ascorbic acid depletes real vitamin c from the body?!

What is vitamin C? Is there such a thing as a vitamin C complex? Why do so many people now believe in the complex?

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FishermansWife
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ascorbic acid depletes real vitamin c from the body?!

Post Number:#1  Post by FishermansWife » Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am

Here we go again! A friend I introduced to vitamin c is in a Facebook magnesium group where these people claim ascorbic acid depletes the bodies real vitamin c and is a pro oxidant. Here's their site. This is so frustrating to have to constantly defend ascorbic acid because of these people.
http://kathleenbarnes.com/the-real-vitamin-c/
What do you think of this?
Last edited by FishermansWife on Sat May 10, 2014 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
My 5 year old Kota, "I know what vitamin c does, it hugs your heart."

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Re: ascorbic acid depletes ral vitamin c from the body?!

Post Number:#2  Post by davids1 » Thu May 08, 2014 2:01 pm

Hi Katie,

You may care to consider:

If it is true, i.e. that
FMC wrote:...ascorbic acid depletes the bodies real vitamin c and is a pro oxidant.
I [for one] should be sick or dead [after personally ingesting over 900 pounds of it over the past 20 years] vs. experiencing the seemingly superior health that I am. True? Also, what of the seemingly "miraculous" results achieved by Dr. Cathcart [with many thousands of patients] using [typically] ascorbic acid alone? Those are real-world practical [vs. idealistic theoretical] results!

Those people have a sort of "religious" faith in their "purist" dietary beliefs that flies in the face of tens-of-thousands of studies using ascorbic acid [alone] with beneficial results. Perhaps that "faith" cannot ultimately be argued with using science and/or "real-world" examples.

Here is an excellent article written by Owen dealing with [many of] their assertions: http://vitamincfoundation.org/NaturalC.htm

Also, these two forum topics deal with the subject: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum ... .php?t=758 and http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum ... =14&t=1761

I hope that helps, Katie,

David
JFYI, I have ingested a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid [via one gram tablets], in HEALTH, not illness [of which I have had virtually none], basically every day since 1994, amounting to [currently], on average, 75+ grams [daily], in 10 to 15 divided doses.

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Re: ascorbic acid depletes ral vitamin c from the body?!

Post Number:#3  Post by tjohnson_nb » Thu May 08, 2014 9:24 pm

Why don't you ask them what is the structure of "the real vitamin C molecule", that Kathleen Barnes refers to often?
'Always' and 'never' are 2 words you should always remember never to use.

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Re: ascorbic acid depletes ral vitamin c from the body?!

Post Number:#4  Post by FishermansWife » Fri May 09, 2014 5:41 am

So this man I am debating with is a writer in the book. Turns out he is a CEO for trace minerals inc. I expect this out of some financially involved. He probably advocates a "natural" form of ascorbate. Anyways I am getting into it with him and I cant believe how he just uses words as proof. He does not have any prove for his claims. He even said ascorbic acid and natural c are the same molecule. I said "So you are admitting they are the same molecule?" and he wont respond!
I just dont know why these people like to try and convince me I'm going to die from ascorbic acid.
Here is some stuff he is posting to me oh an he claims I insulted him, I merely brought up the fact that he is a CEO of trace minerals inc so he has a biased opinion:

Robert Thompson You will deplete your C. No reason to believe ascorbic acid has any health benefit. It is an antibiotic, so what if it helps suppress bad bacteria, so do antibiotics, rest assured, it is not C, you will get leaky gut, you will get plaque and leaky arteries, you will degenerate your joints and connective tissue. There is no good in it. Please get the real thing and take Live Probiotics.

Robert Thompson Dear Katie, you can chose to believe what you want to. I am not in the convincing business. Ascorbic acid will always deplete C. It does not have the actions of the C molecule. This has been proven. Nevertheless, Dr. Driskol of the Univ of Kansas, who did the definitive work on the mechanisms of action of ascorbic acid, even referred to it incorrectly as vitamin C. Even when she determined it was a pro-oxidant, not an anti oxidant (which is what the C molecule is.) I tried to get her to take the next step and refer to it as ascorbic acid and not vitamin C, but she chose to continue the lie. So even those that know better, can choose to propagate the confusion. You are mistaken. Ascorbic acid is not C. It is the envelope of the molecule, the binding site. It's actions are the opposite of C. Ascorbic acid is a drug. It has affects, some can be good, temporarily, but it always depletes C from your body. Please read chapter 7 of the Calcium Lie 2, or "The Real Truth about vitamins and antioxidants" by Judith DeCava. These are not lies. I have done my homework. I have seen electron micrographs and 3-d pictures of the C molecule, the mineral ions it contains and their locations in the molecule, the factor locations known, the spectrophotometer pictures of the molecule, and more. Ascorbic acid is not the same, its picture is completely different, it is a small fraction of the actual molecule. Please do your study of these references, before you begin insulting me. Ascorbic acid is not a cure for anything, but is can have temporary benefit for some conditions which are still being determined, like drugs. It is an antibiotic like chemical, the shell of the C molecule. If you could prove any of your assertions about ascorbic acid benefits, I would be interested, but it will never be vitamin C. You are correct in that there is no difference between synthetic or "natural" ascorbic acid, it is the same molecule. That was my first argument, before I did my homework years ago when someone first called this to my attention. It is not vitamin C.

Robert Thompson Sorry. I do not swish to discuss this with you any more with out references.
14 hours ago · Like
Robert Thompson If I earn a profit from doing the right thing. I believe it is good. I strive to always do the right thing. Your insults are personal. Your opinions are yours alone. That does not make them fact. Please do your homework. I would be happy to review any references that contradict this information. I am not aware of any, except mistaken opinion. And believe me I have looked. It is very difficult to research this topic due to Google and everyone else calling ascorbic acid C. They do not differentiate this fact, so the literature is confusing. The chemistry is not confusing. Ascorbic acid will never be vitamin C.
My 5 year old Kota, "I know what vitamin c does, it hugs your heart."

