Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Studied for more than 80-years in animal models, calorie restriction is the only proven method for increasing life-span. Scientists have identified a set of genes that are expressed during calorie restriction, and have found dietary supplements that lead to the expression of so-called "anti aging" genes.

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Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:01 am

Gene Expression Profiling of Aging in Multiple Mouse Strains: Identification of Aging Biomarkers and Impact of Dietary Antioxidants
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2733852/

We also tested the ability of dietary antioxidants to oppose these transcriptional markers of aging. Lycopene, resveratrol, acetyl-L-carnitine, and Tempol were as effective as caloric restriction in the heart, and α-lipoic acid and coenzyme Q10 were as effective as caloric restriction in the cerebellum.



Short-term consumption of a resveratrol-containing nutraceutical mixture mimics gene expression of long-term caloric restriction in mouse heart.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18657603
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#2  Post by blade » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:40 am

what's the best way to induce these genes?

1. straight forward caloric restriction?(burn 2000/day, so you just eat 1800 and lose weight)
2. Intermittent Fasting where have 12 hrs between feedings?(burn 2000/day, so you just eat 1800, with at least 12 hours between meals and lose weight)
3. 5/2 diet: where you burn 2000 calories/day, but 5 days a week you eat 2000 calories and 2 days where you eat about 600 calories
4. Eat about your TDEE (2000 calories) and take a 200mgs or so of 2,4 DNP or some mitochondrial uncouplers


http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0018433
Overall, we find that, similarly to CR, mild systemic uncoupling in mammals promoted by DNP leads to a stimulated response of Akt pathways, NO• generation and mitochondrial biogenesis. These results bring further support to the concept that variations in energy metabolism, in independent ways, can converge to pathways that are determinant for lifespan extension.

I note that jack lalanne, lived to 96, and was a big on health and had 2 rules about food,
1. dont eat anything that's good(like candy is good, not your acquired taste for spinach or kale)
2 . eat twice a day
3. no snacking
4 no dairy
5 high protein/low fat
as a low fat diet(10-15% of total calories come from fat) also turns off cancer causing genes
http://www.pnas.org/content/105/24/8369.full.pdf+html

he has other rules,
http://rippeder.com/content/jack-lalann ... nd-fitness
get vitamin C every few hours vitamin C is water soluable and needed by the body constantly
best summary
http://nutritionreview.org/2013/04/collagen-connection/

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:14 am

I have not studied calorie restriction, but have watched this youtube lecture of Tomas Prolla where he explains his work with mice that led to the discovery of many of these genes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzrMEgl2DZ0
In a nutshell, Prolla uses hearing loss as a tool. They were able to restore hearing in mice by restricting their calories, and they were able to determine which genes the calorie restriction activated.

Near the end they report the finding that intracellular glutathione (GSH) universally (all tissues) at least DOUBLES under calorie restriction.

Bill Andrews (Sierra Sciences and author of Curing Aging) cautioned me that calorie restriction has only been "proven" in mice. He said that a recent experiment with primates calorie-restriction failed. He does not believe that calorie-restriction, per se, is the answer to human life extension.

I am personally fascinated by the rejuvenation properties of expressing the same anti-aging genes that restored hearing in mice.


Short-term consumption of a resveratrol-containing nutraceutical mixture mimics gene expression of long-term caloric restriction in mouse heart.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18657603
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#4  Post by blade » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:01 am

ofonorow wrote:I have not studied calorie restriction, but have watched this youtube lecture of Tomas Prolla where he explains his work with mice that led to the discovery of many of these genes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzrMEgl2DZ0
In a nutshell, Prolla uses hearing loss as a tool. They were able to restore hearing in mice by restricting their calories, and they were able to determine which genes the calorie restriction activated.

Near the end they report the finding that intracellular glutathione (GSH) universally (all tissues) at least DOUBLES under calorie restriction.

Bill Andrews (Sierra Sciences and author of Curing Aging) cautioned me that calorie restriction has only been "proven" in mice. He said that a recent experiment with primates calorie-restriction failed. He does not believe that calorie-restriction, per se, is the answer to human life extension.

I am personally fascinated by the rejuvenation properties of expressing the same anti-aging genes that restored hearing in mice.


