Vitamin C Forum

He basically states at around 54 minutes or so in that if you have advanced CVD, like i do you probably can't get much reversal from Vitamin C protocol. Been taking VC since march of 2017 and the disease is progressing unfortunately...I was so hopeful a year ago...I'm assuming most people don't get great results or this forum would be teaming with people screaming from the roof tops about how much better they are.

depressed

Can you tell us your supplement protocol?

Are you taking any of the below, if not you should look into it?

Serrapeptase, nattokinase, Lumbrokinase.

DMSO - Consult eDoc

Magnesium

Vitamin K

Daflon - Micronized purified flavonoid fraction (MPFF, 450 mg diosmin plus 50 mg hesperidin-Daflon 500 mg). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11510597

Liposomal C

Niacin

Also, did you check your liver enzymes recently?

If I had that bad CVD I wouldn't just rely on Vitamin C, lysine and proline. I would try everything I can!

tangy wrote:Can you tell us your supplement protocol?

Are you taking any of the below, if not you should look into it?

Serrapeptase, nattokinase, Lumbrokinase.

DMSO - Consult eDoc

Magnesium

Vitamin K

Daflon - Micronized purified flavonoid fraction (MPFF, 450 mg diosmin plus 50 mg hesperidin-Daflon 500 mg). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11510597

Liposomal C

Niacin

Also, did you check your liver enzymes recently?

Here is my protocol

Vitamin C between 16 to 20 grams a day
Lysine and Proline--- probably 2000 mg each
Vit K2 I take from Like extension Super 2 capules per day
Vit E 800 IU
Vit D 2000 IU
Vitmin B complex
Vit min A 10,000mg
COQ10 400mg
L-Arginie 1000mg
Niacin 1000mg
Magnesium 200mg
Omega 3 fish oil

i think I used to take a couple of other supplements but stopped, at this point probably costs $200 a month between all the C and supplements with only the disease progressing

Time to really try and figure out how to live on plant based diet

Thanks for your concern, i appreciate it!!!!

I've looked at studies on these things, no real proof

Serrapeptase, nattokinase, Lumbrokinase.

Just watched that section again, he makes it very clear that this only works for prevention and very early stages of CVD. I wish he had said this a year ago before wasted so much money on vitamin C and all those supplements. ....really pisses me off, but at least I know why it's not working for..... because it can't unfortunately, maybe 15 years ago it might have helped...... this sucks. Dr. Ornish here I come

Oh, yeah Dr. Ornish. Man of the year in Time Magazine.
He and his group chose to intervene with a low fat, low cholesterol vegetarian diet, smoking cessation, stress-management-training and moderate exercise. They selected 94 patients with a diagnosis of CAD according to a previous coronary angiogram. 53 were randomly assigned to the experimental group and 43 to the control group. But when told about the study design only 28 and 20, respectively, agreed to participate.
A new angiogram was performed after one year, but one of the angios disappeared, in 3 patients the second angio could not be evaluated, one patienz was not studied because of unpaid bills, one died during heavy exercise, and one dropped out because of alcohol misuse. Thus only 22 in the experimental group and 19 in the other were available for analysis. It was an unblinded study and the low number of participants also resulted in a most uneven distribution of risk factors.
To the pertinent question „Precisely how strong were the correlations between atherosclerosis and the diet“, Ornish answered that the study wasn‘t really set up to do these kinds of analyses, so when we get beyound saying they‘re corraleted, we‘re on a shaky ground“.
(all according to Dr. Uffe Ravnskov)

Our ancestors have absorbed all essential nutrients wit food. They did not need any tablets. And they did not know any heart disease.
Today it is difficult to do so. You can find a lot of informations at the forum
Ornish thought fat and cholesterol are the culprits. But that is wrong and there is no evidence.

Guitar player ..have you watched the video forks over knives..I was reluctant to watch it but a friend said so much good information in it..and the cardiologist did do studies. I always ate healthy but am thinking about giving up meat..I don’t eat much meat at all ..let me know what you think if you watch it.....it is on Netflix

Yes of course I saw Forks over knives and Ornish isn't the only one to prove though Per scans much better profusion in just weeks of going plant based. In addition do you really think insurance would pay for the Dean Ornish reversal program without strong evidence. I'm sure you haven't read the Ornish book or Esselstyn book or watched his video. Btw smaller group studies are way more accurate then large studies where you can't control what people eat. I wish vitamin was the answer but if it worked so well this forum would be teaming happy people, but I see little e evidence of that. My cardiogist is very familiar with Rath when I mentioned him, he said oh that's the vitamin Dr. He said sure try vitamin C it probably won't hurt you. But he's now in the plant camp, he's seen to much evidence that people literally get better the longer they stay plant based. Coronary arteries actually increase increase diameter and has you know you only need a small change in diameter to create huge blood flow increase, something like diameter times the 4 power. Anyway when someone shows me studies of people with real CVD disease and show me pet scans showing huge improvement in blood profusion by taking vitamin c while still eating a meat based diet I'm all ears, but being 58 I'm running out of time for this vitamin c protocol to work!!!!

guitarplayer asked:
„Do you really think insurance would pay for the Dean Ornish reversal program without strong evidence?“
Yes, I think so. Insurance pay also for drugs without „strong evidence“.
But I‘m surprised. In Germany insurance would never pay for programs like Dean Ornish reversal program.

The approach of Ornish and his friend Esselstyn is correct, of course. E a t w h a t n a t u r e g i v e s y o u.
Wrong is its conclusion that meat and fat are the bad guys.
Our ancestors have eaten what they found or hunted. Without meat they would have stayed in the woods and there would not be humans.
If you eat, move and find peace like them, every thing‘s fine. But I doubt that you‘ll succeed.

Again there's tons of evidence that people reverse their disease on a plant based diet, you can keep saying it doesn't work. ..but their plenty if evidence reported in peer review medical journals. ...show me the studies that show eating animal protein reverses the underlying cause of CVD. That's why Atkins never did a study....

guitarplayer007 wrote:Again there's tons of evidence that people reverse their disease on a plant based diet, you can keep saying it doesn't work. ..but their plenty if evidence reported in peer review medical journals. ...show me the studies that show eating animal protein reverses the underlying cause of CVD. That's why Atkins never did a study....

I didn‘t mean to stop you. Try it. I wish you all the best.

After my first heart attack I was patient of a well known physician. He recommended Dean Ornish. I did so for about 5 years. Then I suffered a „sudden heart death“ during a 10 km run. The Good Lord helped me. Most of my blood values were bad. Lp(a) very high. Homocysteine very high. Uric acid high. Low vitamin D, low iron, low magnesium, low arginine and so on. And in this time I was always too low in calories. After that I switched to a more fat, low carbohydrate diet and PT. And it works well. My heart muscle is on the best way to recover. All my blood values are optimal. Lp(a) dropped down. And I‘m back on running.

That's great, but you do realize just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it hasn't worked for many others. And again Dr. Rath states in his latest video he says I'm not saying that this will reverse people with advanced CVD. But I have seen 100's of Pet scans of before and after of people that went plant based and it's mind boggling the improvement. I wished the vitamin C had healed my arteries and released the LPa back into the blood, but i' m going on 14 months and disease is progressing I can't go on without trying something else. I'm 58... I would like to live another 15 or 20 years!!!!

Thanks

I‘ll ask Matthias Rath what he has meant.

Awesome lol