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Re: ascorbic acid depletes ral vitamin c from the body?!

Post Number:#5  Post by Saw » Fri May 09, 2014 9:09 am

Nevertheless, Dr. Driskol of the Univ of Kansas, who did the definitive work on the mechanisms of action of ascorbic acid, even referred to it incorrectly as vitamin C. Even when she determined it was a pro-oxidant, not an anti oxidant (which is what the C molecule is.)

This guy is confusing IV with oral C.
The University of Kansas Cancer Center wrote:
Does oral vitamin C (ascorbate) provide the same results?
No. Oral vitamin C is an antioxidant with controlled absorption. Intravenous vitamin C is a pro-oxidant drug that helps produce hydrogen peroxide, which targets neoplastic cells while leaving normal cells unharmed. Because this form is delivered intravenously, plasma and tissue levels are many times above that of oral dosing. - See more at: http://www.kumed.com/medical-services/i ... gENi0.dpuf
Even a Blind Squirrel makes his own vitamin C.

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Re: ascorbic acid depletes ral vitamin c from the body?!

Post Number:#6  Post by davids1 » Fri May 09, 2014 10:25 am

Hi Katie,
FMW wrote:I just dont know why these people like to try and convince me I'm going to die from ascorbic acid.
I would say they "try" because to not do so would call into question their highly cherished beliefs.
FMW wrote:Robert Thompson You will deplete your C. No reason to believe ascorbic acid has any health benefit. It is an antibiotic, so what if it helps suppress bad bacteria, so do antibiotics, rest assured, it is not C, you will get leaky gut, you will get plaque and leaky arteries, you will degenerate your joints and connective tissue. There is no good in it.
It would be interesting to get his viewpoint on whether people that are on IV life-support, sometimes for years, are getting anything [for their vitamin C requirements] other than ascorbic acid/sodium [and/or another mineral] ascorbate in their nutritional fluid. It is my understanding they are not. If so, then why, if what he is saying is true, would they not be contracting scurvy?
FMW wrote:Robert Thompson Dear Katie....Ascorbic acid will always deplete C.
I wonder how he thinks I [for one] am not in serious health difficulties or dead [if his assertion is true], i.e. I [for one] should have "depleted" all of the "C" out of my body long ago? Again, "cherished" beliefs/theory(s) vs. real-world examples/results.]
FMW wrote:...ascorbic acid...as vitamin C. Even when she determined it was a pro-oxidant, not an anti oxidant (which is what the C molecule is.)
Talk about not understanding "chemistry," i.e. electrons, e.g. ascorbic acid vs. dehydroascorbate!
FMW wrote:The chemistry is not confusing. Ascorbic acid will never be vitamin C.
I wonder who [or what] he is using [as his "authority"] for what constitutes or defines "vitamin C." My understanding is that Szent-Györgyi, who won the Nobel Prize for the "discovery" of vitamin C, would disagree with him, per:
...Albert Szent-Györgyi discovered the chemical ascorbic acid—also known as vitamin C... http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/educa ... orgyi.html
I suspect, Katie, that Mr. Thompson has far too much at stake, both personally and professionally/economically, to ever accept the reality of the situation. However, kudos to you for making the effort!

Just my viewpoint and "two cents worth,"

David
Last edited by davids1 on Fri May 09, 2014 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JFYI, I have ingested a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid [via one gram tablets], in HEALTH, not illness [of which I have had virtually none], basically every day since 1994, amounting to [currently], on average, 75+ grams [daily], in 10 to 15 divided doses.

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Re: ascorbic acid depletes ral vitamin c from the body?!

Post Number:#7  Post by tjohnson_nb » Fri May 09, 2014 11:24 am

If large amounts of vitamin C are presented to cancer cells, large amounts will be absorbed. In these unusually large concentrations, the antioxidant vitamin C will start behaving as a pro-oxidant as it interacts with intracellular copper and iron. This chemical interaction produces small amounts of hydrogen peroxide.

Because cancer cells are relatively low in an intracellular anti-oxidant enzyme called catalase, the high dose vitamin C induction of peroxide will continue to build up until it eventually lyses the cancer cell from the inside out! This effectively makes high dose IVC a non-toxic chemotherapeutic agent that can be given in conjunction with conventional cancer treatments. Based on the work of several vitamin C pioneers before him, Dr. Riordan was able to prove that vitamin C was selectively toxic to cancer cells if given intravenously. This research was recently reproduced and published by Dr. Mark Levine at the National Institutes of Health.


http://orthomolecular.org/library/ivccancerpt.shtml
Sodium ascorbate's pro-oxidant effects are not a problem for normal cells because of the presence of sufficient catalase.
'Always' and 'never' are 2 words you should always remember never to use.

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Re: ascorbic acid depletes real vitamin c from the body?!

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Sat May 10, 2014 9:29 am

fisherman's wife. Keep up the good fight! I haven't gotten through everything but you are correct - and he is wrong. You have Linus Pauling on your side, which has always been a good thing.

Why not send him this (year-old article I was just steered to) http://www.medicine-outsidethebox.com/medicineoutsidethebox-8.htm
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: ascorbic acid depletes real vitamin c from the body?!

Post Number:#9  Post by FishermansWife » Sun May 11, 2014 6:01 am

Thank you for the information and link! I love a good debate but with ascorbic acid now a big part of my life it seems as though every time I turn around I have to defend it!
My 5 year old Kota, "I know what vitamin c does, it hugs your heart."


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