New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

[pounce]

In my second batch I'm noticing some separation...it looks like water on the bottom and lecithin above it. Presumably this is because my mixing temps may not have been high enough. Is this batch still usable? Is it fixable at this point or do I trash it?

What recipe and process are you using?

I'm sure its fine. No need to trash it.

[Kodiak]

I'm using the recipe posted here by Chris. In my first batch I dissolved everything in a pot on the stove and there wasn't any separation. My second batched was dissolved in an ultrasonic cleaner. It must not have been warm enough because the second batch has definite visual separation.

I'm hoping it's still usable, if not, I'm wondering if blending it again and putting it back through the cleaner would remedy the situation.

[pounce]

Yea, just blend it again. A few minutes on high. A little trick to remove air is to let it set a minute after blending and then gently pulse the blender. You don't want to create a vortex or pull air back in. You just want the blades to turn under the surface. That will bring air to the surface.

Run the ultrasonic cycle after.


What are you using for your lecithin?

[Kodiak]

Thanks for everyone's help. I've basically consumed that entire batch and am now brewing up another. I used Calcium Ascorbate lat time and Now brand, non-GMO Lecithin. I've switched over to Sodium Ascorbate so we'll see if that makes a difference.

[gtrkiwi]

Hi Chris, new to this forum and forums in general so here goes....
Tried your recipe and it's awesome thanks mate. Like most I had issue with the amount of lecithin needed. Held back 20% as suggested and it was still far too thick. I used sunflower lecithin which is a powder so this may have some bearing on this. Ending up simply adding water until the desired viscosity was achieved.
With regard to the process I was simply going to add my mixture straight in to the Chinese ultrasonic bath I purchased off alibaba. .....that is until I read something in this forum about stainless contamination of the irradiated content. Used a beaker as you did but the ultrasonic power was not so strong like this.
That brings me to my question .......is it true that stainless contamination of the lipo c can occur if you put the mixture straight into the machine and if so to what extent? Enough to be concerned about or not a problem?
Wouldn't mind some scientific feed back on this should you or anyone have an answer. Tried to google the subject but found nothing specific.
Cheers.

[gtrkiwi]

Just following on from my one and only post re stainless contamination of lipo c from an ultrasonic bath.......
No one seemed to have any answers so rather than run the risk I stuck some small round adhesive velcro dots to the bottom of my glass beaker and stuck it to the bottom of the ultrasound. Filled the ultrasound with water to cover the level of the mixture in the beaker. Worked awesome with plenty of ultrasonic activity though my lipo c brew.
Just further to that I have had to reduce the lecithin quantity to about 50% to achieve the right consistency of the mixture. I mentioned in my earlier post that I use sunflower lecithin which is a powder. I assume this still produces plenty of liposomes? Anybody got any advice or info here or should I be using soy lecithin?
Cheers,
Stephen.

[pounce]

I've used sunflower lecithin. Now brand.

My take on it after using it is... I don't like the flavor or the burps I get when I use it. I also don't think its important to avoid soy based lecithin after doing some reading on what actually makes soy based products potentially less healthful for a person. Also, I have not seen sunflower lecithin with concentrations of PC where you generally want it according to patents on liposomes and studies. Have you been able to find sunflower lecithin with 40% PC or higher?

Clever idea with the velcro tabs.

Unless you know and trust the actual type of stainless in a product I wouldn't risk contact especially for what we are doing here. Why take any risk?

Consider the impact of reduction of lecithin by 50%. That's also 50% less PC. Without testing in a lab it would be hard to tell what the impact would be on decreasing PC without also decreasing C. My guess is that logically you might result in a mixture that had more free C. That would not be the end of the world obviously. You would still be getting C if you consumed it.

Have you used commercial brands of lipo C? They tend to be pretty thick. You can also see in the patents that a gel is actually added to the product at the end of the process to make it thicker. I am not sure of the real reason for this other for dosing?

I've considered altering my process to add lecithin in stages to a C and Water mixture. The thought is that I might get better liposome creation when there is a high concentration of C with a lower viscosity. That should make sonication more efficient. The other approach would be to reduce the volume of product in a vessel during sonication.

[dazed1]

Hu guys, sorry if this has been discussed before.

Im in a low budget, and i want to use 50W 50$ Chinese 1L Ultrasonic cleaner.

How much of an negative impact would this cause, regarding creating liposmes compared to the ones from 200$ and even higer priced?

Maybe i should juse use high quality blender instead or the low end cleaner will still help noticably? especially im worried since i need to repeat the process several times, if i let the cleaner, and the blender cool of, doesn't the ascorbic acid oxidize very fast, and as a result i get vitamin c lose even before storage?

How does one control the temperature of the solution during,

a) blending
b) ultrasonic cleaner process


Can i use regular ascorbic acid but with citrus bio-flavonoids instead of regular? it has dark-brown color, and some un-or hard to dissolve particles which i think are the bioflavonoids them self, would they make any difference?

Should i use 90% + alcohol vs 70% lets say? is this the drug store regular alcohol or what type i need to use?

Thanks in advance!

[pounce]

If you use an inexpensive blender and ultrasonic machine you will probably have less issues with heat being generated. Control heat by taking the temp. Stop and cool when you don't want to get warmer. Thermometer.

You have to realize that without testing in a lab none of us will know whether your method with the equipment you select will result in the target product. That said there will still be vitamin C in what you make.

Follow the recipes for the alcohol. Make sure its alcohol you can safely drink and not poison. An easy way to make sure is to buy it at a liquor store and not a pharmacy.

It does not matter really if you are using a high or low percentage of alcohol as long as you end up with the correct ratios.

If you are trying to treat something and you want true liposomes buy them. If you are comfortable with experimentation and risk of producing a product that might not actually be great liposomal C then proceed.

I'd recommend you use good pure C and not some other mix.

[DrCheng]

I am new to this forum and lipo C but I am aware of Pauling's High C over 20 years ago. Being a physician and got interested in anti-aging medicine and recently certified by the American Academy of Anti-Aging & Regenerative Medicine, I have come into contact with Dr. Tom Levy, a well respected physician in Anti Aging medicine. After reading his Death by Calcium, I re-discovered Vic C and am interested in incorporating Lipo-C into my own cocktail.

I agree with Pounce's post earlier of a fund raising effort for all of us to chip in to have some lab tests done to verify the amount of actual lipo being made. Although, convincing, seeing fat globules in a solution (as the one shown on Chris's web) is not direct evidence of liposome encapsulating C. I am not an expert on making lipo. But I wonder how micelles look like under a microscope. I suppose we ask Chris to send in a batch of his own make and we all chip in for the money of testing (how much does it cost anyways?), it'll put all out minds at ease. (One of the posts indicated bowel tolerance of 20 gm of "Lipo" C made in this fashion compared to 8-10 gm of regular C. That's a good proof of clinical effectiveness).

Regardless of the outcome, I am getting ready to buy a ultrasound machine (Kendal Industrial Grade 165 Watts 2.5 Liters Digital Heated Ultrasonic Cleaner with Degas Function, on Amazon) and get started.

Richard C, MD

[pounce]

Richard, We can certainly look into the costs. I'd imagine its in the hundreds depending on number of samples. I'd be interested in sending a number of samples myself with a range of process variances. The objective for me would be to determine the process with the least effort of complexity with the highest rate of liposome creation. For instance, If an ultrasonic machine for sonication didn't make a difference then that would certainly be good to know.

Also, there are so many variances in consumer lecithin etc that I think testing ones own methods makes more sense. If a handful of people grouped up for this testing experiment we might be able to get a deal on the testing and then we can share the results as a group. I personally would find it very interesting if there were 3-5 different people each testing a few samples.

I haven't tried the private message feature of this forum, but feel free to reach out if you are serious and don't mind spending a little money on the project.

[DrCheng]

Acutally, I am not sure if really want pure liposomal C. The reason is simple: we want some degree of C flush regularly to clean out our gut. I have seen several Youtube videos describing a method almost too easy to be true, compared with the one we are talking about here: simply melt, mix C and lecithin and then ultrasonicate it. It's that simple. They claimed a 70% efficiency. Seventy percent is very good, it'll leave 30% in free form for C flush.

[pounce]

I don't disagree with you.

At the same time I would not be apposed to knowing I can create a higher percentage and simply add more non lipo C to the dosage.

I read the patents. Doesn't seem difficult. It also might not be that difficult to have a method that is similar, but different enough to not be covered by the patent.

[DrCheng]

Let me report something interesting: I watched a video online using a super simple method, simply mixing 2cios of C in 250 ml warm water and 30 ml lecithin in 500 ml water. Then blend the two before sonicating for 4 min. I thought it's worth trying. The fruits batch I made 30 gm of C and I drank probably 40% of it (>10gm of C). My wife drank around 10gm. Normally this will cause watery diarrhea for both of us (I have been making veggie smooth with C and other supplants for a while). But we didn't have any issue. Today I tried again, still no problem. I think I'm crating sufficient amount of Lipo C now.

Next I'm interested in making others like lipo quercetin, lipo CoQ10 for skin care products. Has anyone tried these?

[DrCheng]

Ignore the previous one due to typos.
Let me report something interesting: I watched a video online using a super simple method, simply mixing 2 cups of C in 250 ml warm water and 30 ml lecithin in 500 ml water. Then blend the two before sonicating for 4 min. I thought it's worth trying. The first batch I made 30 gm of C and I drank probably 40% of it (>10gm of C). My wife drank around 10gm. Normally this will cause watery diarrhea for both of us (I have been making veggie smoothie with C and other supplements for a while). But we didn't have any issue. Today I tried again, still no problem. I think I'm creating sufficient amount of Lipo C now.

Next I'm interested in making others like lipo quercetin, lipo CoQ10 for skin care products. Has anyone tried these?