Testing homemade liposomal C encapsulation efficiency

Discussion of the benefits and disadvantages of commercial and homemade (DIY) liposomal vitamin C

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stefan
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Testing homemade liposomal C encapsulation efficiency

Post Number:#1  Post by stefan » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:15 pm

Here is my experience with the home made liposomal C - making and testing:

I made a first batch of liposomal C using the Brooks Bradley method. I used the iSonic P4810 ultrasonic cleaner. I didn't make the encapsulation in the cleaner directly, but in a 500ml beaker which can be inserted in the machine using the iSonic beaker holder (so that the beaker does not touch the bottom of the cleaning recipient). I ran the cleaner for 30 mins, stirring occasionaly. By the end of the cleaning process, most of the foam had disappeared.

Next, I tested the result using te Brooks Bradley test. And here is where I need some help/guidance:
I put 4 oz of the resulting vit C solution into a 12 oz beaker.
I mixed 1 oz water with 1/4 tea spoon sodium bicarbonate.
I poured the mixture over the vit C solution. The BB method says: " at this point, measure the height of the resulting foam" and gives you a scale to compare with and determine the aprox degree of liposomal encapsulation.

But here is what happened at this point: in about 0.5 seconds a huge foam formed, up to the top of the 12 oz beaker. And in the next 5 seconds the foam receded down to about 1/10", where it stabilised.

So, now the question is -> which foam height is relevant for this test: the initial foam of over 2" in the first second or the final foam of about 0.1" after 5 seconds.

Any thoughts or similar experiences greatly appreciated if anyone has tried this BB test. Or any other method to measure the results and remove the confusion introduced by this unexpcted dynamic of the foam height in te BB method. I have also tried to look on youtube for similar tests in real time but could not find any.

OxC
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Re: Testing homemade liposomal C encapsulation efficiency

Post Number:#2  Post by OxC » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:38 pm

Here is what Brooks Bradley had to say about his "foam test" when others like you reported difficulty interpreting the test:
http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list%40eskimo.com/msg124370.html
Douglas Q. Kitt, founder of ReCverin LLC, sellers of stabilized dehydroascorbic acid solutions.

stefan
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Re: Testing homemade liposomal C encapsulation efficiency

Post Number:#3  Post by stefan » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:33 pm

I see. Thank you!

Jet Kelley
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Re: Testing homemade liposomal C encapsulation efficiency

Post Number:#4  Post by Jet Kelley » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:48 pm

Re: stefan's post of june 07/16.
Amazing that your test had my results also.My first effort was about 1 year ago following B.B. formula of only using 1 gram of "C" per 1 oz of water. This time I followed Chris's formula with water & 40% vodka. Much more "C" per oz. of mixed fluid. It came out to a ratio of 7.59 times the amount of "C" per
fluid oz. of B.B. mix. It made me wonder if it was the reason for the overflow of foam. My result last time with B.B. was just a trace of foam. I hope that a chemist somewhere can enlighten us both.- Jet K.

stefan
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Re: Testing homemade liposomal C encapsulation efficiency

Post Number:#5  Post by stefan » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:37 pm

I am now at the 3rd production and I tried to improve the encapsulation method in each batch.

The first try was described above.
For the second, I've first mixed the lecithin and water and put them in the fridge for about 4 hours. With the intention to let is absorb water and dissolve well first. Only after that I did the rest of the mixing and the ultrasonic procedure. I did extend the US time to 35 mins.

For this last production, I did mix water with alcohol and lecithine first and let it soak in the fridge for over 8 hours. I understand that the alcohol emulsifies lecithin and the time in the fridge makes it dissolve and create the necessary particles for liposomal encapsulation. I used aprox 6.5 oz of water and 1.5 oz (one shot glass) of vodka (40% alcohol). This results in a total alcohol percentage of the finished product of (0.4 x 1.5)/(8 + 2) = 6%. I seem to remeber in Chris formula he mentioned 12% alcohol, so I just wanted to try half that first. And I used 1.5 table spoon of ascorbic acid in the 2 oz of water to mix with. And ran it in the ultrasonic machine for 45 mins.

