1st blood test after starting Pauling theraphy

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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fredrik949
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1st blood test after starting Pauling theraphy

Post Number:#1  Post by fredrik949 » Tue May 22, 2018 7:08 pm

Started taking 8g vitamin c 6 g Lysine and 2g Proline on a daily basis 8 months ago due to high Lipoprotein a levels. I am 34 year old otherwise healthy male, exercise regularly and eat mostly healthy. After 8 months of this my lipoprotein a levels have increased! 1 year ago when I tested them they were 118 nmol/l and now they are 146nmol/l. Also my HS CRP has increased from 2 to 2.2 and from my understanding means there is more inflammation in my arteries.

So it looks like the Pauling therapy is not working and my DR is recommending niacin and statin which I was trying to avoid by doing the pauling therapy.

Gotta say I ma disappointed, any suggestions?

pamojja
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Re: 1st blood test after starting Pauling theraphy

Post Number:#2  Post by pamojja » Wed May 23, 2018 6:50 am

fredrik949 wrote:Started taking 8g vitamin c 6 g Lysine and 2g Proline on a daily basis 8 months ago due to high Lipoprotein a levels. I am 34 year old otherwise healthy male, exercise regularly and eat mostly healthy. After 8 months of this my lipoprotein a levels have increased!


Linus Pauling patent is named: Prevention and treatment of occlusive cardiovascular disease with ascorbate and substances that inhibit the binding of lipoprotein (A), only secondarily it is mentioned that thereby it could lower Lp(a) too.

So the amount of lp(a) is actually a poor marker of the main objective of inhibiting the binding of lp(a). The most definite marker to track would be a CAC score.

Moreover, this patent is concerned with CVD, but already in good health Pauling recommended in his '86 book:

How to Live Longer and Feel Better

  • Take vitamin C every day, 6 grams to 18 g (6000 to 18,000 milligrams), or more. Do not miss a single day.
  • Take vitamin E every day, 400 IU, 800 IU, or 1600 IU.
  • Take one or two Super-B tablets every day, to provide good amounts of the B-vitamins.
  • Take 25,000 IU vitamin A tablet every day.
  • Take a mineral supplement every day, such as one tablet of the Bronson vitamin-mineral formula, which provides 100 mg of calcium, 18 mg of iron, 0.15 mg of iodine, 1 mg of copper, 25 mg of magnesium, 3 mg of manganese, 15 mg of zinc, 0.015 mg of molybdenum, 0.015 mg of chromium, and 0.015 mg of selenium.
  • Keep your intake of ordinary sugar (sucrose, raw sugar, brown sugar, honey) to 50 pounds per year, which is half the present U.S. average. Do not add sugar to tea or coffee. Do not eat high-sugar foods. Avoid sweet desserts. Do not drink soft drink.
  • Except for avoiding sugar, eat what you like - but not too much of any one food. Eggs and meat are good foods. Also you should eat some vegetables and fruits. Do not eat so much food as to become obese.
  • Drink plenty of water every day.
  • Keep active; take some exercise. Do not at any time exert yourself physically to an extent far beyond what you are accustomed to.
  • Drink alcoholic beverages only in moderation.
  • Do not smoke cigarettes.
  • Avoid stress. Work at a job that you like. Be happy with your family.


The more so necessary to pay attention to these little so often overseen details with risk-markers of CVD present. But don't take risk-markers as the actual disease, only something like a CAC score would show.

I my case I got a 60% walking-disability from PAD 10 years ago (a 80% blockage at my abdominal aorta bifurcation), which I could only reverse after 6 years of consistent comprehensive supplementation, and paying a lot of attention to dietary and lifestyle changes. My Lp(a) fluctuated between 34 to 66 mg/dl during all that 10 years and wasn't associated with worsening or improving of my intermittent claudication at all. But in retrospect the highest levels proceeded a chronic bronchitis lasting a whole year in total.

You have some inflammation going on we don't know from what, high Lp(a) is only trying to protect and isn't the enemy itself. Its like firefighters trying to contain a fire. But conventional medicine is concerned with shooting the firefighters only, without a second though about the raging flames.

