Bad C Info from Sarah at Healthy Home Economist

What is vitamin C? Is there such a thing as a vitamin C complex? Why do so many people now believe in the complex?

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Bad C Info from Sarah at Healthy Home Economist

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:28 am

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/is-your-vitamin-c-the-real-deal-or-a-gmo-wannabe/#more-11877

After a discussion of the benefits of vitamin C, she writes this!?

The Truth about Ascorbic Acid Falsely Called “Vitamin C”

The problem is that most vitamin C is not really vitamin C at all. It is ascorbic acid, a lab synthesized version not found anywhere in nature, which is only one part (the outer layer) of the complete vitamin C complex.

Consumption of isolated ascorbic acid is not a good idea on a regular basis. Some evidence suggests that large doses may lead to imbalances and deficiencies in the flavonoids (vitamin P), a powerful family of over 6,000 antioxidants that have a symbiotic working relationship with vitamin C – each increasing the other’s effect.

lEven more worrisome is that ascorbic acid, while proven to kill bacteria effectively, is not discriminatory in its anti-microbial abilities as it also wipes out good bacteria or probiotics in the gut. Whole foods based vitamin C does not harm beneficial intestinal bacteria in the same way as synthetic vitamin C does.

Another wake up call about ascorbic acid – it is synthesized from corn syrup. If you take a vitamin C supplement with ascorbic acid, you guessed it, you are likely consuming a supplement with GMO origins (unless the corn was certified organic) without even knowing it!

To show you just how common GMO derived, probiotic destroying ascorbic acid masquerading as true vitamin C is, I took photographs of the labels of three extremely popular vitamin C supplements at the healthfood store. The pictures to the right show that there is no real vitamin C to be found in any of them, even the children’s yummi bears!
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Bad C Info from Sarah at Healthy Home Economist

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:30 am

Another link from "Sarah"...

Beware of Ascorbic Acid – Synthetic Vitamin C
http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/beware-of-ascorbic-acid-synthetic/
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Bad C Info from Sarah at Healthy Home Economist

Post Number:#3  Post by randian » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:41 am

Where is this "vitamin c complex" notion coming from? I see it all over "health food" websites.

The "OMG, it's from GMO sources" bit seems absurd as well. Unless you can show that GMO-based ascorbic acid is an isomer who cares that it came from GMO sources? Once you've processed down to pure ascorbic acid you shouldn't be able to tell where it came from, just like iron is the same no matter where you got the ore from. That's why I wonder about people who claim that corn-based vitamin c doesn't work for them. The only way that's possible is if (1) it's actually an isomer of ascorbic acid, or (2) the powder is contaminated. The former could have wildly deleterious effects on the body. You'd think somebody would have noticed the latter and blown the whistle.

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Re: Bad C Info from Sarah at Healthy Home Economist

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:19 pm

I'll move this where it belongs - the the "Vitamin C Complex" forum as this notion has been around a long time, fed by several books that we have already challenged, one by Sally Faloon who is a reputable advisor to Weston-Price. People are apparently easily swayed by this notion even though there isn't an iota of evidence such a natural complex exists.

Ironically the fear that "ascorbic acid" was harmful, is the reason why Berkley Biddell's Foundation for Alternative and Integrative Medicine declined to fund a study of Linus Pauling's vitamin C and lysine protocol for heart disease. It is ironic, because Pauling's therapy has (so far) saved Mr. Beddels life after we were told more than a year ago that he was on his deathbed with heart disease.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Bad C Info from Sarah at Healthy Home Economist

Post Number:#5  Post by tjohnson_nb » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:52 pm

It's a shame all that work that went into isolating the molecules we call 'vitamins' is called into question when someone comes along and says "that's not the real vitamin". The internet is a remarkable place but READER BEWARE! Actually I don't see a problem if someone wants to define Vit C Complex as a certain group of molecules go for it - but the term "vitamin C" is already taken - sorry. 8)
'Always' and 'never' are 2 words you should always remember never to use.

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Re: Bad C Info from Sarah at Healthy Home Economist

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:16 pm

I just attempted to post this comment on Sarah's blog, recorded here in case it doesn't make it through moderation.

Hello Sarah,
It is hard to be expert at everything, and we have noted that some very well respected individuals have been swayed by the “natural vitamin C complex” idea, ever though there isn’t any scientific evidence that this complex is vitamin C. I thought the very first question was excellent, about intravenous vitamin C. Would you want the “Radiant Life Vitamin C” in an IV bag? And if not, why would you feel comfortable taking this mixture orally? Now I just looked at Radiant’s page that you linked to. The 90 capsules with 120 mg of vitamin C each means that 10.8 grams of vitamin C runs $22. At that price, our 300 gram non-gmo, pure ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder would be sold for $660 per jar!?! Forgetting the extremely high prices of these so-called “natural complex products”, there is probably nothing in science that is more solid than the idea that ascorbic acid is vitamin C. Our Foundation published a white paper with the other side of this story http://vitamincfoundation.org/NaturalC.htm
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Bad C Info from Sarah at Healthy Home Economist

Post Number:#7  Post by davids1 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:26 pm

I'd like to chime in [with a few questions and comments].