Short-term consumption of a resveratrol-containing nutraceutical mixture mimics gene expression of long-term caloric restriction in mouse heart.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18657603

Hearing loss as a tool,..interesting

I saw Eat.fast with Mike Mosly talk about his 5:2 diet, where he hypothesized that IGF-1, needed in childhood/growing but high levels later in life appear to lead to accelerated aging and cancer, including breast cancer and prostate cancer, he says. Fasting appears to reduce the levels of IGF-1, and it appears to switch on a number of repair genes. The reason it happens is not fully understood, he says.--http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/19/fast-diet-michael-mosley/1997543/

But he insists and then goes to "show" in his documentary
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo ... ve_Longer/

that by eating 5 days normal and 2 days fasting diet…
can lower IGF-1, thus help you lost fat/weight while lowering IGF-1

and I thought in the video(it's been a few years since I've seen it) that he compared animals on 2 different diets
1 was given access to food 24/7
1 was given food according to his 5:2 principals
the later lived without diseases the 24/7 group got

I have never read anything where nutritionally sounds yet fat animals, lived a disease free life.
But I often hear about it for non-fat animals/people.
again, I am talking about disease, not about lifespan

Why being fat is so bad, I'm not 100% sure...
I mentioned above a few of the pros to being lean/eating in a deficit. IE sitruin genes

maybe it is IGF-1 or genes.
I watched "Ghost in your genes" http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcript ... genes.html
which talks about how twins(same genes) get different diseases likely because of: epigenetic changes.

Your diet causes epigenetic changes, via "chemical tag called a methyl molecule. Composed of carbon and hydrogen, it affixes near the a gene, shutting it down. Living creatures possess millions of tags like these. Some, like methyl molecules, attach to DNA directly. Other types grab histones, around which DNA wraps, and tighten or loosen them to turn genes on or off. "

If diet and chemicals can cause epigenetic changes, could certain experiences — child neglect, drug abuse or other severe stresses — also set off epigenetic changes to the DNA inside the neurons of a person’s brain?
and can those switches affect the switches in your kids/grandkids? that transcript I gave you for Ghost in your genes, talks about this just find term: "Overkalix "
http://discovermagazine.com/2013/may/13 ... your-genes

I dunno yet, so the methods that lead to reduced diseases, like CR/fasting, not being fat...are what I know work to reduce suffering from disease
I find it interesting/new to me that (GSH) doubles with CR, as I know IGF-1 drops,

so it seems to me key to good health is:
-find a way to eat that is going to bring your bodyfat %(not weight as much) down.
99.9%+ of diets dont care about bodyfat %, (they care about weight), nor nutrition,
-get good nutrition(which will require supplements)
-be active
-get a low bodyfat percentage
-be happy
-learn new things
-have sex
get vitamin C every few hours vitamin C is water soluable and needed by the body constantly
best summary
http://nutritionreview.org/2013/04/collagen-connection/

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:26 am

You can look at a specific blood factor (such as Insulin Growth Factor) and try to make something of it.

The bad news for advocates of calorie restriction is that while it is the only way to extend the life span of mice - it recently failed to extend life span in an experiment of higher order primates. Bill Andrews, Sierra Sciences recently told me this.

I agree with this author Josh Mittledorf that if you "meta analyze" all the theories of aging, they boil down to one primary root causes -- shortening telomeres.

http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2015/02/26/ideology-is-holding-back-aging-research/

(Technically he found two reasons).

What I don't understand is why mice, a species that does express some telomerase in all their cells, have such short life spans? (There are experiments that show if more telomerase is expressed in mice, they live longer.)

What kills the mice?
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#6  Post by blade » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:31 pm

ofonorow wrote:You can look at a specific blood factor (such as Insulin Growth Factor) and try to make something of it.

The bad news for advocates of calorie restriction is that while it is the only way to extend the life span of mice - it recently failed to extend life span in an experiment of higher order primates.