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Re: 1st blood test after starting Pauling theraphy

Post Number:#3  Post by pamojja » Wed May 23, 2018 7:23 am

fredrik949 wrote:So it looks like the Pauling therapy is not working and my DR is recommending niacin and statin which I was trying to avoid by doing the pauling therapy.


When I was recommended anticoagulants, blood-lipid-, pressure- lowering medications and invasive surgery at the diagnosis of my PAD, I personally was shocked how common these medications/interventions are taken without considering the evidence of their apparently ridiculously high number needed to tread, to save just one patients life:


Statins Given for 5 Years for Heart Disease Prevention (With Known Heart Disease)

83 for mortality

In Summary, for those who took the statin for 5 years:

Benefits in NNT

1 in 83 were helped (life saved)
1 in 39 were helped (preventing non-fatal heart attack)
1 in 125 were helped (preventing stroke)

Harms in NNH

1 in 100 were harmed (develop diabetes*)
1 in 10 were harmed (muscle damage)

*The development of diabetes is one such unanticipated harm found in a recent large study and it seems likely therefore that this applies to the data above, although this is a best guess.



Blood Pressure Medicines for Five Years to Prevent Death, Heart Attacks, and Strokes

125 for mortality

In Summary, for those who took anti-hypertensives:

Benefits in NNT

1 in 125 were helped (prevented death)
1 in 67 were helped (prevented stroke)
1 in 100 were helped (prevented heart attack*)

Harms in NNH

1 in 10 were harmed (medication side effects, stopping the drug)

*fatal and non-fatal myocardial infarction and sudden or rapid cardiac death



Aspirin to Prevent Cardiovascular Disease in Patients with Known Heart Disease or Strokes

333 for mortality

In Summary, for those who took the aspirin:

Benefits in NNT

1 in 50 were helped (cardiovascular problem prevented)
1 in 333 were helped (prevented death)
1 in 77 were helped (prevented non-fatal heart attack)
1 in 200 were helped (prevented non-fatal stroke)

Harms in NNH

1 in 400 were harmed (major bleeding event*)

*Required hospital admission and transfusion



Coronary Stenting for Non-Acute Coronary Disease Compared to Medical Therapy

None for mortality

In Summary, for those who received the stenting:

Benefits in NNT

None were helped (life saved, heart attack prevented, symptoms reduced)

Harms in NNH

1 in 50 were harmed (complications such as bleeding, stroke, kidney damage)



With such high numbers needed to tread to save just 1 patient from increased 5-year mortality (beyond 5 years nothing is known) to me there are rather no alternatives to orthomolecular medicine, clean diet and life-style changes. But vitamin B3 in high doses is an additional integral part of that (just don't take prescribtion Niaspan, which with it sustained release hurts the liver).

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Re: 1st blood test after starting Pauling theraphy

Post Number:#4  Post by Saw » Mon May 28, 2018 10:32 am

As I recall, the Pauling therapy initially produces an increase in lp(a). Theory being
that lysine/proline binds to and removes lp(a) attached to the arteries thus increasing
values found in the blood. Not sure what the time line was for normal lp(a) values to return.
Even a Blind Squirrel makes his own vitamin C.

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Re: 1st blood test after starting Pauling theraphy

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Wed May 30, 2018 3:19 pm

fredrik949 wrote:Started taking 8g vitamin c 6 g Lysine and 2g Proline on a daily basis 8 months ago due to high Lipoprotein a levels. I am 34 year old otherwise healthy male, exercise regularly and eat mostly healthy. After 8 months of this my lipoprotein a levels have increased! 1 year ago when I tested them they were 118 nmol/l and now they are 146nmol/l. Also my HS CRP has increased from 2 to 2.2 and from my understanding means there is more inflammation in my arteries.

So it looks like the Pauling therapy is not working and my DR is recommending niacin and statin which I was trying to avoid by doing the pauling therapy.

Gotta say I ma disappointed, any suggestions?


I agree that using Lp(a) as an endpoint is not what we'd use after only 8 months. If you have more details you'd care to share we would be willing to help you analyze your case.

What are your total cholesterol levels? (If far about 180 mg/dl, this would be an indicator that for you, 8 grams of vitamin C is too little or not being made available. (Say if you are also diabetic. Are you?)

These are usually the main issues, but Vitamin E can have a profound effect, we recommend Unique-E (from A. C.. Grace)
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter


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