Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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sharonstar
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Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#1  Post by sharonstar » Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:20 am

I originally had not intended to post as I didn't want to discourage anyone. I'll try to be not too lengthy. I have been taking vitamin c 18 grams and lysine 6 grams for 3 years now. I thought I had met bowel tolerance sometime ago at 20 grams of vitamin c and backed down to 18 grams. My area of concern has been carotid blockages diagnosed over 10 years ago. I really think that the vitamin c and lysine have kept the blockages from progressing a whole lot but I had really expected regression. Although I have a family history of heart disease I have never been symptomatic except for elevated cholesterols and triglyceride which I guess is an indication, especially the triglycerides. After several months of blood pressure problems last year my family doctor referred me to a cardiologist who ordered a CTA that showed a 70% or greater blockage of the LAD (one of the main arteries).My right carotid blockage is now 60% and I thought I may have had a TIA recently. A recent MRA showed that I have a 90% blockage of the external carotid that supplies blood flow to the scalp and face so maybe I didn't have a TIA after all. I was sleeping on my right side and was awakened by intense numbness and tingling on the right side of my head.

After speaking with Owen thru PM I will increase the dose to see if I have another level of bowel tolerance.

I was just wondering if anyone else has had a situation similar to this. My vascular surgeon can't do carotid surgery until I am cleared by cardiac cath but since the blockages are 60% I am thinking that I can put it off a little longer to see if more vitamin c will help. Also he feels that bypass would be the answer. I am not eager to have my chest cut open with a saw and deal with all of the other possible complications that I am aware of.

I would appreciate any thoughts or past experiences any of you might have.

I am taking all of the recommended supplements such as D3,fish oil, unique E, magnesium, alpha lipoic acid, etc. So the only thing I know to do is try to take more vitamin c.

Sharon

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Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#2  Post by pamojja » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:18 pm

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties to reverse calcification despite using Pauling's Therapy for 3 years. What isn't clear to me is if it actually got worse?

Though my own situation with PAD has improved slightly since I gradually increased to Pauling's protocol since half year ago - and therefore not able to confirm what you actually asked for. However, since I'm new to this - and terrified by the helplessness of the medical establishment - I took notice of every straw I could get hold of.

sharonstar wrote:I am taking all of the recommended supplements such as D3,fish oil, unique E, magnesium, alpha lipoic acid, etc. So the only thing I know to do is try to take more vitamin c.

Though you mention 'etc.,' does this mean:

1) optimum amounts of each? (which individually could vary greatly)
2) the types with best absorption? (for example of minerals)
3) some warn that more than 2,000 IU of Vitamin A could counter Vitamin D absorption!?
4) sufficient amounts of Vitamin K1 and K2?
5) do you take any of the essential amino acids (carnetine, taurine, arginine) up to their optimum amount?
6) maybe adding some allegedly superior liposomal Vitamin-C would bring some difference?
7) OPCs?
8.) CoQ10?
9) there is this interesting report of an individual using Pauling's and Rath's protocols together with different amounts of gum guggulu, pure crystalline niacin and guar gum - while keeping track of lipids and calcification: http://www.orthomed.org/resources/papers/katzcard.htm
10) you also don't mention homocystein and B vitamins. Just read this interesting article at LEF about high homocystein levels despite Vitamin Bs: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/oct ... ine_02.htm
11) maybe some condition of the bowel or intestines is hindering the absorption of supplements and testing levels could clarify?
12) how did you adapt your nutrition?

Huuh, already a very long list, and am sorry if I only repeat what you already might have heard many times. But I could only guess, and maybe there is something helping further..

The very best..

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Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:37 am

Sharon, you may want to summarize your second message also. The type of vitamin C, the five years on statins, and fillings but no root canals, and the ache in the jaw. (Glad your weight loss is not cancer related!)

It is important to know what your C bowel tolerance is, because if you are at your tolerance at 18,000 grams, then something unusual is going on. If as I suspect, your tolerance is much higher, perhaps due to dental or other toxicity, then more vitamin C would be warranted. As I mentioned, I would try adding 2-3 Lypo-C in case absorption is an issue. (Usually people with your experience have great difficulty absorbing even hundreds of milligrams.)

I worry about the damage a five year statin-induced CoQ10 deficiency would cause, and if you read Thomas Levy's book STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER, while vitamin C is important, there are other nutrients important for the ground substance (e.g. chrondroitin) that can improve stability of the arteries. According to Pauling's theory, if plaque is building up - it is because the arteries are not stable and crack and suffer injury. The plaque process is a healing process. The primary cause of arterial weakness can be traced to low vitamin C intake, but there can be other reasons.

