LPa Treatment Question

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Unheardof
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LPa Treatment Question

Post Number:#1  Post by Unheardof » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:46 pm

Hello, I am new to the forum so thanks in advance for anyone that is able to get back to me.

I am a 35 year old male and live a pretty healthy lifestyle in my opinion. Weightlifter, crossfitter, competitive soccer player, hardly any body fat. I don’t follow a super strict diet but I don’t eat any “junk.” And I did one of those comprehensive blood work tests just for fun basically. Everything came back in the green category except Lpa, which was red and I knew nothing about until my recent research.

The LPa was measured (or calculated, I don’t know) at 191 nmol/L. The other cholesterol numbers were ok.
Total C - 182 mg/dL
LDL - 106 mg/dL
HDL - 57 mg/dL
TG - 93 mg/dL

So after researching naturally I wasn’t thrilled with finding this out so I went to my GP and brought the test results. He wasn’t impressed at all. He pointed out the HDL of 57 and said as long as that number is high and you keep up your daily exercise that I shouldn’t worry about it. He said LDL could come down a little to under 100 but that’s about it.

I wasn’t happy with this answer so I booked an appointment with a cardiologist. He seemed equally unimpressed. He showed me some cardiac risk calculator that had my CVD risk at something ridiculously low but it didn’t even factor in LPa. Anyway he did a quick evaluation, told me if I should consider switching to a mostly plant-based diet and that should get the LDL down to 80 or so and not worry about the rest, and come back for an advanced lipid panel in 8 months.

I’ll do that but don’t really want to not be addressing the root problem of high Lpa in the meantime. So I’ve been obsessively researching and stumbled across this forum. It seems like vitamin C and lysine is my best course of action along with niacin in knocking the LPA number down. So I’ll start working my way up to 6g of each daily. I don’t see as much mention on niacin here, is that because it is recommended to be administered under the care of a doctor because of potential effects in liver?

Anyway if there are others here in a similar situation (seemingly perfectly healthy and in very good cariovaacular shape in terms of exercise capacity, and good other lipid numbers but very high Lpa, I’d be interested in the course of treatment you followed and if it has translated to lower tested LPa numbers. Thanks!

skwoodwiva
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Re: LPa Treatment Question

Post Number:#2  Post by skwoodwiva » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:30 pm

Unheardof wrote:Hello, I am new to the forum so thanks in advance for anyone that is able to get back to me.

I am a 35 year old male and live a pretty healthy lifestyle in my opinion. Weightlifter, crossfitter, competitive soccer player, hardly any body fat. I don’t follow a super strict diet but I don’t eat any “junk.” And I did one of those comprehensive blood work tests just for fun basically. Everything came back in the green category except Lpa, which was red and I knew nothing about until my recent research.

The LPa was measured (or calculated, I don’t know) at 191 nmol/L. The other cholesterol numbers were ok.
Total C - 182 mg/dL
LDL - 106 mg/dL
HDL - 57 mg/dL
TG - 93 mg/dL

So after researching naturally I wasn’t thrilled with finding this out so I went to my GP and brought the test results. He wasn’t impressed at all. He pointed out the HDL of 57 and said as long as that number is high and you keep up your daily exercise that I shouldn’t worry about it. He said LDL could come down a little to under 100 but that’s about it.

I wasn’t happy with this answer so I booked an appointment with a cardiologist. He seemed equally unimpressed. He showed me some cardiac risk calculator that had my CVD risk at something ridiculously low but it didn’t even factor in LPa. Anyway he did a quick evaluation, told me if I should consider switching to a mostly plant-based diet and that should get the LDL down to 80 or so and not worry about the rest, and come back for an advanced lipid panel in 8 months.

I’ll do that but don’t really want to not be addressing the root problem of high Lpa in the meantime. So I’ve been obsessively researching and stumbled across this forum. It seems like vitamin C and lysine is my best course of action along with niacin in knocking the LPA number down. So I’ll start working my way up to 6g of each daily. I don’t see as much mention on niacin here, is that because it is recommended to be administered under the care of a doctor because of potential effects in liver?

Anyway if there are others here in a similar situation (seemingly perfectly healthy and in very good cariovaacular shape in terms of exercise capacity, and good other lipid numbers but very high Lpa, I’d be interested in the course of treatment you followed and if it has translated to lower tested LPa numbers. Thanks!


