Purchasing and using an ultrasonic cleaner for liposomal vitamin C?

Discussion of the benefits and disadvantages of commercial and homemade (DIY) liposomal vitamin C

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joe
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Purchasing and using an ultrasonic cleaner for liposomal vitamin C?

Post Number:#1  Post by joe » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:17 am

I would appreciate some advice on getting an ultrasonic cleaner to make liposomal vitamin C. I am thinking of things like how much is needed for watts compared to the volume of liquid; what frequencies are optimal for making the liposomes?

When using a beaker in the ultrasonic bath what level of water would be good for the cleaner and for the beaker; One article I read said to leave the level of water in the cleaner about 2" because the ultrasonic frequency would be stronger. Does the beaker of liposomal mixture need to be filled to the top?

Would appreciate some referals to machines. Need something ecnonomical, but decent. Can I find something $100 to $150?



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Re: Purchasing and using an ultrasonic cleaner for liposomal vitamin C?

Post Number:#2  Post by BrightSideOfLife » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:24 pm

There are a lot of unanswered questions on making liposomal vit c unfortunately. I failed to get any response about ultrasonic cleaners on this forum.

If you look at the ultra sonic cleaner that qualityliposomalc uses (Elmasonic p60h) on his website, there is a thread in this forum detailing how he does it. However that is way too expensive for my pocket, it's nice but there are more powerful ultrasonic cleaners for a much lower price such as the James 6MX which is itself quite expensive but a lot more powerful at 240 watts compared with 150 watts. Many 6 litre ultrasonic cleaners are around the 180 watts mark but using anything inside the tank will absorb quite a bit of the ultrasonic energy so having plenty in reserve should give the best results. Smaller tanks will have lower ultrasonic power and will require adjustments to be made in how it is produced. Using a containment vessel might be too much for lower power devices. Some people using cheaper devices prepare the lipo c in the tank. Not ideal IMO as it could cause contamination from the tank which is often 304 SS.

I came up with two likely candidates. One was a product which did have a name which I am sure was called GT Sonic but it seems that has since been changed to SonicTek. GT Sonic does still exist but they do not manufacturer the model that I was interested in. The model I liked has a 6 litre tank,, 150 watts ultrasonic power, 300 watt heater, 3 x 40KHz transducers, degass, soft mode, digital temperature control and time to 99 mins. The one I first saw was had a blue surround around the buttons but the new model now has a black surround. The price of that is about £170 so is more than you wanted to pay. The other one is James 6MX, another 6 litre cleaner with 240 watts of ultrasonic power. Adjustable power, degass, 37KHz, pulse & sweep, heater. A very powerful cleaner but a jaw dropping £470. A lot less than the elmasonic and more powerful but without the multi frequencies.

For the money that you intend paying, I don't think that you will have much choice in regard to frequencies. They are usually around 37kHz to 42kHz, multi frequency devices are a lot more expensive.

Degass might be helpful and worth looking for.

I think you will have to consider how you intend making it, if using a vessel then more power will probably be needed. The size of the vessel especially the height, will also narrow down the choices. Extra features such as degass will also narrow things down.

I posted to the thread started by qualityliposomalc but got no feedback.

[EDITED] The 6 litre SonicTek sold on eBay.co.uk and ships from Belgium quotes the ultrasonic power as being 180 watts with 3 transducers which would mean 3x60watts. However on further investigation it turns out these ultrasonic cleaners use 50 watt transducers which would mean a total ultrasonic power of only 150 watts which is quite a bit lower than 180 watts. Which makes the James 6MX considerably better and it does have variable power too.
Last edited by BrightSideOfLife on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Purchasing and using an ultrasonic cleaner for liposomal vitamin C?

Post Number:#3  Post by joe » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:49 pm

I was hoping for something cheaper. I might have to look for something used. I have read http://qualityliposomalc.com. I have also looked at the method used by Books Bradley:
http://www.racehorseherbal.com/Infections/LET/let.html
I think it is similar except for the alcohol. I think they both use soy lecithin. I prefer to use sunflower. Would this change the process? Brooks Bradley uses a small ultrasonic cleaner for the lipomal mix. Would this not work or not make the liposomes small enough?

I also thought of using a shorter beaker for the vessel in the cleaner. Would this work better for the power?

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Re: Purchasing and using an ultrasonic cleaner for liposomal vitamin C?

Post Number:#4  Post by BrightSideOfLife » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:14 pm

That site horse liposomal C does not use any vessel it uses the ultrasonic cleaner tank itself. That would increase the power available so less would be needed. I do not really like the idea of using the ultrasonic cleaner tank. Any vessel would reduce the power by absorbing ultrasonic energy therefore the smaller the vessel the better.

Regarding Phosphatidyl Choline, the levels in sunflower are a bit lower than PC in soy lecithin. It might be necessary to use slightly higher concentrations. Maybe determine the quantity typically in each and adjust the lecithin dosage accordingly. I use sunflower lecithin myself, defatted I think it is, which I believe removes the Omega 6 oils in particular which are not beneficial because most people consume far too much omega 6 fats.

Something which crossed my mind is that some people with cancer use natural herbs which have been shown to be helpful for certain cancers. Common things such as Turmeric/curcumin and reservertol are both poorly absorbed but liposomal forms are considerably better absorbed by the body. There are curcumin supplements with high bioavailability which use liposomes to dramatically improve the absorption. This might provide another use for a decent ultrasonic cleaner.

There are some fairly high powered units such as up to around 360 watt ultrasonic cleaners ie quite large 9 to 20 litres on eBay for around £100 which should put them in your price range, but they do not have the extra features such as degass etc. However the power concentration due to the larger tank might not be much better than something smaller. Ideally it would be more concentrated with a smaller base area, ie taller than wide. These ultrasonic cleaners tend to use the same transducers in them and just add extra transducers depending up on the size of the tank. If you look at the different models in a range, the power increases in some by 50 watts for each increase in size, 50, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300 [ EDIT these are incorrectly quoted by the eBay page 60 watts for each increase in size. 60,120,180,240,300 & 360] are typical power ratings for the different sized models.

The Role of Cavitation in Liposome Formation
This article uses a 80KHz frequency ultrasonic device, this article uses a thin-walled polyethylene bulb for the sample. However I do not like the idea of using plastics. Maybe some type of rubber but I am not sure whether that would absorb too much energy. Glass might allow the sonic energy through being so hard, if it can withstand the forces.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2098738/
http://laboratorytalk.com/article/400033/hielscher-explains-ultrasonic

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Re: Purchasing and using an ultrasonic cleaner for liposomal vitamin C?

Post Number:#5  Post by BrightSideOfLife » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:05 pm

I have made a correction to the ultrasonic power in my previous post because the eBay page for one of cheaper ultrasonic cleaners was incorrect. The seller quotes for 60 watt transducers whereas the ultrasonic cleaner uses 50 watt transducers and therefore the total ultrasonic power is lower.

I want to get the James 6MX as soon as I can find the money.


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