Now, to test the encapsulation efficiency, I decided the best I could do, absent an electronic microscope, was to go by taste. How much of the bitter-sour taste of the AA can you taste from one batch to the other? This is becasue you will taste the unencapsutaed AA only, and won't be able to taste the AA inside the liposomes, which is not available to your taste buds and will be absorbe dinthe intestine as fatty acids. So, the less you fell it sour, the better.

And, based on this measure, apparently I made good progress. The sour taste was less and less present with each succesive batch. The production with alcohol I made last, in addition of having the least sour taste also has a smoother, rounder finish. Well, I am not exactly describing Chateau Lafite tasting here, but I can use this analog to grade the production. And I am curious if you can say a similar thing about your liposomal C results.

Jet Kelley
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Re: Testing homemade liposomal C encapsulation efficiency

Post Number:#6  Post by Jet Kelley » Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:45 am

Thanks for that last (3rd) attempt. The taste test sounds good to me.

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Re: Testing homemade liposomal C encapsulation efficiency

Post Number:#7  Post by Jet Kelley » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:37 am

Re: Stefan's 3rd mix.
The only big difference in my process compared to yours and Chris's is that I US for a total of 2 hours. It is quite bitter but I take 60 ml. daily until finished and follow your method for my next batch. In my desire to get a professional opinion on lipo percentage I went this AM and spoke to a chap at our local "Atlantic Cancer Research Center". To get an electron microscope test done he guessed it might cost $500.- $600. Has any similar testing been done on Chris's method as I am not going to jump in too quickly at that cost?

stefan
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Re: Testing homemade liposomal C encapsulation efficiency

Post Number:#8  Post by stefan » Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:03 pm

Let me be more precise on my latest batch (the 4th):

I mix 7oz of water (Britta filtered) with 1 oz of vodka (40% alcohol). This makes a total of one cup of liquid.
I add to this 3 tablespoons of sunflower lecithin and blend it in my blender for about 3 mins.
I leave the mixture in the fridge overnight.

Next day I take the mixture out and bring it to about room temperature or a bit more by inserting the blending recipient into a larger recipient with hot water.
Next, I mix 1.5 tablespoons of vitamin C (AA) with 0.5 cup of filtered water in a mason jar and shake it until it disolves completely.
I slowly pour this over the lecithin mixture while mixing it.

The last step is to put everytnting in the US machine and sonify for about 45 mins.

I take 2 oz a day, one in the morning, one in the evening. The taste is a bit sour, but you can feel the lecithin taste mostly at the end.

rich75
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Re: Testing homemade liposomal C encapsulation efficiency

Post Number:#9  Post by rich75 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:52 pm

Just wondering if you had any more to report since your last message? Like have you notice any changes good or bad in your body since taking
your Homemade LC? I really want to Thank You for keeping everyone like myself informed on your progress in making this Homemade LC.

Rich

stefan
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Re: Testing homemade liposomal C encapsulation efficiency

Post Number:#10  Post by stefan » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:36 pm

Thank you for your interest and for following my progress with LC. It is hard for me to notice a difference for the better, because, in my case, vitamin C is just one piece of the system I have put in place for fighting premature aging, staying healthy and physically fit. The key pieces of the system are a low carb, ketogenic diet, intermittent fasting and weight lifting. In addition, I take a number of supplements, including liposomal C, vitamin D, vitamin K2, curcumin, mini-aspirin, omega-3, probiotic, magnesium and a catch all multivitamin. So, with all these elements (diet, workout and supplements) put carefully together, I am feeling great, been in top physical shape for a number of years since designing and following the system and didn't notice any worsening when I transitioned from a commercial liposomal vitamin C (the excellent lypo-spheric product) to my homemade LC. And, as I mentioned above, the only pointers I had to go by in order to judge the quality of my production were taste (not quite so sour and a bit towards lecithin) and a lack of intestinal effects. Byt these 2 indicators, I think I achieved a reasonable level of encapsulation, so it was worth bringing the manufacturing recipe to your attention.


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