Low Cholestrol = Hi Death Rate

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Johnwen
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Low Cholestrol = Hi Death Rate

Post Number:#1  Post by Johnwen » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:32 pm

To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Low Cholestrol = Hi Death Rate

Post Number:#2  Post by jknosplr » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:24 am

Hello
Been following your posts for a time, I like the matrix you constructed for VC intake based on body weight mg/kg . I am currently on the protocol, 15-20gr/day VC 6gr/day L-lysine and 6gr/day L-Proline as recommended by the Pauling/Rath therapy and have been for over 2 years. Also supplement with other vitamins.
Question.
1. Do you suffer from CVD? I have read on the board that Owen does not.
2. Is there any data that supports the reduction of plaque in the arteries around the heart? By data I mean ultra sound test or another test that actually measures the plaque before and after a defined test period using this protocol. Not some one as my self who claims they “feel better” after a period of time being on the protocol. Then having an atomic EKG, Stress Test, etc that a Cardiologist administered and tells the patient all is well. The patients interpretation then is posted on this board, may or may not be interpreted by readers as the defacto standard for the cure, all is well keep on the protocol.
I’m not trying to be critical of the board’s good intentions, but until you lived through several years of doctors telling you to be on Cholesterol lowering drugs, reading every topic you can find on your condition. Commissioning an all-natural protocol as the Pauling/Rath therapy, having a doctor do several catherizations, learning that the arteries are supposedly in the same condition as when you started the protocol. Having a ultra sound test done in conjunction with the cath that is said “will give a slightly different reading” each time its is administered. Still no positive results i.e. reduction in plaque build up!
After a time frame say 2 years one wonders if they are on the right track or they are just spinning their wheels. All the while people on a board who never lived it are recommending what some one who is fighting for their life should be taking and doing.
Don’t take my position as finding fault, I am critiquing positively. There is much positive data on this board and I for one have learned much about my condition and will continue.
I have seen positive physical change in the last two years since being on the Pauling protocol. Seen more change when I added 6 gr/day of L-Proline last 03/01/2009. But it appears that there is not cardiovascular change as I can determine, but I cannot internally inspect my arteries either!
I read on the board that Cholesterol levels are not a major indicator of heart disease but every one including posters, and myself, are continually monitoring cholesterol and talking about it not just on the board either. My cardiologist indicated that the way doctors will be looking at cholesterol in the future is going to change (non hdl cholesterol). After much reading I am more of the belief that heart disease is an inflammation problem (previous life style) not a dietary one as more and more data becomes available. But I’m no doctor or even close to one, so again I’m at odds here.
I intend to stay with the protocol for the simple reason that the board is not hiding or hoarding the formula for profit. All data as it becomes available is posted in layman. I can get any and all of the elements of the protocol needed from third parties. This in its self bears credence of your intent of trying to give people an alternative and sincerely attempting to help them. One last item ”I do feel better”??

Thanks for you time John H Knospler Sr

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Re: Low Cholestrol = Hi Death Rate

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:39 am

We value healthy skepticism! While we wait for Johnwen response, realize that even his opinion is anecdotal.

We have posted reports from hundreds of people. The salient point is Linus Pauling. These are his and Matthias Rath's ideas. We are just publicizing his research and claims, which have been completely ignored by medicine and the media. Listen to Pauling at your own risk, but most people find the effect miraculous. The worse off the more miraculous.

By the way, I have compiled all the science you seem to be looking for, such as it is, in our book PRACTICING MEDICINE WITHOUT A LICSENSE.

http://www.practicingmedicinewithoutalicense.com/

Starting with the early Willis studies in Canada which "proved" that low vitamin C causes atherosclerosis in humans and guines pigs, and that vitamin C at a fairly modest dose reverses atherosclerosis. See:
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/pdfs/

And yes it is utterly beyond belief that this earlier work wasn't followed up and confirmed. It has simply been ignored.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Low Cholestrol = Hi Death Rate

Post Number:#4  Post by Johnwen » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:01 pm

