Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Focus on Hong Kong Dr. Leung's vitamin B5 discovery that megadoses of pantothenic acid maintain metabolism of a calorie deficit, leading to sustained weight loss without hunger, weakness or ketosis

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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#106  Post by ofonorow » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:01 am

johnwen, I hope you catch this. I have access to all my lab test results, I wondered what effect, if any, the high dose vitamin B5 had on my anemia... I started 10,000 mg of vitamin B5 during July. The following labs are before, just when I started and after. (Oct 13, 2017 was the obstruction and the latest from last week's hospital stay)

The Early 2017 labs are from just after the sepsis/pneumonia in February 2017

I don't know how the anemia is diagnosed, but I do notice that all the blood numbers seemed to have improved, e.g. hemaglobin, hemacrit, etc. on the Oct 13, 2017 labs.




CBC



Code: Select all

[size=150]4/6/2017  3:55 PM [/size]
Component Results
Component
Value
Ref Range & Units
Status

WBC
5.47
4.00 - 13.00 10*3/uL
Final

RBC
4.52
4.30 - 5.70 10*6/uL
Final

Hemoglobin
12.0
13.0 - 17.0 g/dL
Final

Hematocrit
34.2
37.0 - 53.0 %
Final

MCV
75.7
80.0 - 99.0 fL
Final

MCH
26.5
27.0 - 33.2 pg
Final

MCHC
35.1
31.0 - 37.0 g/dL
Final

Platelet Count
144
150 - 450 10*3/uL
Final

RDW
16.4
11.5 - 16.0 %
Final

MPV
9.5
7.0 - 11.5 fL
Final

Neutrophils Absolute
3.59
1.30 - 6.70 10ˆ3/µL
Final

Lymphocytes Absolute
1.44
0.90 - 4.00 10*3/uL
Final

Monocytes Absolute
0.39
0.10 - 0.60 10*3/uL
Final

Eosinophils Absolute
0.03
0.00 - 0.30 10*3/uL
Final

Basophils Absolute
0.02
0.00 - 0.10 10*3/uL
Final

nRBC Absolute
0.000
0.000 - 0.012 10*3/uL
Final

Neutrophils %
65.7
%
Final

Lymphocytes %
26.3
%
Final

Monocytes %
7.1
%
Final

Eosinophils %
0.5
%
Final

Basophils %
0.4
%
Final

nRBC/100 WBC
0.00
/100WBC
Final
Lab and Collection
CBC W/ DIFFERENTIAL on 4/6/2017

[size=150]10/13/2017 10:55 AM [/size]  Obstruction - 3 months on high B5
Component Results
Component
Value
Ref Range & Units
Status

WBC
9.08
4.00 - 13.00 10*3/uL
Final

RBC
5.22
4.30 - 5.70 10*6/uL
Final

Hemoglobin
13.6
13.0 - 17.0 g/dL
Final

Hematocrit
39.5
37.0 - 53.0 %
Final

MCV
75.7
80.0 - 99.0 fL
Final

MCH
26.1
27.0 - 33.2 pg
Final

MCHC
34.4
31.0 - 37.0 g/dL
Final

Platelet Count
165
150 - 450 10*3/uL
Final

RDW
15.1
11.5 - 16.0 %
Final

MPV
10.0
7.0 - 11.5 fL
Final

Neutrophils Absolute
7.46
1.30 - 6.70 10ˆ3/µL
Final

Lymphocytes Absolute
1.14
0.90 - 4.00 10*3/uL
Final

Monocytes Absolute
0.45
0.10 - 0.60 10*3/uL
Final

Eosinophils Absolute
0.02
0.00 - 0.30 10*3/uL
Final

Basophils Absolute
0.01
0.00 - 0.10 10*3/uL
Final

nRBC Absolute
0.000
0.000 - 0.012 10*3/uL
Final

Neutrophils %
82.1
%
Final

Lymphocytes %
12.6
%
Final

Monocytes %
5.0
%
Final

Eosinophils %
0.2
%
Final

Basophils %
0.1
%
Final

nRBC/100 WBC
0.00
/100WBC
Final

Lab and Collection
CBC W/ DIFFERENTIAL on 10/13/2017


[size=150]11/20/2017  7:22 AM [/size]  Mesh infection
Component Results
Component
Value
Ref Range & Units
Status

WBC
5.9
4.0 - 13.0 x10(3) uL
Final

RBC
3.66
4.30 - 5.70 x10(6)uL
Final

HGB
11.0
13.0 - 17.0 g/dL
Final

HCT
31.4
37.0 - 53.0 %
Final

PLT
176.0
150.0 - 450.0 10(3)uL
Final

MCV
85.8
80.0 - 99.0 fL
Final

MCH
30.1
27.0 - 33.2 pg
Final

MCHC
35.0
31.0 - 37.0 g/dL
Final

RDW

11.5 - 16.0 %
Final
Unable to result due to dimorphic RBC population

RDW-SD

35.1 - 46.3 fL
Final
Unable to result due to dimorphic RBC population

Neutrophil Absolute Prelim
4.61
1.30 - 6.70 x10 (3) uL
Final

Neutrophil Absolute
4.61
1.30 - 6.70 x10(3) uL
Final

Lymphocyte Absolute
0.96
0.90 - 4.00 x10(3) uL
Final

Monocyte Absolute
0.31
0.10 - 0.60 x10(3) uL
Final

Eosinophil Absolute
0.01
0.00 - 0.30 x10(3) uL
Final

Basophil Absolute
0.01
0.00 - 0.10 x10(3) uL
Final

Immature Granulocyte Absolute
0.03
0.00 - 1.00 x10(3) uL
Final

Neutrophil %
77.7
%
Final

Lymphocyte %
16.2
%
Final

Monocyte %
5.2
%
Final

Eosinophil %
0.2
%
Final

Basophil %
0.2
%
Final

Immature Granulocyte %
0.5
%
Final
Lab and Collection
CBC W/ DIFFERENTIAL on 11/20/2017
Result History
CBC W/ DIFFERENTIAL on 11/20/2017



Looks to me like all blood counts improved since B5 - although what does this mean? Unable to result due to dimorphic RBC population


For completenesss


METABOLIC PANEL


Code: Select all

[size=150]5/17/2014  3:13 PM [/size]
Component Results
Component
Value
Ref Range & Units
Status
GLUCOSE
86
65 - 99 mg/dL
Final

BUN
23
8 - 20 mg/dL
Final

CREATININE
0.94
0.7 - 1.2 mg/dL
Final

GFR AFRICAN AMERICAN
102
>60
Final

Estimated GFR units: mL/min/1.73 square meters
GFR NON-AFRICAN AMERICAN
88
>60
Final

Estimated GFR units: mL/min/1.73 square meters
CALCIUM
9.1
8.9 - 10.3 mg/dL
Final
Corrected Calcium Formula:
((4.0 - ALBUMIN) x 0.8) + CALCIUM
Note:
Calculation is only valid when Albumin is less then 4.0 g/dL
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE
76
45 - 115 U/L
Final

AST
25
15 - 41 U/L
Final

ALT
56
17 - 63 U/L
Final

BILIRUBIN, TOTAL
1.0
0.1 - 2.0 mg/dL
Final
TOTAL PROTEIN
7.9
6.1 - 8.3 g/dL
Final

ALBUMIN
4.2
3.5 - 4.8 g/dL
Final
SODIUM
144
136 - 144 mmol/L
Final

POTASSIUM
4.1
3.6 - 5.1 mmol/L
Final
CHLORIDE
108
101 - 111 mmol/L
Final

CO2
29.0
22.0 - 32.0 mmol/L
Final

EDWARD HOSPITAL LABORATORY, 801 S. WASHINGTON ST.,,NAPERVILLE,IL,60540
Lab and Collection
COMP METABOLIC PANEL (14) on 5/17/2014
Result History
COMP METABOLIC PANEL (14) on 5/17/2014


[size=150]7/17/2017  8:54 AM [/size]
Component Results
Component
Value
Ref Range & Units
Status

Glucose
180
70 - 99 mg/dL
Final

Blood Urea Nitrogen
30
8 - 20 mg/dL
Final

Creatinine
1.20
0.70 - 1.30 mg/dL
Final
Traceable to IDMS

Sodium
143
136 - 144 mmol/L
Final

Potassium
4.2
3.6 - 5.1 mmol/L
Final

Chloride
106
101 - 111 mmol/L
Final

Carbon Dioxide
24.3
22.0 - 32.0 mmol/L
Final

Calcium
9.3
8.3 - 10.3 mg/dL
Final
Corrected Calcium Formula: ((4.0 - Albumin) x 0.8) + Calcium)      Note: Calculation is only valid when Albumin is less than 4.0 g/dL

Total Protein
7.3
6.1 - 8.3 g/dL
Final

Albumin
3.8
3.5 - 4.8 g/dL
Final

Bilirubin, Total
1.10
0.10 - 2.00 mg/dL
Final

Alkaline Phosphatase
74
45 - 117 U/L
Final

AST
18
15 - 41 U/L
Final

ALT
26
17 - 63 U/L
Final

GFR CKD-EPI
63.97
>=60.00 mL/min/1.73 m²
Final

Estimated GFR units: mL/min/1.73 square meters
eGFR calculated by the CKD-EPI equation.
Lab and Collection


[size=150]COMP METABOLIC PANEL (14) on 7/17/2017

10/13/2017 11:12 AM [/size]
Component Results
Component
Value
Ref Range & Units
Status

Glucose
217
70 - 99 mg/dL
Final

Blood Urea Nitrogen
23
8 - 20 mg/dL
Final

Creatinine
1.20
0.70 - 1.30 mg/dL
Final
Traceable to IDMS

Sodium
142
136 - 144 mmol/L
Final

Potassium
4.4
3.6 - 5.1 mmol/L
Final

Chloride
106
101 - 111 mmol/L

Final
Carbon Dioxide
25.1
22.0 - 32.0 mmol/L

Final
Calcium
9.7
8.3 - 10.3 mg/dL
Final
Corrected Calcium Formula: ((4.0 - Albumin) x 0.8) + Calcium)      Note: Calculation is only valid when Albumin is less than 4.0 g/dL

Total Protein
7.9
6.1 - 8.3 g/dL
Final

Albumin
3.8
3.5 - 4.8 g/dL
Final

Bilirubin, Total
1.10
0.10 - 2.00 mg/dL
Final

Alkaline Phosphatase
78
45 - 117 U/L
Final

AST
31
15 - 41 U/L
Final

ALT
27
17 - 63 U/L

Final
GFR CKD-EPI
63.97
>=60.00 mL/min/1.73 m²
Final

Estimated GFR units: mL/min/1.73 square meters
eGFR calculated by the CKD-EPI equation.
Lab and Collection
COMP METABOLIC PANEL (14) on 10/13/2017


[size=150]11/20/2017  6:50 AM [/size]
Component Results
Component
Value
Ref Range & Units
Status

Glucose
255
70 - 99 mg/dL
Final

BUN
21
8 - 20 mg/dL
Final

Creatinine
1.02
0.70 - 1.30 mg/dL
Final

GFR
78
>=60
Final

Estimated GFR units: mL/min/1.73 square meters
eGFR calculated by the CKD-EPI equation.

Calcium, Total
8.3
8.3 - 10.3 mg/dL
Final

Total Calciums are not corrected for effects of low albumin. If needed, use the following correction formula.

  Corrected Calcium Formula:
    ((4.0 - Albumin) x 0.8 + Calcium
  Note: Calculation is only valid when Albumin is less than 4.0g/dL.

Sodium
141
136 - 144 mmol/L
Final

Potassium
4.2
3.6 - 5.1 mmol/L
Final

Chloride
110
101 - 111 mmol/L
Final

CO2
24.0
22.0 - 32.0 mmol/L
Final
Lab and Collection
BASIC METABOLIC PANEL (8) on 11/19/2017
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#107  Post by Johnwen » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:09 pm

Owen Wrote;

although what does this mean? Unable to result due to dimorphic RBC population


Answer;
https://www.labce.com/spg497491_dimorph ... ation.aspx

Here’s some of the things that can cause it!!