I thought the theory behind IGF-1 is
animal; protein will increase it
Fasting helps lower it

(mike mosley/eat fat diet tries to lower it)(ie intermittent fasting

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-19112549

he claims high levels of IGF-1 seem to lead to accelerate ageing and age-related diseases, while low levels are protective.
his idea is to eat normally 5days a week and eat few calories 2 days a week
not just eat few calories(diet) all week
because when the body is "fasting" he says "the reason seems to be that when our bodies no longer have access to food they switch from "growth mode" to "repair mode".

My concern would be less about a longer life then living a disease free life
Last edited by blade on Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
get vitamin C every few hours vitamin C is water soluable and needed by the body constantly
best summary
http://nutritionreview.org/2013/04/collagen-connection/

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#7  Post by ofonorow » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:08 pm

According to the recent telomere theory of aging, both better health and a longer life result from keeping telomeres from becoming critically short.

Most diseases occur at higher rates in the elderly, and if the theory is correct, this is because cells cannot be regenerated because stem cells die after their telomeres become to short for cell division. So under this view, the diseases that are prominent in the elderly are ultimately caused by critically short telomeres. Ergo: If you want any chance of staying healthy later in life, you cannot let your telomeres shorten.

What I think is interesting, supported by animal experiments, and as they say, time will tell, is the idea that we can actually rejuvenate our bodies by lengthening our telomeres. Just as calorie restriction does with mice, as Bruce Ames did with his lab rats, and others have done with human skin attached to live mice.

Ed Park's theory of the how and why this might occur is in Telomere Timebombs.

The first step in finding out is actually lengthening ones telomeres. In Ed Park's case that required 5 years. (We think we may be able to achieve the same growth in one year.) I as a guinea pig will then know, as will others around me (Chronological age 61) if there is anything to Park's theory in humans :)

As Andrews likes to say, "Cure aging, or die trying."
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#8  Post by blade » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:49 pm

ofonorow wrote:According to the recent telomere theory of aging, both better health and a longer life result from keeping telomeres from becoming critically short.

Most diseases occur at higher rates in the elderly, and if the theory is correct, this is because cells cannot be regenerated because stem cells die after their telomeres become to short for cell division. So under this view, the diseases that are prominent in the elderly are ultimately caused by critically short telomeres. Ergo: If you want any chance of staying healthy later in life, you cannot let your telomeres shorten.

What I think is interesting, supported by animal experiments, and as they say, time will tell, is the idea that we can actually rejuvenate our bodies by lengthening our telomeres. Just as calorie restriction does with mice, as Bruce Ames did with his lab rats, and others have done with human skin attached to live mice.

Ed Park's theory of the how and why this might occur is in Telomere Timebombs.

The first step in finding out is actually lengthening ones telomeres. In Ed Park's case that required 5 years. (We think we may be able to achieve the same growth in one year.) I as a guinea pig will then know, as will others around me (Chronological age 61) if there is anything to Park's theory in humans :)

As Andrews likes to say, "Cure aging, or die trying."

ok I'm in...so how do I lengthen my telomeres and/or reduce them from shortening?
diet? 6 days a week and overeating the 7th day, meaning weekly no caloric deficit, but 6 days a week you arent eating much
so you lower IFG-1? or whatever the EAT:FAST 5:2 diet is about?

I dont see many healthy older people who are fat.. so don't be fat, which is what this survey says
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22530540


How do those immortal jellyfish, the Turritopsis dohrnii, not die?
what about those big tortoises?
and other animals
http://www.cracked.com/article_20055_6- ... al_p2.html



Maybe I just need to start buying blood from kids to get more protein gdf-11 into my body?>
http://hsci.harvard.edu/news/functionin ... de-younger

I'd like my skin to look nice at least, how do I do that?
get vitamin C every few hours vitamin C is water soluable and needed by the body constantly
best summary
http://nutritionreview.org/2013/04/collagen-connection/

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#9  Post by gofanu » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:08 am

Just saw this thread somehow. Thanks Blade.
In my trucking days I found something, related to "calorie restriction", since confirmed by other data.
I ran a dump rig, and we hauled a lot of scrap metal, so I was amused and puzzled when I was sent to a place called Bakery Salvage, Buffalo NY, loading 44,000lbs for Harrisonburg VA. Note that is pretty near NIH in DC. The place is a huge old industrial building, drive right inside, headlights on, watch the millions of big rats scurry away - the entire several acres of floor and piles were covered with rats and mice - fat ones. Everything was black - and moving, when the headlights hit, then they were gone into the shadows, layered 6 or 10 deep - I am talking 2 foot deep waves of rats here. It was all subdivided into big bins, each with a different form of commercial bakery trash - bread, cake, cookies etc - the stuff you luckily did not buy before expiration date. Place reeked of rats and sugar- awful. Big front end loaders came; Loaded up and went to HBGVA, thinking all the way "what the hell is this stuff good for?"; when I asked at the far end, they said "lab rat feed, medical labs". i have since looked up typical "standard diets" for these poor beasts - generally around 65% carbohydrates - that crap I hauled in. I suppose that a good part of the "fats & oils" they get is from this source too. We don't speak of the chemicals.
I ask you, How can an animal NOT be healthier by eating less of this and all the chemicals, preservatives, altered fats, etc., that it contains?? And rat crap, probably dead rats too. This is similar to the Keyes cholesterol experiments which led to the goofy cholesterol-heart nonsense - it was OXIDISED cholesterol fed to herbivores, who have no reason or method to deal with any exogenous cholesterol, never mind pre-oxidised.

Note the quotation in this post #1 re antioxidants.
I note that iodine,Selenium, glutathione, AA, VE and more probably need to be added to that list.
I know the short list is what the paper says, but the others are central to my following argument.

I am not familiar with what Ames did with rats in this regard, however I expect his triage theory may have a lot to say on the subject. It would seem to me that this gene expression, and telomere preservation, is right at the point of both general health and long life. After all, presumably the genes are expressed as a part of a properly functioning organism's processes. Calorie restriction as such, should decrease the overall energy throughput - as it does in any heat engine, with a consequent reduction in activity (intracellular as well as or instead of extracellular-whole organism), assuming efficiency stays the same - it might improve as toxic wastes do not build up so quickly. But in any case, less cellular activity reduces wear and tear, and preserves cell function. That should make it unnecessary to replace that cell for some time, preserving telomere length. Similarly, giving the cell every nutrient it wants should increase efficiency, instantaneously and long term, with the same effect. And whatever majic proteins may be needed will be produced automatically. I further propose that lengthening of telomeres may be accomplished by the same repair mechanisms that repair everything else, once the immediate necessity has passed - immediate survival over long life, just as Ames says. Another point might be that telomere ends are a resource to be used in emergency (speed of replication making it that), and repaired "at your convenience" - takes some time.
My position is that fixing things now will give better health, and automatically increase lifespan of cells by that alone. Increased cellular lifespan will preserve telomere length. And in any event, if you expect to increase telomeres, they will require the exact same things the old ones you wasted did. So today's nutrition necessarily precedes tomorrow's quest for the Fountain of Youth. We know people can easily make 100yr+; if I can do that in health, I'm pretty OK with it. Not certain I could take much more anyway!

The concept (post 4) of fasting or semi fasting on a schedule seems ludicrous for normal life. In a 500 mile race, do you restrict fuel feed for 20 or 30 laps of every 100? Your car might have a better than average chance of finishing, but you ain't winning either. A vacation, or extended rest period, is equivalent to scheduled maintenance, certainly necessary. I have run long distances or times without - it is not good. If the "fast" coincides with the "rest", then one might be masking - or causing - the effects of the other.

Post 8 , Blade
"I'd like my skin to look nice at least, how do I do that?"
I'll make a post on that.

FRM

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#10  Post by blade » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:36 am

gofanu wrote:The concept (post 4) of fasting or semi fasting on a schedule seems ludicrous for normal life. In a 500 mile race, do you restrict fuel feed for 20 or 30 laps of every 100?

the fast stuff that Mike mosley talks about(eat:fast, http://crabsalloverhealth.blogspot.com/ ... rizon.html )
makes sense, if when the body is not feeding/digesting, it is repairing
You ask about a 500 mile race, but 500 is just an arbitrary number...look at the physiology of the human body,specifically how fast do you start to lose muscle when you fast? the fitness world would like you to believe you must eat every 2-3 hours or you lose precious muscle.. OR by eating 6+ times a day you will boost your metabolism and burn more calories.
but that's just not the case
lyle mcdonald, physiology nerd talks about this http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/resear ... view.html/

why does fasting seem "ludicrous"?
no where have I ever seen anything about eating more often, more calories helps a person live longer/better life.

indeed, every octogenarian or older ARE NOT FAT...so are they fasting a lot?
m. Mosely talks about this in his eat/fast plan, which he claims lowers IGF-1 and thus gives a person better health, all by eating total fewer calories with greater time between eating.