In 2001 my wife underwent triple bypass surgery when they placed the bypass graft into left circumflex extension(lcx) between(m1) Marginal branch and (m2) marginal branch. The plaque was between the junction of the LDA,LCX and the M1 however after the graft the plaque began to descend into the m1 instead of being pushed back by the back pressure from the graft. Being fresh out of surgery they were not willing to go back in and they wanted wait a month and do Brachetherapy. I’m Sorry but this is not my idea of good medicine and I set out to find away around it. Being familiar with Pauling’s writings on orthomolecular psychiatry. I pursued it and found a company that based it’s formula on his theories. She began taking it and was set to go along with the radiation. At the procedure, I was ask into the lab area. The doctor came out and asked me, ”What did you do to her?” I was kind of shocked and said “Nothing just some vitamins Why?” He said , “It’s all gone! Were not going to do nothing but send her home.” I thought if that stuff did that I’m going to take it too. We both have taken it since! Me I had a Carotid Artery go up to 30% occlusion and back down to zero about a year and half ago. I was taking the same amount as my wife and that’s when the dosage issue came into play. You can read this at the “It’s the dosage stupid.” Thread. Yes I’ve seen regression of plaque in a short period of time! However it was new forming. Plaque can sit in your arteries for years and harden like concrete and not cause any problems then when it’s discovered they want it gone now! That’s not going to happen it will take time to break the shell and start the healing process in the mean time other places that are starting the process will be healed before it gets out of hand. This being done following the Pauling protocol.
As far as Inflammation! Ask yourself these questions. Have I ever had a cut that got inflamed? OR Did I have an inflammation that got cut? (Except by a doctor) Did I get a runny nose and go out in the cold? OR Did I go in the cold and got a runny Nose? Your body response to injury with what Dr. Pauling refers to as a “Cascade of Events!” Inflammation is only one of the events that occur after the injury to the artery. Which Dr Pauling Identified as, ”Chronic Scurvy.” Breaking down the collagen that holds the cells together and allowing leakage which the body must stop.
Reading your post I would like to ask if you have tried titrating to Bowel Tolerance. Then you would have a good idea how much V-C your body really needs. Everybody’s Different, Everyday’s Different!
God Gave us Cholesterol to protect our bodies and our wallets. Big Pharm and Doctors gave us statins to remove the protection from both!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Low Cholestrol = Hi Death Rate

Post Number:#5  Post by jknosplr » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:03 pm

I am glad to here that you and your wife is doing well and hopefully will continue. Yes I titrate to tolerance almost every day @157mg/kg or 15+ or - gr/day. I started at 5gr/day on 01/01/08 and quickly within two months was at 15gr/day. At that time I also went on 2gr/day L-lysine. On 03/01/09 I increased the L-lysine to 6gr/day and added 6gr/day L-Pro-line. The mixture is in 12 oz water bottle @ 4-5 bottles /day. I carry a bottle with me and sip as if I was drinking straight H2O, works fine for me. As for the blockages I do understand that one cannot correct in three months what it took 50 years to destroy. You and your wife happened to get lucky, got to the problem in time, and or came from a gene pool more resilient to plaque build up. Both sets of my grandparents lived well into their ninety’s and never knew what vitamin C was?? I would venture to say neither did yours.
I would think that one would see some positive results in two years of strict adherence to the protocol. But again, I have no base line except for what a doctor tells me what he thinks he see’s. I question how a doctor can tell in a dye test by eyeballing what percentage of occlusion there is in an artery. Like hearing” they found 100% blockage in the LAD”, well hello… if you have 100% blockage your dead! We all know there is no such thing and still be breathing, must have been doing an autopsy to fine that one! There are so many variables that are unknown, I mentioned just a few. I find it frustrating that the more I learn about heart diseases the less control I have over it and the less I know about it.
Again thanks for your time.

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Re: Low Cholestrol = Hi Death Rate

Post Number:#6  Post by pamojja » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:45 am

jknosplr wrote:... within two months was at 15gr/day. At that time I also went on 2gr/day L-lysine. On 03/01/09 I increased the L-lysine to 6gr/day and added 6gr/day L-Pro-line. The mixture is in 12 oz water bottle @ 4-5 bottles /day. I carry a bottle with me and sip as if I was drinking straight H2O, works fine for me.

If ascorbic acid has a half-life of 4 hours in water. That would mean if you prepared the bottles in the morning and drink one of them every 2 hours during an 8 hour day you actually would only get the following amounts:
0 hrs - 3ooo mg
2 hrs - 2250 mg
4 hrs - 1500 mg
6 hrs - 1125 mg
8 hrs - 750 mg

In total 8625 mg only - and not the 15 grams you thought.
jknosplr wrote:There are so many variables that are unknown, I mentioned just a few. I find it frustrating that the more I learn about heart diseases the less control I have over it and the less I know about it.
Again thanks for your time.

Check out this pragmatic evaluation of some other important variables (if you haven't already done):
http://www.trackyourplaque.com/
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/

Regards..

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Re: Low Cholestrol = Hi Death Rate

Post Number:#7  Post by jknosplr » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:09 am

I read the half life of Vc is half hour in your system, and approx 4 hours in a bottle, I prepare the bottles as needed because of exactly what you indicated. There fore the lose while in the bottle is negligible. I will look at the links Thanks again!

