New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Discussion of the benefits and disadvantages of commercial and homemade (DIY) liposomal vitamin C

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skwoodwiva
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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#151  Post by skwoodwiva » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:42 am

ChristopheG wrote:...


That is a Great proposal, ChristopheG.
Might you want add a base line in there too, using a standardized lipo like LivOn or the like?

all for now...

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#152  Post by skwoodwiva » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:30 am

gtrkiwi wrote:....

Being an HVAC serviceman, I advise caution using an IR meter on liquid. The emissivity of the surface is key, I think. I use a Cooper probe.
Or you may have double checked with a probe? Newer IRs may have improved, Mine is years old.
Last edited by skwoodwiva on Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#153  Post by skwoodwiva » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:41 am

norma67 wrote:I have tried to attach some photos, but I didn't succeed, or I haven't understood the procedure explained here in the forum.
How is it done?

It is tough, I presume.
I take a pic on my android, up it to Mega (app, you must create an account) then copy the link with key. Just paste the link to your post as I did above.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#154  Post by skwoodwiva » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:56 am

Success!
I made an acceptable batch. I do not have any litmus left, but it tastes near to neutral.
I nixed the blender. N2 is still on hand as needed.
I tried Norma's recipe several times and I would see it trying to gel but always went flat and SOUR!!

I modified Norma's recipe:
30 g Now soya L
40 g Rum 40%
70 g Water
soaked 4 hr
raised to 49*C for ~ 10 min

2nd step
20 g Vit C (cassava based, I am an O! I never realized how bad corn based (LivOn) made me feel until now. I know that type A people do tolerate corn)
50 g water
Kept at 36*C but only ~ 2 min prior to,
pulling step 1 @45*C and dribbling step 2 into 1, stiring & etc, in a very chilly kitchen.
It gelled up nicely. I stored in fridg (HVACR guys have cold (35* F) fridg's). Then went shopping for the sonicator. I found a Harbor Freight 35 W baby. It needed lots of modding to work right.

The short 3 min duty cycle needed fixing: wimpy heat sinks, trashing the body, shorting the relay so the power plug is my power switch, among other things...(PM me for NON UL Mods). It works now for hours straight.
It went in the sonicator pan, naked, like some fab pudding all shiny.
So after blasting it for 45 min (in my fridg) the pudding went flat! It never went over 25*C, incl stiring.
It still had some body and the Ph did not change.

For dosing I just add all masses and divide by 20. I have a $20 250g 10mg resolution scale I bought at a Pot shop.

Edit,
If I never cool the batch the PH rises and thickens in 24 hrs.
If I keep it at 35* F it drops and thins out.

Thanks to Everybody and especially Norma

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#155  Post by Cdizzle » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:40 pm

thanks for the write-up!
So I'm assuming you store the mixture at room temperature? Does it spoil after a week or two?

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#156  Post by skwoodwiva » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:30 pm

Cdizzle wrote:thanks for the write-up!
So I'm assuming you store the mixture at room temperature? Does it spoil after a week or two?

I have just this week got to a consistent dosingng of about 12 grams a day, so about 3+ days for a double batch.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#157  Post by karusel » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:44 am

Hi, long time Vitamin C fan, first time poster. :) Last year or so, I've found Chris's recipe, bought all the equipment (80W Ulsonix Proclean 2.0DS ) and I've found that handheld mixer creates the least amount of bubbles in the liposome mix. Due to firm insisting of my girlfriend that she won't ingest anything with alcohol in it, and also because of considerations about the possibility of liposomes encapsulating the alcohol, delivering it straight to the cells - she found the whole idea unappealing even for my use. I'm curious of what you guys think about that, isn't alcohol inherently bad, and counter productive when it comes to boosting up your health with ascorbic acid?

Now, I've read a very interesting post in this thread, and I didn't notice anyone commenting on it so I'm going to quote it. I also have some questions for Johnwen: could you please specify the exact amounts of substances used, time required for certain stages, and the min/max temperature throughout the process? Also, does it matter what purity the ethanol is? I currently have 70%, but could get a 96% within a month, but my hands are itching to try your suggestion - so you say mix ethanol with lecithin which creates liposomes, but there's 30% of water in the solution, will all the lecithin be liposom... lipoliz.. .made to liposomes and when you dry out the alcohol, won't there be some water left in the paste?

This is a lenghty process and I'd very much like to avoid finding trial and error learning as much as possible.

Johnwen wrote:OMG !!! Is all I can say from what I’m reading in these posts.
Drinking per se Liposome / Vodka cocktails first thing in the morning I don’t think and know that this isn’t going to give any benefits!
So I thought, what’s the fastest and most efficient method I could convey to this group of DIY’ers.
Right now there’s about 25 different methods of encapsulation that are in use and I opted to show the simplest which can yield up to 90% encapsulation. However it only yields SUV’s but for this purpose should suffice. It’ll also give sobering results!!

If you have studied lipids you know that the head turn to liquid and the tail stays away from it. So the head is hydrophilic and the tail is hydrophobic.
However it has been found that this also applies to certain solvents also and when this reaction occurs theses lipid’s also cluster together to form a liposome or a sphere of individual lipids. Ethanol is a solvent that this occurs in so it is readily available in most states as pure grain alcohol or 180 proof white lighting. In commercial production various other forms of this product are used but require refined purification methods are needed to remove the byproducts.

In the following I’m going to outline how this process works!
I’m leaving out the details of quantity because there are so many variables that only experimentation of amounts would be a individual preference!

In the first step were going to institute this reaction.
We take a beaker and add the ethanol to it, then take a slightly smaller amount of lipids and blend the two together gently. This forms the liposome’s. Wait at least 10 minutes to allow for this reaction!

DO THIS OUTSIDE ANY STRUCTURE IN OPEN AIR!!
Next is evaporation Ethanol has a flash point of 61.9* F so it don’t take much heat to get it to disappear without damage to the liposome’s. As you can imagine the flash of water is @ 212*F and at that temp. your cooking the liposome’s. I would say that water at 100*F in the tray should give rapid results in evaporation. Once again remember your working with a flammable liquid here and it’s vaporized making it more flammable. Once the ethanol has disappeared and the liposome’s are dry. Remove the beaker and let it cool to ambient temperature.

Now mix your Ascorbic acid and water you want a mix that is just above a paste. So Put you AA in first then add water and stir till it’s a moveable liquid. Keep a little bit of the AA mix here!
Now add this to the Dry Lipo’s. and gently agitate to get it to blend together. Don’t shake or stir just a gentle movement.

Now get out the ultrasound this method depends on the power of your unit! If it’s High power you can keep it in the beaker and zap it in surrounding water.
Low power, pour mix into unit and add the left over AA mix as a rinse for the beaker.
Zap it till mix looks blended if not keep zapping till it looks mixed.

You now have Lipo-C but to get out the residuals for the highest encapsulation it should be filtered. The best way is a gentle centrifuge. However your talking $$!! Or you could just set it a side for awhile and let the good stuff settle to the bottom and pour off the residual which is AA and water and blank liposome’s! So it’s drinkable!! The muddy stuff on the bottom is what it’s all about! That’s your Liposome AA!!

Hope this helps with your health and sobriety!!!


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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#158  Post by efalconi » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:33 am

Hi guys,

When you are already sonicating the lipo c, is it okay to submerge only half
of the beaker or do we have to fully submerge up to the level of the solution
on the beaker? I ask this because the big and deeper sonicator is a bit expensive.

Best,

Edwin

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#159  Post by karusel » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:55 am

It's okay to do that but understand that there will be less of the sonicating effect. Larger sonicator usually means higher ultrasonic power, I feel that mine with 2l capacity and 80W power is just strong enough. So I suggest you don't go lower than that. You could use the sonicator's container to irradiate the mixture to a greater effect than if you have it in a beaker sitting in a water bath, but I'm pretty sure there would be contamination from the metal of the container.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#160  Post by efalconi » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:26 am

karusel wrote:It's okay to do that but understand that there will be less of the sonicating effect. Larger sonicator usually means higher ultrasonic power, I feel that mine with 2l capacity and 80W power is just strong enough. So I suggest you don't go lower than that. You could use the sonicator's container to irradiate the mixture to a greater effect than if you have it in a beaker sitting in a water bath, but I'm pretty sure there would be contamination from the metal of the container.


Thanks for the reply karusel. I'll keep that in mind. BTW. What sonicator are you using for your set up?

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#161  Post by OxC » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:52 am

A guy on a Facebook discussion group has been doing some interesting lab tests. He claims to have measured encapsulation efficiency and particle sizing of this "Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C."
Douglas Q. Kitt, founder of ReCverin LLC, sellers of stabilized dehydroascorbic acid solutions.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#162  Post by karusel » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:35 am

^^^^^^Thank you for this!!

efalconi: Ulsonix Proclean 2.0DS

Presently, I am struggling to find studies to confirm any easy method for producing liposomes. My findings are that there are several different procedures, using various solvents with mixed results, some have higher and some have lower yields of encapsulation, it appears that using ethanol as a solvent and hydrophilic solution of the drug to be encapsulated does not produce high encapsulation rate. I am not very optimistic at this point.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#163  Post by norma67 » Tue May 09, 2017 8:15 pm

OxC wrote:A guy on a Facebook discussion group has been doing some interesting lab tests. He claims to have measured encapsulation efficiency and particle sizing of this "Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C."


For who doesn't use FB, could some one be so kind to refer the results here? thanks


skwoodwiva wrote:Success!
I made an acceptable batch. I do not have any litmus left, but it tastes near to neutral.
I nixed the blender. N2 is still on hand as needed.
I tried Norma's recipe several times and I would see it trying to gel but always went flat and SOUR!!

I modified Norma's recipe:
30 g Now soya L
40 g Rum 40%
70 g Water
soaked 4 hr
raised to 49*C for ~ 10 min

2nd step
20 g Vit C (cassava based, I am an O! I never realized how bad corn based (LivOn) made me feel until now. I know that type A people do tolerate corn)
50 g water
Kept at 36*C but only ~ 2 min prior to,
pulling step 1 @45*C and dribbling step 2 into 1, stiring & etc, in a very chilly kitchen.
It gelled up nicely. I stored in fridg (HVACR guys have cold (35* F) fridg's). Then went shopping for the sonicator. I found a Harbor Freight 35 W baby. It needed lots of modding to work right.

The short 3 min duty cycle needed fixing: wimpy heat sinks, trashing the body, shorting the relay so the power plug is my power switch, among other things...(PM me for NON UL Mods). It works now for hours straight.
It went in the sonicator pan, naked, like some fab pudding all shiny.
So after blasting it for 45 min (in my fridg) the pudding went flat! It never went over 25*C, incl stiring.
It still had some body and the Ph did not change.

For dosing I just add all masses and divide by 20. I have a $20 250g 10mg resolution scale I bought at a Pot shop.

Edit,
If I never cool the batch the PH rises and thickens in 24 hrs.
If I keep it at 35* F it drops and thins out.

Thanks to Everybody and especially Norma


As I mentioned in some of my earlier posts, the recipe can vary due to different lecithin, alcohol grade, so I am glad you have found the solution that fits your ingredients and it is useful for you.


I had a private message asking for informations regarding the transition temperature, and since I think this could be useful to others, I will reply here in the topic.

The transition temperature is the moment of the transformation of the lecithin from the liquid state (liquid crystals) to the solid state or gel (liposomes).
The temprature can vary from the composition of the lechitin and the lipids added, so the first time I heated the lechitin compound, I tested the melting point of the one I have used.
Since the C vitamin is sensible to heating, I have indicated a temperature just above the the limit.
The lecithin compound can be heated to a higher temperature and then cooled down to about 42-45 °C, before adding the C vitamin ( in a way to protect it ) and then stirring until it forms the liposomes.

“Formation of liposomes is only possible, if the temperature of the sample is above the transition temperature. According to [2], the transition temperature of liposomes consisting of pure lipids is 41.4 °C, whereas lipids from natural origin such as lecithin containing fatty acid mixtures exhibit a broad transition range [3]. The upper limit for liposome formation is the Krafft point of lecithin, which is at a temperature of 58 °C [4]. Therefore the temperature range between 41.4 °C and 58.”
ref.: http://www.pharmtech.tu-bs.de/files/muegoy/MMuellerHalle0110.pdf

searching on google there are many other researches regarding the transition temperature of the liposomes.

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#164  Post by bryan2 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:34 pm

I'm new to all this and to this discussion but wonder if anyone can comment on this process - it doesn't mention any alcohol or solvent and appears simple to accomplish. my apologies if I'm late in the discussion and knowledge and if it's obvious I should do more research I would appreciate any references. thanks...

http://www.ccphchicago.com/articles/Mak ... amin_C.pdf

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Re: New Method for Very High Potency Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#165  Post by quintessential5 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:52 pm

Sorry, it's a long thread; haven't read all of it, so maybe this has already been addressed. I noticed that the OP's recipe and dosing is such that, if my calculations are right, he's getting about 14.7 g of lecithin per day. Isn't that a lot? Or did I miscalculate somehow? Discussions of lecithin dosing that I've read have indicated a max dose of about 3 g. Could it be that 3 g is maybe the point of maximum benefit but more than that isn't a bad thing? Choline provides a caffeine-like kick for me, so I know I couldn't start with something like 14.7 g of lecithin right off the bat, but maybe I could work up to it. Just not sure about safety.

Thanks!


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