I am biased against Finish studies, maybe unfairly, because of the so-called "beta caratene" link to lung cancer, that Yale Researchers later debunked.. using the same data. There was really no such link between beta caratene and lung cancer, as a review of the entire set of data showed, but the damage had been done because the first finding made news, the correction didn't.

Back to this apparently favorable study. It claims to be based on blood plasma levels. This is good/terrific!

From the abstract, this study seems to be indicating that your risk of having a heart attack, is 2 to 3 times higher, if your blood plasma vitamin C is low.


Added, and this illustrates another "technique" used to damn nutrients... If this was a drug, instead of 2.5 times, we'd see a 250% higher risk!
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

skwoodwiva
Vitamin C Master
Vitamin C Master
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:24 am
Contact:

Re: Interesting studies

Post Number:#6  Post by skwoodwiva » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:43 am

ofonorow wrote:Thanks for the link.

First, I am biased against Finish studies, maybe unfairly, because of the so-called "beta caratene" link to lung cancer, that Yale Researchers later debunked.. using the same data. There was really no such link between beta caratene and lung cancer, as a review of the entire set of data showed, but the damage had been done because the first finding made news, the correction didn't.

Back to this apparently favorable study. It claims to be based on blood plasma levels. This is good/terrific!

From the abstract, this study seems to be indicating that your risk of having a heart attack, is 2 to 3 times higher, if your blood plasma vitamin C is low.


Added, and this illustrates another "technique" used to damn nutrients... If this was a drug, instead of 2.5 times, we'd see a 250% higher risk!

More
Just abstract, pay walls!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 9799000083

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 1.10719040

https://academic.oup.com/aje/article-ab ... 1269/59606



http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/60/1/100.short
"s. These findings suggest that high plasma concentrations of vitamin C may lower atherogenic risk."

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/1/64.short
"Results: Over 196 713 total person-years (average follow-up: 9.5 y), 448 incident strokes occurred. In a Cox proportional hazards model, persons in the top quartiles of baseline plasma vitamin C concentrations had a 42% lower risk (relative risk: 0.58; 95% CI: 0.43, 0.78) than did those in the bottom quartile, independently of age, sex, smoking, body mass index, systolic blood pressure, cholesterol, physical activity, prevalent diabetes and myocardial infarction, social class, alcohol consumption, and any supplement use. Similar results were obtained after exclusion of persons with illnesses ,
>>> users of ascorbic acid–containing supplements <<<
, and persons with a history of early strokes during the initial 2 y of follow-up."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447163/
What a low plasma level!
" After adjustment for intake of vitamin C from food, plasma AA among those who took vitamin C supplements was further elevated by 3.5±20, 14.8±16, 10.2±16, and 19.7±15 μmol/L across quartiles of vitamin C intake from vitamin C supplements (P-trend<0.001)."

https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/144/5/501/66603

". In conclusion, the results indicate that high intakes and plasma levels of vitamin C and frequent consumption of vegetables may be protective against early mortality and mortality from heart disease. Am J Epidemiol 1996; 144: 501-11."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 5095056599
"Supplementation of otherwise healthy smokers for 4 weeks with 1000 mg ascorbate per day resulted in increased plasma ascorbate and reduced LDL oxidative susceptibility."

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 55?LI=true
Paywall
But positive, vitamin E too.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 55?LI=true
"We had hoped that it would be possible to perform a meta-
analysis of high-quality trials with vitamin C as a single
substance based on the criteria suggested in Table 3, but
have found that at this point this is not possible because
such trials have not been performed.
"

skwoodwiva
Vitamin C Master
Vitamin C Master
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:24 am
Contact:

Re: Interesting studies

Post Number:#7  Post by skwoodwiva » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:17 pm

EDTA & VC infusion

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4066975/

"The active, 10-component, chelation solution was selected to most closely match the standard solution used by chelation practitioners16, and consisted of up to 3 grams disodium EDTA, adjusted downward based on estimated glomerular filtration rate, 7 grams of ascorbic acid, 2 grams of magnesium chloride, 100 mg of procaine HCl, 2500 U of unfractionated heparin, 2 mEq potassium chloride, 840 mg sodium bicarbonate, 250 mg pantothenic acid, 100 mg thiamine, 100 mg pyridoxine, and sterile water to make up 500 mL of solution. The identical-appearing placebo solution consisted of 500 mL of normal saline and 1.2% dextrose (2.5 grams total). The chelation or placebo infusions were administered through a peripheral intravenous line – weekly for the first 30 infusions, followed by an additional 10 infusions 2 to 8 weeks apart. Infusions were administered over at least 3 hours unless the serum calcium corrected for albumin concentration was between 8.0 and 8.5 mg/dL, or the patient was unable to tolerate the 3-hour infusion due to heart failure. In those cases the infusions were administered more "

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12879
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: Interesting studies

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:07 am

I know a lot of people have felt better from IV/EDTA chelation therapy, but we learned early, heart patients only if their doctors included vitamin C( and magnesium). So while chelation has a detox effect, it is not going to cure CVD like you can with the proper high dosage every day orally.
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter


Return to “Linus Pauling's Vitamin C/Lysine Therapy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests