Does the Lysine from food count?

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

Moderator: ofonorow

bzmazu
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:36 am
Contact:

Does the Lysine from food count?

Post Number:#1  Post by bzmazu » Wed May 02, 2018 7:01 am

A diet supplying 20 grams of protein provides approximately 1 gram (1000 mg) of L-Lysine, an amino acid building block of protein. That already gives me minimum apptox 5 gram Lysine...what was Paulings take on this? I assume he took this in consideration with his Lysine recommendation.

pamojja
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:44 am
Contact:

Re: Does the Lysine from food count?

Post Number:#2  Post by pamojja » Wed May 02, 2018 10:02 am

On can be certain that when Linus Pauling recommended a nutrient in a certain amount, that he would mean additional to that already gotten from diet. Otherwise I'm sure he would have advised first to calculate one's nutrient-intake from food first. As that could be very different for everyone.

I calculated once for 3 years my nutrient-intake, and in my example only get about 3.4 g of lysine, but 3.3 g of proline everyday from foods. So nutrients from foods can vary widely. Additional individual requirement can vary due to genetic differences (and microbiome, specific deficiencies, preconditions, etc.). Therefore dosage recommendations can only be taken as a rough guideline.

bzmazu
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:36 am
Contact:

Re: Does the Lysine from food count?

Post Number:#3  Post by bzmazu » Wed May 02, 2018 12:52 pm

Thank you

pamojja
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:44 am
Contact:

Re: Does the Lysine from food count?

Post Number:#4  Post by pamojja » Wed May 02, 2018 2:20 pm

zarfas wrote:so why wouldnt the proline/lysine also include food?


His recommendation was only meant as guideline for experimenting. If the 6 g/d of lysine recommendation would be that precise, then as the conscientious scientist he was, he would recommended first to evaluate how much of lysine one already gets from food. Like in the example, I get 3.4 g from food, would only need 2.6 g. An other getting double than me from food would need none. Needs are highly individual, just as body-weights.

https://youtu.be/7c4lwRhvI2E

Actually remember one anecdote, where 3 grams of lysine didn't help with exercise intolerance of one patient, Pauling recommended to double the dose, which worked miraculously. Guess the 6 g recommendation came from that one anecdote.

bzmazu
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:36 am
Contact:

Re: Does the Lysine from food count?

Post Number:#5  Post by bzmazu » Wed May 02, 2018 6:29 pm

Sorry, don't understand this either...it is possibly the English...the first 2 sentences seem contradictory...maybe I am just dense. I think he just recommends 6000 regardless of amt from food...the amt from food is bonus...no upper limit then? Experimenting??

pamojja
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:44 am
Contact:

Re: Does the Lysine from food count?

Post Number:#6  Post by pamojja » Thu May 03, 2018 2:46 am

In the video I just linked to Pauling says for someone healthy already 2 grams of lysine could be enough to prevent CVD. Someone with already heard-attack or 3 bypasses, would need much more lysine. Here with preconditions he encourages to experiment with higher amounts. In other videos he mentions 5-6 grams of lysine a day with preconditions.

Again, someone with 140 kg of body-weight, with multiple bypasses simply may need much, much more than an other without bypasses and 70 kg only. Everyone has to experiment to find the doses which work for one.

Even though I weight 60 kg only, when I started Pauling Therapy 9 years ago I slowly increased the doses of vitamin C and lysine. After 1 year I reached about 6 gram for both, and at that point my intermittent-claudication symptoms greatly improved. For me a sign that 6 g lysine additional to food would be just the right dose.

Other additional conditions made me increase the vitamin C dose gradually much further. And found the most benefit that way at about 23 g for me. However, the amounts I found which would work for me might not work for another. Experiment.

bzmazu wrote:...no upper limit then? Experimenting??


The upper limit is where side-effects (gastrointestinal discomfort) overweight the health-benefits. This sweet-spot is individual and has to be found by oneself. For which Pauling gives guidelines.

Here an other seemingly contradicting guideline from Pauling in his book:

Take vitamin E every day, 400 IU, 800 IU, or 1600 IU.


But only contradicting if one completely ignores that we all have different bio-chemical individuality. Different severe preconditions, completely different weight, diet, genetics, lifestyle... etc.

bzmazu
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:36 am
Contact:

Re: Does the Lysine from food count?

Post Number:#7  Post by bzmazu » Thu May 03, 2018 6:37 am

Thank you pamojja for the time and effort to explain...I get it...now it would help to check/test my heart/arteries, to see if the therapy improves anything...but medical testing here in Belize is primitive...ultrasound? lpa test, if I can find?...had stroke 5 years ago, changed my habits...now EKG shows strong heart of someone half my age (73) BP 117/72...no indications of any heart trouble at all, but sure I have atherosclerosis...I believe in the Pauling Therapy and have started it.

bzmazu
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:36 am
Contact:

Re: Does the Lysine from food count?

Post Number:#8  Post by bzmazu » Thu May 03, 2018 6:12 pm

Thanks zarfas...Yes, have studied K extensively...I take the Life Ex one several times a week and I take topical MK-4... 5 mg the other days...

bzmazu
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:36 am
Contact:

Re: Does the Lysine from food count?

Post Number:#9  Post by bzmazu » Fri May 04, 2018 7:57 am

RE K2...."The large scale clinical trials are mostly with MK-4. The Japanese also have access to MK-7 and can produce it a lot more cheaply than MK-4 by using nato. Yet, they still went with MK-4. Most of the MK-7 trials so far are sponsored by either cheese or nato industry groups. There is notable lack of studies comparing MK-7 and MK-4. Probably because MK-4 will be found superior or at least as good as MK-7. The trials so far on MK-7 focus on comparisons with K1, which we know is inferior to the menaquinones. MK-4 is also the form used by the humans for functions such as electron transport carrier and co-factor for the carboxylation of osteocalcin. MK-7 is at best a surrogate for MK-4." https://raypeatforum.com/community/thre ... mk7.13828/

pamojja
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:44 am
Contact:

Re: Does the Lysine from food count?

Post Number:#10  Post by pamojja » Fri May 04, 2018 8:11 am

I take http://www.k-vitamins.com/. Lots of literature there.

pamojja
Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:44 am
Contact:

Re: Does the Lysine from food count?

Post Number:#11  Post by pamojja » Fri May 04, 2018 1:13 pm

pamojja wrote:Actually remember one anecdote, where 3 grams of lysine didn't help with exercise intolerance of one patient, Pauling recommended to double the dose, which worked miraculously. Guess the 6 g recommendation came from that one anecdote.


My memory becomes faulty. :oops: This anecdote is actually described in Owen's http://practicingmedicinewithoutalicens ... t_chp7.pdf

The following excerpt is from the Unified Theory lecture. Linus Pauling relates the story of his invention of the Pauling therapy for cardiovascular disease, which was to add lysine to vitamin C. Dr. Pauling explains what happened in the case of the first person to try the therapy, a distinguished anonymous scientist who had asked Pauling for advice. The scientist was on disability, in pain, and generally unable to do work or exercise despite taking 5,000 mg of vitamin C daily. He asked Linus what else he might recommend for his cardiovascular disease, and Dr. Pauling recounts his own response as follows:

I didn’t have to tell him that lysine is an essential amino acid and you have to get around a gram a day to be in good health, and you get it in your foods, because he is one of the most distinguished biochemists in the United States, recipient of the National Medal of Science in the United States. So he said, “How much shall I take?” I thought, “What do I know?” I know that people get a gram or two in their food depending upon how much meat and fish they eat, that it’s essential, that they have to get around one gram. It hasn’t any known toxicity in animals or human beings. I said, “5 grams, 5 grams of lysine per day.” He thanked me.
A couple of months later he telephoned me and said, “It's almost miraculous! I started taking a gram a day and 2 grams and so on. Within a month after I had reached 5 grams a day of lysine in addition to my 5 grams of vitamin C, I could walk two miles without any nitroglycerin tablets or without any pain in the chest.” He said he had cut down the amount of heart medicine in half. “It’s almost miraculous,” he said.
Another couple of months went by and he telephoned me and said, “I was feeling so good the other day that I cut down a big tree in our yard and was chopping it up for wood, and I was also painting the house, and I got chest pains,” this despite his 5 grams of vitamin C and lysine. So he said that he “went up to 6 grams of lysine and 6 grams of vitamin C and told me, “Now I am continuing chopping down, chopping up the tree and painting the house.” And now a couple of years later he is still in fine health. — Linus Pauling [Transcribed from his 1993 Linus Pauling Unified Theory Lecture]


Return to “Linus Pauling's Vitamin C/Lysine Therapy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests