Measurement of the % Encapsulation of Liposomal Vitamin C

Discussion of the benefits and disadvantages of commercial and homemade (DIY) liposomal vitamin C

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Akimbot
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Measurement of the % Encapsulation of Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#1  Post by Akimbot » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:55 am

Newbie here with first post.
Curious to know if anyone has used PH Alkaline Acid Test Paper (Litmus Strips) to test the percentage of encapsulation of the ascorbic acid. I am trying to perfect a process for making this stuff and establishing a repeatable method of measuring the % encapsulation. Many variables to control such as time for ultrasonic, temp of the bath, % of lecithin versus ascorbic acid, etc, etc...I used the baking soda test and it didn't produce very good (repeatable) results.
Thanks in advance,
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Re: Measurement of the % Encapsulation of Liposomal Vitamin

Post Number:#2  Post by Akimbot » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:09 am

I am surprised that after three months, no one has posted any suggestions on a method for determining the amount of encapsulation the DIY liposomal vitamin C maker is obtaining.

I see where Dr. Levy has commented on his website about the DIY maker's inability to produce liposomes: "All I can say is that the simple ultrasonic treatment of lecithin and vitamin C does not make liposomes. I have reviewed the sophisticated testing of two different such preparations. Both of them: zero liposomes."

I am not disputing Dr. Levy's statement. I have the utmost respect for him and his opinions. My question is that because there is so much conflicting reports from the DIY successes, I question the method used to produce the LET that Dr. Levy points to and performed his subsequent testing on. One such method was detailed here within The Vitamin C Foundation's page: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11293

With all of the knowledgeable folks on this site, again I ask; is there some reasonably simple and inexpensive method to quantify the amount of encapsulation the DIY process is obtaining?
Necessity is the mother of taking chances.
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Re: Measurement of the % Encapsulation of Liposomal Vitamin

Post Number:#3  Post by OxC » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:30 pm

Akimbot wrote:I am surprised that after three months, no one has posted any suggestions on a method for determining the amount of encapsulation the DIY liposomal vitamin C maker is obtaining.

I see where Dr. Levy has commented on his website about the DIY maker's inability to produce liposomes: "All I can say is that the simple ultrasonic treatment of lecithin and vitamin C does not make liposomes. I have reviewed the sophisticated testing of two different such preparations. Both of them: zero liposomes."

Hi Akimbot,
I wonder if you have considered writing to Dr. Levy and asking him to describe the "sophisticated testing" method that he has reviewed. I'm sure many would be interested in knowing how this is done professionally, even if it didn't lead to ideas for developing a way that it can be done simply at home.

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Re: Measurement of the % Encapsulation of Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#4  Post by Akimbot » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:34 am

My understanding is that Dr Levy is frequently on this site and was hoping for a reply. Based upon your suggestion, I will write him and ask if he would kindly respond.

I would suspect is that the production and the analysis work was conducted by the folks at Livon Lab. Not meant to be a negative. My question was based on the observation that there are many well meaning folks out there posting LET instructions. However, you can easily find suggestions such as, "Use hot water to mix the vitamin C so it will dissolve faster" type of instructions. Not that hot water would make a difference in the percentage of encapsulation, but it will degrade the ascorbate. I have to admit, I am curious to know what process was used to make the LET that lead doctor Levy to make this statement.

I have developed a process that makes intuitive sense to me but I want to quantify it without taking out a second mortgage on my house. I posted my original question back on December 16, 2014. My wife read Levy's statement about a month ago, which made me think of Chris' posting; http://www.qualityliposomalc.com/. This prompted my recent re-posting to the folks on this forum for a suggested method to determine the percent of encapsulation.
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Re: Measurement of the % Encapsulation of Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#5  Post by Akimbot » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:17 pm

Update. I wrote Dr. Levy and he responded with the following:

I have no idea if pH testing a purported liposome preparation would be a reliable measure of the percent liposome encapsulation. And if it were, I have no idea what the scientific reasoning behind that would be.

For what it's worth, LivOn would be ecstatic if making quality, properly-sized and concentrated liposomes was as easy as the quick ultrasonic treatment of ascorbate and an unpurified lecithin formulation. Then their profit margin would be several-fold higher than the current minimal margin, at least by traditional "supplement" standards. And while it may be on the pricey side for regular supplementation, I know of nothing else available for $30 or so that can effectively substitute for $500 or more of IVC for a severe viral syndrome much of the time.
Necessity is the mother of taking chances.
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Re: Measurement of the % Encapsulation of Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#6  Post by Elpaggio » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:14 pm

I would wish there was a simple way to get a reasonable indication of the quality (amount of encapsulation) one has reached in a given process.

If the PH value can be used as an indication of quality things would be really simple:

Mix everything (lechitin solution with ascorbic acid solution) in the precisely measured quantities used in your particular process (but do not blend or sonificate) and measure the PH value. You will now have a PH reference value that you can compare with the resulting PH value of a full blown process done with the same ingredients and measurements.

Any skilled chemist (unfortunately I'm not one) should be able to calculate the amount of ascorbic acid that has been encapsulated.
So back to the fundamental question - can PH be used as a reliable indicator for quality of liposomal vitamin c?

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Re: Measurement of the % Encapsulation of Liposomal Vitamin C

Post Number:#7  Post by barnsie » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:24 am

What about litmus testing the Liv on Labs product compared to vitamin c dissolved in water to see if there is a difference. If there is a difference then test your stuff and see where you are in comparison to the other two.


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