Coenzyme Q10 Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol ?

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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georgium
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Coenzyme Q10 Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol ?

Post Number:#1  Post by georgium » Wed May 02, 2018 6:35 am

Linus Pauling advised 100 to 300 mg of Coenzyme Q10 in his Therapy Enhancements, I started to take CO Q10 for the first time lets say 10 years ago at the time it was mostly Ubiquinone, at least in my knowledge. Then since a few years, I read regularly, that mainly for older people, Ubiquinol is better. Because ubiquinol costs more to manufacture, it is more expensive for consumers to purchase and for scientists to use in research.
But I read a few days ago:Ironically, CoQ10 shifts back and forth between its ubiquinone and its ubiquinol form in a continuous cycle inside the body. This is all part of CoQ10’s role in biology. So, when you take ubiquinol, it changes to ubiquinone and vice versa. It makes no difference in which form you take the substance originally.
I thought it was interesting, here is the link maybe it could interest some members?
http://www.q10qh.com/ubiquinone-or-ubiq ... lly-matter

pamojja
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Re: Coenzyme Q10 Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol ?

Post Number:#2  Post by pamojja » Wed May 02, 2018 9:52 am

Please correct me, but as far as I know it wasn't Linus Pauling who advised on CoQ10, but Owen in his book with additional therapy enhancements.

I made the funny experience when starting CoQ10 about 9 years ago, that above 150 mg/d would cease angina-like chest-pain always present with some stress (physical or mental). Then I found out about half that amount of Ubiquinol had the same chest-pain eliminating effect. That has hold true for me since, with the only difference that if I drop below these doses, chest-pain come back, now without any stress. Though haven't heard of an other one reporting that same effect of Ubiquinone and Ubiquinol as in my case.

Also to test CoQ10 in serum only total was accessible to me. However, for more precise dosage information heard the ubiquinone/ubiquinol ratio (CoQ10ox/CoQ10red ratio; optimal ~9) would be more telling.

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Re: Coenzyme Q10 Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol ?

Post Number:#3  Post by Frodo » Wed May 02, 2018 10:35 am

I think that behind the positive reports on ubiquinol one must also see the marketing interest of the manufacturers, in particular Kaneka Nutrients.

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Re: Coenzyme Q10 Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol ?

Post Number:#4  Post by georgium » Thu May 03, 2018 8:31 am

@pamoja Yeess, of course, it in the book of Owen, absolutely right!
I must say I started taking CO Q10 round 10 years ago, maybe an advice from Mercola? I do not remember. But it was not for my heart at the time. Today Mercola swears only by Ubiquinol. since I am getting older every day :-) I was not sure any more Ubiquinone was as efficient for me. Then I found this article a few days ago and I thought maybe I should share it because I guess a good many people on this site probably use CO Q10

On the other hand, what you say about your chest pain cast a doubt on this theory of absolute similarity.

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Re: Coenzyme Q10 Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol ?

Post Number:#5  Post by Frodo » Thu May 03, 2018 11:04 am

Of course I take Q10. I think you‘ll need it when you‘re over 45. And very urgently, if you take statines - which I hope not.
After my heart attack Q10 has contributed to my left ventricular ejection fraction increasing from 47 to 63. That‘s almost back to normal.

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Re: Coenzyme Q10 Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol ?

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Sun May 20, 2018 8:06 am

Good discussion. According to Sinatra in his CoQ10 books, the important thing is getting the coq10 you "eat" into the blood stream. For this to happen, there must be fats (leading to bile) in the GI tract. Sinatra measures his patients Coq10 levels, and from his experience, I infer taking Coq10 with foods is much better than taking Coq10 on an empty stomach.

The 200 mg suggestion is based on Julian Whitaker's (M.D.) newsletter. Whitaker reported that the amount of CoQ10 to overcome the known statin-cholesterol drug depletion issue was 200 mg daily. I would probably take 600 mg to be safe, and as my Q10 paper points out,
http://www.internetwks.com/owen/coq10.htm
one study in Parkinson's disease found the highest dosage provided the most relief. (From memory, that was 1200 mg CoQ10 daily.)

I am unfamiliar with the effects of ubiquinole, though I find pamajja's report interesting (that about half the ubiquinole dosage achieved the same effect a ordinary CoQ10.) I know that Sinatra evaluated it, and was not impressed with the blood levels versus the price, at least at that time.

If ubiquinole was better absorbed, that would be an argument to take it in this form. It seems reasonable to try 50/50 (CoQ10/Ubiquinole) with meals.
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

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Re: Coenzyme Q10 Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol ?

Post Number:#7  Post by pamojja » Sun May 20, 2018 9:01 am

ofonorow wrote:If ubiquinole was better absorbed, that would be an argument to take it in this form. It seems reasonable to try 50/50 (CoQ10/Ubiquinole) with meals.


Actually ended up taking a mix. Whenever Ubiquinol is only double the price, it's worth it in my case. However, I'm really keen on finding this serum test:

However, for more precise dosage information heard the ubiquinone/ubiquinol ratio (CoQ10ox/CoQ10red ratio; optimal ~9) would be more telling.


Because my total serum levels on my relatively low doses showed relatively high at 3.31 µg/ml (0.8 - 1,4 normal range! > 3.5 is considered by some as therapeutic against heart failure, which I never had). And I really would find it instructive how that breaks down into CoQ10oxidited to CoQ10reduced.


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