Leangains, which focuses on fasting, talks about the pros of intermittent fasting on health
http://www.leangains.com/2014/05/dirty- ... sting.html
get vitamin C every few hours vitamin C is water soluable and needed by the body constantly
best summary
http://nutritionreview.org/2013/04/collagen-connection/

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#11  Post by gofanu » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:25 pm

"no where have I ever seen anything about eating more often, more calories helps a person live longer/better life."
Evidently you have not ever had to live in very cold weather, or suffered actual hunger, when your life is measured in hours or days. And never suffered actual hypothermia, which is seriously unpleasant and all too near fatal, and your life is then measured in minutes. Maybe lucky for you, but missing some particular learning experiences.
I have never fasted in my life by choice, but much by circumstance - always unpleasant and weakening. I often find the need to eat more, and more often - see recent temperatures in the northeast. Even in the house with heat and heavy clothing, the amount of food required is very elevated.
I am not fat, and I eat a lot by most peoples perceptions, always have. Neither was my wife, daughter, or any of numerous friends I have advised. Maybe my/their metabolism works better than yours.
Maybe you ought to look into that, instead of whatever you have been reading.
I am not the one - you are, who mentioned gaining weight, plus assorted complaints that to me indicate health issues, many I believe specific to mal - bad - nutrition.
I wear the exact same clothes, in the same size, I wore 40 years ago, at 28. And the same weight I've been since I corrected my early malnutrition, near 70kg/155lb at 5'7". That through all manner of ups, downs, and side dishes. Such small variations as I have experienced were always related to deviation from the nutritional system I use, and return to that has always resulted in return to my "normal". I have made periodic improvements in my program, notably iodine/selenium/magnesium. These have resulted in numerous gains in energy and immune response, clear thinking*, but not any net overall effect on weight, fat etc.

The 500 mile race metaphor is just that - I thought it obvious. The point is not the 500 miles, it is that the race is to the end, a 10 lapper or 24hrs LeMans, or Peking to Paris, Boston to Shanghai in a clippership or whatever, and other than required pitstops, must be done at full throttle. You can take the metaphor as a full day, with maintenance when you are resting or sleeping, you can take it as a week, or a month, but I see no sense in shutting the fuel off for 2/7 or whatever. For those who cannot extend this to a whole life, I included the race season metaphor, with shop maintenance between actual races - that accounts for "vacation".

You seem to have a thing about prolonging life; I see that as a fear reaction. I have a thing about winning my own little personal race with only myself, it means keeping the vehicle humming at full possibility today, with joy and no fear - wide open out of the last turn on the last lap. If I crash then, drink a beer for me and throw a party.

*clear thinking: "brain fog", or more bluntly, functional stupidity, is a known result of several nutrient deficiencies, notably iodine, magnesium, and all the involved B vitamins. Also bad blood sugar control, because of hunger, or stress, or fear etc., All interrelated. There is a lot of it about.

FRM

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#12  Post by blade » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:30 am

gofanu wrote:.

t I see no sense in shutting the fuel off for 2/7 or whatever. For those who cannot extend this to a whole life, I included the race season metaphor, with shop maintenance between actual races - that accounts for "vacation".

You seem to have a thing about prolonging life; I see that as a fear reaction. I have a thing about winning my own little personal race with only myself, it means keeping the vehicle humming at full possibility today, with joy and no fear - wide open out of the last turn on the last lap. If I crash then, drink a beer for me and throw a party.

*clear thinking: "brain fog", or more bluntly, functional stupidity, is a known result of several nutrient deficiencies, notably iodine, magnesium, and all the involved B vitamins. Also bad blood sugar control, because of hunger, or stress, or fear etc., All interrelated. There is a lot of it about.