You might want to do a google search on "cavitations" - pockets of infection in the jaw bone. My personal dentist's brother makes a career out of removing/cleaning these pockets. He is a surgeon in Phoenix, AZ.
So let know what your current Bowel Tolerance is http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year

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Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#4  Post by sharonstar » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:58 pm

Owen, at least I hope this is not cancer related. I have had category II mammograms since 2000. Last year I passed on the mammogram and had a thermogram and will do the same this year. But I have been overweight much of my adult life and the weight loss has definitely helped with the high blood pressure. I am also taking magnesium 400 mg twice daily and CoQ10 which I believe helps with the migraines. I have taken the CoQ10 for several years but in the past few months I have upped the dosage too 300 mg twice daily which may have helped the headaches also. I have been seeing an alternative doctor for his opinion on the carotid blockages and headaches. He recommends IV chelation and I am not ready or sure I would want to do that. For the headaches he ordered a gut test which you have to be off all vitamins for 2 days which I wasn't willing to do. I really wanted the ELISA test for food allergies but our insurance doesn't cover that so he ordered IgG, IgM,IgA and IgE. I understand that is related to the immune system so I'm not sure where that fits in. I did pick up the lab results and the IgM and IgE levels are at the very lowest of the reference range so maybe I have another problem. My appointment with him isn't until med Sept so I don't have a clue and haven't really found the answer on line.

I'm still not sure of the bowel tolerance. I did take more yesterday and have almost had diarrhea twice today but not yesterday so we'll see. Yesterday I took about 24 grams of vitamin c.

As I explained by PM I have taken the vitamin c as ascorbic acid since 2006, first in pills from Sam's, and over the years I have taken vitamin c with citrus bioflavonoids from Puritan's Pride, also vitamin c from Swanson's and have recently started the vitamin c powder (pharmaceutical grade) from NOW. The vitamin c form has always been ascorbic acid. You have mentioned Lypo-c and I also see that A-9 has other beneficial supplements. If I could only chose one of those which one would be the best for my situation?

Labs done on August 8th has total cholesterol as 217,triglycerides as 146, HDL 37, LDL calc. 151, VLDL 29 Vitamin D is 54.8 and homocysteine is 7.3. Fibrinogen is 418 and is down from 477 in December of last year.

I haven't checked out the cavitations yet but will do so. The vascular surgeon thought the jaw pain was a type of angina since I have the coronary blockages. Actually it isn't pain, maybe a dull ache and generally only lasts a few minutes. Maybe once it lasted for about an hour.

Looking at Dr. Levy's list of recommended supplements I do see that I am missing some of them. I wish he or someone sold a product with all of them included. But I do take the majority of them.

I appreciate everyone's help and recommendations.

Sharon

J.Lilinoe

Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#5  Post by J.Lilinoe » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:40 am

Hi Sharon, try doing a search for "serrapeptase" and "nattokinase". These
are enzymes supposedly able to clean debris from the arteries.
http://www.themiracleenzyme.info/

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Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#6  Post by sharonstar » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:39 pm

Thanks J. Lilinoe for those references. Actually my alternative doctor mentioned nattokinase a few weeks ago and we got side tracked onto talking about time released l-arginine and I didn't get to ask him if I could take the natto with fish oil, and vitamin e since they both have a little blood thinning effect(I think) and I also use raw garlic quite a bit. My next appointment isn't until mid September.

I have a cardiac cath scheduled for next Tuesday and will meet with the cardiologist on Monday when I have the pre admission testing. I am going to really stress to him that I don't want a stent or any surgery unless the blockages are very severe and more than were revealed on the last CTA. I think Owen is onto something that I am not taking enough vitamin c and would to give it more time.

When your mother was recently in the hospital had she been on the vitamin c before being admitted? If so did she go a day or any time without it? I am taking mine with me since I will be staying over night and will load up the night before the cath. I hope she is still doing well. It's not my idea to have the cardiac cath but the vascular surgeon says it is necessary to have clearance before carotid surgery, My PCP's office is willing to order the test to see if I did have a TIA. If not, I will put that on hold.. It may be my imagination or coincidence but I have felt so much better since I started taking the powdered ascorbic acid. Blood pressure is so much better and I really think I could but the medication in half. I take 600 mg of COQ10 too which is a factor I am sure.