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Re: Low Cholestrol = Hi Death Rate

Post Number:#8  Post by Johnwen » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:44 am

My first thought is what Dr. Pauling said, ”Don’t stop taking your vitamin C not even for a day!” In your case this applies more then you can imagine. Your Doc says you have a 100% ???? In the LDA this is possible if your one of the FEW who have grown new vessels without counter pulse therapy.
The formation of collaterals (small branches of blood vessels) to create a natural bypass around narrowed or blocked arteries
However it also leads to another problem which is addressed here.
http://www.internetwks.com/pauling/caveat.htm
There is some light we can shed on your situation. First let’s look at how the body heals a problem with the lumen of an artery. A leakage starts as described before. The compromised area becomes a magnet to LP(a) which blocks the broken collagen ends and sets up as a receptor for the next event which is foam cells which are oxidized lipoprotein. There is thousand of articles that will tell you how terrible they are but in fact they are natures antiseptic. Bacteria and virus’s are about 90% anaerobic meaning they can’t reproduce in a oxidized state and die. This is like putting hydrogen peroxide on a cut. In the blood is natural scavengers called macrophages and monocytes the M&M’s. They get stuck in the foam and go to the problem site looking for dead cells to encapsulate. When they find them they try to get out of the foam and head to the liver some make it some don‘t. About that time the liver seeing and increase in garbage being processed out, responds by producing more lipoproteins which in turn gets stuck on the foam and produces a putty like substance we call plaque. The liver errors on the safe side meaning once it’s triggered it will produce elevated lipo’s for some time after it should lower it’s production or the vitamin D levels are low and it keeps high in hope of sunlight. This sticky putty starts attracting more stuff, red blood cells get stuck and die. An attempt to stop this goes by the name Clopidoyrel Bisulfate. M&Ms scavenge them, take them to the liver, Liver responses More lipo! Now we have a deficit of M&M’s the bones respond and up the production of M&Ms but do to hi demand along with them the bones also shed osteoblasts. Normally they will only go back to the bone. However now they get stuck in the putty and start attracting calcium which now starts to cover the putty with a calcium coat. The osteoblasts will cease their functions most of the time and over time will also be encapsulated by the progressing calcium. The plaque itself combines with the calcium and solidifies to form a stucco like cover over the injury. Your best hope is the calcium coat starts before to much junk builds up on the putty and totally blocks the artery. Once the crisis is over the body can stabilize it’s levels. In major arteries we have a back door called the vasa vasorum which are blood vessels that supply blood to the artery organ. If there’s a compromise in the lumen, blood can come from the intima and along with it the necessities to repair the damage and remove the bodies bandage. In arterioles like what is commonly called “Coronary Arties,” which there isn’t any external vessels supplying them. On these we have to remove the bandage to repair the damage. Vitamin C is an acid and will change the ph of the blood and begin to dissolve the calcium coat. This take some time since the ph change isn’t that great. Here is a neat little experiment. Take a calcium tablet and crack it in half to expose the calcium from the tablets coat and place it in a Half of glass of vinegar and let it set for awhile. Shake the glass around and look at it. Looks like watered down milk with some foam on top of it. Now take a D3 Tablet crack it in half and drop them in and watch. Wait for awhile and look at the bottom of the glass. You see how the calcium is attracted to the D3 so instead of the calcium just dissolving and reattaching to the build up, it is drawn to the D3. In a dynamic setting like the inside of a artery we are now able to mobilize the calcium thru out the body. If we don’t give it direction the kidneys will just process it out, some will be absorbed into the cells. Our body needs calcium and uses the bones as a bank for it. So why not make a deposit for use later. We now can add a substance that will lower the hormone that causes osteocasts (Takes calcium out of the bones) and raises the hormone that raises the production of osteoblasts (Puts calcium back into bones) . This substance is Vitamin K2-MK7 Menaquinone.
This is a very simplistic overveiw of what Dr. Pauling Called “Cascade of events,” in response to damage inside an artery. You have everything in place to do the repair plus a good amount of VC to start the process now we have to break the shell to let the healing begin. Vitamin C, Vitamin D3 and Vitamin K2-MK7 is the hammer. The healing process itself is very well presented at this site.
http://www.ourhealthcoop.com/pauling.htm
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Re: Low Cholestrol = Hi Death Rate

Post Number:#9  Post by jknosplr » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:51 pm

My first thought is what Dr. Pauling said, ”Don’t stop taking your vitamin C not even for a day!” In your case this applies more then you can imagine. Your Doc says you have a 100% ???? In the LDA this is possible if your one of the FEW who have grown new vessels without counter pulse therapy.




I'm sorry you mis read my communication or I presented it incorrectly. I do NOT have 100% blocked artery. I was speaking of other people I have heard of having a cath done, miraculously finding a "100%" blocked artery and then having angioplasty followed by a stent. My point being that if a person has a 100% blocked artery then there is massive muscle damage and death usually occurs i.e when a plaque cap finely ruptures the clotting blood blocks the artery in the case of LAD(widow maker) usually death occurs, Tim Russert example. I have no intentions of stopping the Pauling/Rath therapy, my issue is I would like to see or learn that I am moving in the right direction. By that I mean physical evidence that the program is working. Besides "I'm feeling better" Thanks for the links and your response.


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