FRM

I have a hard time figuring out what you are saying/quoting.

you may not see a sense in fasting, but if fasting stimulates the body to repair itself, (or do whatever it does to preserve health) then it makes sense to do it
much in the same way, lifting weights stimulates to make/retain muscle, then that's a great reason to lift weights

I am not about prolonging life, Ive said many times my goal is to maintain/increase health, not length of life.
you seem to be misreading what I write.

here are some links to help you see I am inded talking about health,, not about extending life

Here where I talk about getting in 2000 calories/day(or whatever you need), but eating in a way to activate Sirtuin genes to help keep/get health:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11638&p=37867&hilit=dnp#p37867

and here, in a different thread, where I basically say the same thing, as people miss stuff in this forum
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=11675&p=38469&hilit=dnp#p38469

can you find ANYWHERE that I talk about extending life over getting healthy?
:?:
get vitamin C every few hours vitamin C is water soluable and needed by the body constantly
best summary
http://nutritionreview.org/2013/04/collagen-connection/

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#13  Post by gofanu » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:27 pm

"if fasting stimulates the body to repair itself,"
"IF" is the operative term here. I do not believe it to be so. I find it ridiculous to suppose that anything can be repaired without energy and required ingredients. Parts and workers.
I have observed that people fasting tend to be less active while doing so, because they are now low on energy, thus conserving resources, and not inducing damage. That may be beneficial, so is rest without the fast. But in truth, I do not know many who subscribe to the fasting idea, and none of those I have known ever appeared to be very healthy. And people who are hungry are generally bitchy and hard to teach. Somewhere lately I related the rat feed story - the poor beasts poisoned, so it seems reasonable that if they eat less of it (calorie deprivation) they will be healthier and last longer - same goes for people, but if you eat real food as you require, it is not a factor.

"I am not about prolonging life, Ive said many times my goal is to maintain/increase health, not length of life. you seem to be misreading what I write."
I know you keep saying that, but I get the sense of fear of impending death, yours and/or your significants. Are you telling me/us, or are you telling yourself, trying so hard to believe it? Your conscious brain and your testosterone tell you to not be afraid, but your words sound otherwise. Note that this is the "life extension" forum. That is why I missed this thread , because I am not much concerned in the whole subject, put that way. I came to it solely because you posted an interesting link that led me here, and it is a PITA figuring out how to find it again. I am "interested" (in everything!) but there are only so many hours in a day, and I use a lot of them here, to the detriment of other interests.

What I am telling you is not to put you down, embarrass you, or drive you into a corner. It is not a dominance fight, male or otherwise, not an emotional argument. It is, in my intent, a reasoned exploration of possibility, with some few resultant aids to a pleasant life. The fear of death is a common and very strong driver for many, maybe most or even all. How much death have you experienced, right in your face? It is important to accept reality. If you do not like it, you adjust or compensate or trick the bugger into submission - but you cannot deny and ignore it, and still be sane. You started out asking for some help and assistance in these matters, I'm trying. I do not demand that you agree, only that you listen and honestly consider. You will likely benefit more than I, even though I learn from all I meet.

FRM

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Re: Papers on Gene Expression Induced by Calorie Restrction

Post Number:#14  Post by blade » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:48 am

gofanu wrote:"if fasting stimulates the body to repair itself,"
"IF" is the operative term here. I do not believe it to be so. I find it ridiculous to suppose that anything can be repaired without energy and required ingredients. Parts and workers.
I have observed that people fasting tend to be less active while doing so, because they are now low on energy, thus conserving resources, and not inducing damage. That may be beneficial, so is rest without the fast. But in truth, I do not know many who subscribe to the fasting idea, and none of those I have known ever appeared to be very healthy. And people who are hungry are generally bitchy and hard to teach. Somewhere lately I related the rat feed story - the poor beasts poisoned, so it seems reasonable that if they eat less of it (calorie deprivation) they will be healthier and last longer - same goes for people, but if you eat real food as you require, it is not a factor.