Well I have done niacin for more than a year at 6 to 8 gr a day with my PT goodies & VC which I try to dose 8 times a day.

Just be sure to take a break from niacin every half year for a week (off it).

My LP(a) is now, must bo about 5. But Kaiser Permanente (Quest) cannot test below 10.

Unheardof
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Re: LPa Treatment Question

Post Number:#3  Post by Unheardof » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:54 pm

Thanks for the feedback! I actually re-read my post and think I wasn’t clear in that I intend to start taking Vit C and lysine daily (working up to 6g). My protein shakes I take daily look like they already have close to 2000mg lysine. But I would like to have my doctor or cardiologist be on board with working with me on the niacin and finding a correct dosage that is effective.

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Re: LPa Treatment Question

Post Number:#4  Post by francisunderwood » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:07 pm

I would get a retest and ask if it is calculated or measured. If it is high look into proline.

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Re: LPa Treatment Question

Post Number:#5  Post by zarfas » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:53 pm

francisunderwood wrote:I would get a retest and ask if it is calculated or measured. If it is high look into proline.

good call

Id start eating eggwhites(high in proline/lysine)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000 ... 000-w.html

get bodyfat down to 12-15%
BMI to 25

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22530540

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Re: LPa Treatment Question

Post Number:#6  Post by Unheardof » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:36 pm

Thanks, I do plan on getting re-tested in a couple months. Just trying to do what I can to lower it before then assuming my last test was accurate.

Thanks for the tips on the proline. I take pea protein shakes which have about 2000mg lysine and 1500mg proline in them but I’ll plan to supplement on top of that. Also I do eat a lot of eggs, but after the high Lpa I am looking to change that to egg whites.

One thing I was wondering if anyone knows, how can someone have such a high Lpa reading when their LDL is in the reference range. The test sheet even says LPa is a type of LDL so it seems to me it would be counted in the LDL measurement too?

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Re: LPa Treatment Question

Post Number:#7  Post by skwoodwiva » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:18 pm

Are you on a statin?
Main steam medicine ignores LPa.

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Re: LPa Treatment Question

Post Number:#8  Post by Unheardof » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:01 am

No, I am not on any prescription drugs.

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Re: LPa Treatment Question

Post Number:#9  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:13 am

But I would like to have my doctor or cardiologist be on board with working with me on the niacin and finding a correct dosage that is effective.


The question about Lp(a) being a subset of LDL is a good one, but the Lp(a) units were in nmol/l (where 90 is considered normal) and the other numbers are in terms of mass - mg/dl - which are all very good.

You cannot expect your cardiologist to know something they have NEVER been trained in. Since all pharmaceutical drugs, in fact, RAISE lp(a), American doctors haven't a clue, and do not like to be embarrassed by their patients.

The company that I had relied on for accurate Lp(a) measurements in the USA is out of business, probably for the above reasons - no cardiologist really understands anything about Lp(a).

As the Pauling/Rath patents show - if your Lp(a) really is elevated (if you are taking vitamin C consistently, that is doubtful, if not, elevated Lp(a) is likely), the best thing to do with elevated Lp(a) is take Lp(a) Binding Inhibitors - from the Pauling/Rath patents, these are vitamin C, tranexamic acid - a lysine analog that they used to get the first patent, and Niacin. later patents added proline. One patent is for "melting plaques" off organs before transplants.


Use of ascorbate and tranexamic acid (Think Lysine) solution for organ and blood vessel treatment prior to transplantation
http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Par ... PN/5230996
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: LPa Treatment Question

Post Number:#10  Post by Unheardof » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:51 am

Thank you, that is great info. I’ve learned a lot the past few days just browsing this forum so am glad I was able to find it. It’s a little unfortunate that the people we depend on to guide us in treatment are at a loss of what to do if it doesn’t follow their playbook. I think the exact remark I got from my doctor was along the lines of “LDL isn’t high enough to warrant a statin and HDL is good, so just keep up healthy diet and exercise”. Because a lot of people will probably just heed that advise and not research on their own ways to improve their health.

Ok, so starting PT of C and lysine (It looks like I get 2-3g of proline already through existing diet and supplements taken). Plan to re-test Lpa in April/May so will see how it goes.

Thanks!


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