Thanks again,
Sharon

J.Lilinoe

Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#7  Post by J.Lilinoe » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:15 pm

Sharon,
Dr. Langsjoen (cardiologist from Tyler Texas) says that ubiquinol which is the reduced form of ubiquinone (CoQ10) is 8 times more absorbable. Between Jan and June 2009 my mom was taking between 200 and 300 mgs of ubiquinol. I give my mom the Healthy Orgins brand, 50 mgs size and order it from I-herb.
My mom began taking Ascorsine-9 only a week before her surgery. Before that I was trying to give her at least 3000 mgs of Vitamin C daily for 6 months. Yes, on the day of her angiogram, she could not eat so she did not take Ascorsine 9. The next day she took ascorsine 9 again but the following day before her surgery they told her to stop taking her vitamins. She was also off of her vitamins while she was in the hospital for 5 days and for 2 days after that. So she was off for over a week. However, she is now back on Ascorsine-9 and gets one dose per day. I think its very wise of you to take your vitamins with you. You might consider telling your doctor that you want to take your vitamins so that he will notify the nursing staff and they will end up keeping the vitamins and giving it to you as often as they are instructed. Otherwise, if you don't tell him, you will have to hide the vitamins and take them when no one can see you assuming that you are wide awake and functioning well after the surgery. I really hope all goes well with you. JL

SEADOG

Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#8  Post by SEADOG » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:42 pm

Sharon
I would strongly suggest including Ayurveda & Yogic Kriyas to your protocol.
At the worst these will not harm you and there is increasing evidence that these simple
changes in lifestyle do work.
For a start you may try changing your cooking medium to Organic Virgin Coconut Oil
which though a saturated fat is coming back into the limelight. Do a search on the internet
to see the research.
A very powerful and effective yogic breathing technique is Kapalbhati and Anulom Vilom which has
anecdotal evidence of reversing plaques. You can contact a yoga teacher to learn it.
Baba Ramdev a maverick Indian yoga guru claims to have clinical evidence in his Ayurvedic Hospital
in Haridwar of reversing plaques thru Kapalbhati and Anulom Vilom. He maintains a website
http://www.divyayoga.com and has recently released a book on the power of Pranayama (yogic breathing)
with evidence of healing from his trials.
Since I am based in India, do let me know if you need more information.
All the best to you

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Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#9  Post by sharonstar » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:30 am

Thanks J. Lilinoe and SEADOG. YEsterday my mother was admitted to the hospital with a very severe bladder infection and I cancelled the cardiac cath for next week. Very sad for her. She is 90 years old but very with it mentally until 36 hours ago and her behavior is like someone with full blown Alzheimers. I have seen this with a close friend before and hope that the antibiotics will turn it all around. So this will buy me some time to continue to increase the vitamin C and the try the yoga. I am hoping to convince the cardiologist to give me a few months before surgery if it is indicated.

Sharon

J.Lilinoe

Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#10  Post by J.Lilinoe » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:13 pm

Sharon, very sorry to hear about your mom. Hmmm, wonder if
vitamin c would help her?
Yes, beef up on your vitamin c. The ascorsine-9 is a good product because everything in it is focused on the heart.

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Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#11  Post by sharonstar » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:47 am

J. Lilinoe,
Sorry to be slow in responding as I have been at the hospital nearly round the clock with my Mom. But I found out something interesting today and thought I'd share. You mentioned vitamin c and yes, Mom has been taking 1,000 mg of vitamin c for several years and she has been taking 4,000 I.U. of vitamin D3 for quite some time, also cod liver oil. She had a carotid ultrasound today and would you believe she only has 30% minimum blockages on each side. Also her echo turned out really good. However it seems she has had several mini strokes and it is pretty clear that she will be going to a nursing home. So the vitamin c has definitely helped her.

Sharon

J.Lilinoe

Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#12  Post by J.Lilinoe » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:17 pm

Sharon, thanks for the update on your mom. Good to know that the vitamin C and D had a positive impact on her carotid arteries. Sorry to hear about her mini strokes. I wonder if you might be able to take her to see Dr. Privetera in California? I posted an article (at the Rants Section) by Bill Sardi about him and how he resolved blood clots in the coronary arteries by recommending magnesium, fish oil, or enzymes (nattokinase or bromelain) or tumeric or resveratrol. I wonder if he would be of help to your mom?


http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi118.html

zavron

Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#13  Post by zavron » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:26 am

Found this about James R Privitera M.D:

http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/priv ... aint.shtml

J.Lilinoe

Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#14  Post by J.Lilinoe » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:35 pm

Found this about James R Privitera M.D:

http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/priv ... aint.shtm
l


Thanks for finding this. I see that Dr. Barret has changed his name to Casewatch instead of Quackwatch. I will send the info to Bill Sardi who wrote the article however as the incident looks pretty serious.

J.Lilinoe

Re: Has anyone not experienced reversal on Pauling protocol?

Post Number:#15  Post by J.Lilinoe » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:18 am

I emailed Bill Sardi yesterday and sent him the info from casewatch about Dr. Privitera but he hasn't responded.


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