"I am not about prolonging life, Ive said many times my goal is to maintain/increase health, not length of life. you seem to be misreading what I write."
I know you keep saying that, but I get the sense of fear of impending death, yours and/or your significants. Are you telling me/us, or are you telling yourself, trying so hard to believe it? Your conscious brain and your testosterone tell you to not be afraid, but your words sound otherwise. Note that this is the "life extension" forum. That is why I missed this thread , because I am not much concerned in the whole subject, put that way. I came to it solely because you posted an interesting link that led me here, and it is a PITA figuring out how to find it again. I am "interested" (in everything!) but there are only so many hours in a day, and I use a lot of them here, to the detriment of other interests.

What I am telling you is not to put you down, embarrass you, or drive you into a corner. It is not a dominance fight, male or otherwise, not an emotional argument. It is, in my intent, a reasoned exploration of possibility, with some few resultant aids to a pleasant life. The fear of death is a common and very strong driver for many, maybe most or even all. How much death have you experienced, right in your face? It is important to accept reality. If you do not like it, you adjust or compensate or trick the bugger into submission - but you cannot deny and ignore it, and still be sane. You started out asking for some help and assistance in these matters, I'm trying. I do not demand that you agree, only that you listen and honestly consider. You will likely benefit more than I, even though I learn from all I meet.

FRM

I've been thrown into a state of confusion by your left field, off topic post.
We arent measuring our cocks here man, you seem to feel as though we are, since you think someone has such low self-esteem to be embarrassed on the internet by any anonymous internet persona.
what do you think you are saying that is useful? that i, or anyone, can take and use?
I don't see anything..
I am not trying put you down, embarrass you, or drive you into a corner., I simply don't understand what help to anyone your post is?
if you figure it out, maybe you can make it more clear and succinct?

Back on message:
Let's just focus on the issues brought to the table, namely does fasting help someone be healthy.

I understand you don't understand how stimulating the body via periods of no calories can do anything. I used to be puzzled by how damaging the body can cause it to want to grow bigger, but then I just accepted that is what weight lifting is all about., I have to damage my muscles in order to stimulate them to grow.

Is overeating healthy? Does eating so many calories you get fat make a person healthy? one a person gets fat, even with 200% RDA of everything, you get fat, that's not healthy.
I am interested in the health benefits of sirtuin activation, as that seems to do something and a way to activtate sirtuin genes.

If you look at what I said more carefully,I think you mis understood, when you say things like, I do not believe it to be so. I find it ridiculous to suppose that anything can be repaired without energy and required ingredients. Parts and workers. I think I can fix it
I am not saying don't feed the body,I am saying don't constantly feed the body.
see that's what I am talking about?
look at some of my other posts, you are still getting all the calories you need daily, BUT instead of eating 2000 calories within 24 hours, you eat them without 8 hours and sometimes you eat more than 2000 within 24 hours after having not eaten for 24 hours.
I am not asking for your personal beliefs to change like you think your beliefs matter. ie I do not believe it to be so. I find it ridiculous to suppo
I am soley looking for and at research that shows fasting for different periods of times helps health.

Michael Mosley compared animals, those given access to food 24/7 and those that were given access to food much like in his eat/fast book/ only 8 hours a day,

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18a1b ... _lifestyle

the animals that were given food 24/7 had more disease than the ones that were forced to fast.
you don't think how often a person eats can affect anything?>
I wonder about about it hence I ask others to share useful info, that's what lead me to this site and why Im asking you what knowledge are you trying share with your long post?
the basics of fasting is learned from leangains.com http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

from a guy who fasts, yet is in excellent shape
or from the mike mosly special, which is summed up here, in a video i don't 90% agree with, but it gives you the basics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Aj6hRYg4A
(telling you to eat whatever you want 5 days a week and 2 days a week eat very little(which is not what the leangains site agrees with) and you'll prevent onset of dz's.

I find it all interesting, much in the way I first found the idea about taking grams of vitamin C interesting...I still take 10-15grams of vitamin C a day, I can't say for sure I've had any results, but I dont see a downside....do I see a downside to the IFing? aside from the work it takes to not be eating whenever I get hungry, no..I do see many upsides.
what do you think about IFing for better health?
might it have some use over eating 24/7? (eating same foods)
get vitamin C every few hours vitamin C is water soluable and needed by the body constantly
best summary
http://nutritionreview.org/2013/04/collagen-connection/


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