Sarah wrote,
...ascorbic acid, a lab synthesized version not found anywhere in nature...
It is my understanding that pure ascorbic acid [C6H8O6] is produced in the livers [or kidneys] of virtually every animal on earth. How is that "not found anywhere in nature?"

Sarah wrote,
...ascorbic acid....Some evidence suggests that large doses may lead to imbalances and deficiencies in the flavonoids (vitamin P)...
What "evidence?" Where?

Sarah wrote,
...ascorbic acid, while proven to kill bacteria effectively, is not discriminatory in its anti-microbial abilities as it also wipes out good bacteria or probiotics in the gut."
What evidence is there that ascorbic acid "wipes out good bacteria or probiotics in the gut?" How have so many lived so [apparently] healthfully for so many DECADES on daily mega doses of "pure" ascorbic acid, if it "wipes out" their needed gut bacteria? How have so many recovered from so many diseases, if it "wipes out" their needed gut bacteria?

Sarah wrote,
"Whole foods based vitamin C does not harm beneficial intestinal bacteria in the same way as synthetic vitamin C does."
And WHY would that be? What evidence is there for that?

Sarah wrote,
...about ascorbic acid – it is synthesized from corn syrup. If you take a vitamin C supplement with ascorbic acid...you are likely consuming a supplement with GMO origins...
What difference does it make where or what it was synthesized from? The "pure" ascorbic acid molecule [C6H8O6] is just that, period. The astronauts drink water derived from their own [and their fellow astronaut's] urine. Does that make the water molecule [H2O] ANY different from the water molecule ["derived"] from any other source? Pure water is pure water, regardless of its source, and pure ascorbic acid is pure ascorbic acid, regardless of its source.

I'm afraid I must "call a spade a spade." This simply appears to be "pure" marketing, masquerading as fact based information!

Just my viewpoint and "two cents worth,"

David
JFYI, I have ingested a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid [via one gram tablets], in HEALTH, not illness [of which I have had virtually none], basically every day since 1994, amounting to [currently], on average, 75+ grams [daily], in 10 to 15 divided doses.

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Re: Bad C Info from Sarah at Healthy Home Economist

Post Number:#8  Post by torisellon » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:45 pm

I was happy to find this thread because several months ago I read this post by Sarah after I read the Primal Panacea. I have to say her comment about C killing good bacteria has been a nagging thought in my head. I also was struck that there were no references for her comment. I contacted the Weston A Price foundation for clarification and didn't hear a reply, but after reading the threads regarding Thomas Cowan and Sally Fallon, I now understand why. I'd like to ask here though, are there any references that prove otherwise? Anything that proves that C doesn't harm flora?

The argument that people have been doing high dose C for years doesn't cut it for me. People are doing all kinds of things that destroy good bacteria. I have lyme and it's why I'm looking into high dose C, but many people take years of antibiotics to treat their lyme and there are some who say they get better from that method, but that clearly kills good bacteria. People do chemo and reach remission, but that absolutely kills good bacteria.

I just want to be clear here. I am not bashing C. I hope dearly it's the cure I'm hoping for, but I do want to have all my facts clear before I start treating so any insight here that would bolster confidence in C's ability to kill only the bad stuff would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tori

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Re: Bad C Info from Sarah at Healthy Home Economist

Post Number:#9  Post by ofonorow » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:11 am

I think this argument may have some merit, because we evolved, like the other species, to make our own vitamin C, not eat it. So the amount in the digestive tract (if we were making it) would be minimal. Ergo we cannot say because the animals don't experience this problem (loss of friendly gut flora) it doesn't exist.

Logically, what would be the problem if important gut flora were wiped out by high vitamin C?

For one thing, I suppose our supply of vitamin K would be diminished. (My wife and I take high vitamin C, and her calcium score from a Fast CT scan was zero. If we didn't have gut flora, and no vitamin K, the end result would be calcification of soft tissues.)

I suppose digestion would be affected. I have followed in the foot steps of Linus Pauling since 1986, taking about 18,000 mg of vitamin C daily (usually 2 doses of 9,000 mg every 12 hours.) I have no digestive problems. Neither has my wife.

And while Pauling reportedly died of prostate cancer, he lived to age 94 (after almost dying at age 40 of a normally fatal kidney disease. After this he started taking a daily multivitamin. He only learned about vitamin C from Irwin Stone around age 60, and lived another 30 years. (ref: Linus Pauling in his own words. Edited by Barbara marinacchi)
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”


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