This is the component of this therapy .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin

Another cause could be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myelodysplastic_syndrome

This is what I would be more inclined to think due to your adrenal malfunction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aplastic_anemia

Without a microscopic look at your RBC’s it would be hard to tell if this is related.

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1997096-overview

This is something your doc needs to address!
My thoughts are your immune system isn’t being controlled and blunted by your lack of natural cortisol production as while as your diabetic condition.
Which in turn is attacking and starving your production blood cells in your bones.
Right now I would look at your B12 and Folic acid intake and adjust a LITTLE Upward. Don’t over do it! You could go for say, 2500Mcg B12 and about 800Mcg Folic, should help till your doc gets involved.
Don’t forget this problem also affects the kidneys and can lower EGFR.

Hope this helps with your understanding!
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#108  Post by ofonorow » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:06 am

Thanks johnwen. They have been saying that I have anemia, at least since 2010. How is that diagnosed? Here are the comparisons, and to me, things look like they have improved since I started high dose B5 (double red blood cell phenomenon aside).


April 2017 .......... October 2017
Before vitamin B5 .......... After vitamin B5

RBC .......... RBC
4.52 .......... 5.22

4.30 - 5.70 10*6/uL



Hemoglobin .......... Hemoglobin
12.0 .......... 13.6

13.0 - 17.0 g/dL


Hematocrit .......... Hematocrit
34.2 .......... 39.5

37.0 - 53.0 %


MCV .......... MCV
75.7 .......... 75.7

80.0 - 99.0 fL


MCH .......... MCH
26.5 .......... 26.1

27.0 - 33.2 pg


MCHC .......... MCHC
35.1 .......... 34.4

31.0 - 37.0 g/dL


Platelet Count .......... Platelet Count
144 .......... 165

150 - 450 10*3/uL


RDW .......... RDW
16.4 .......... 15.1

11.5 - 16.0 %


MPV .......... MPV
9.5 .......... 10.0

7.0 - 11.5 fL
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#109  Post by Johnwen » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:12 pm

Here’s what anemia is!

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health ... cs/anemia/

Ok! So RBC’s are in range.
However now their showing a, “dimorphic RBC population.”

So what this is telling me is that the test machine they were using back then couldn’t differentiate the hypochromic with normocytic normochromic RBCs.

Then when you had your blood work done on a more sophisticated system
That was capable of differentiating microcytic to macrocytic RBC’s it showed a dimorphic (di=meaning TWO, morphic= meaning DIFFERENT FORMS, Ie. TWO DIFFERENT FORMS) condition. Which just simply means you have 2 different types of RBC’s in your blood. One type is healthy the other is not.

So they Won’t give a accurate count on what your doc ordered!
Now he/she now knows there is problem there and further investigation and more detailed testing is required.

The reason for the difference is the problem.
So lets see where and how RBC’S are produced!
I chose the patient portal for understanding just scroll down to the RBC part!

http://www.hematology.org/Patients/Basics/


So as you see were looking at many aspects from hormones to kidney’s to bones and further on.
Now the task is to locate and identify the specific problem and take corrective action.

So getting back to your original statement about things getting better they may appear that way however the still is a problem that NEEDS to be corrected.

Hope this helps in your understanding! :?
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#110  Post by ofonorow » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:33 am

It helps, but what if... What if the B5 has improved things to the extent that now more "normal" RBCs are appearing, and the other type are left overs from the pre-vitamin B5 era?
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#111  Post by Johnwen » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:53 pm

OWEN Wrote;
What if the B5 has improved things to the extent that now more "normal" RBCs are appearing, and the other type are left overs from the pre-vitamin B5 era?


4/6/2017  3:55 PM
RBC
4.52
4.30 - 5.70 10*6/uL
Final

Hemoglobin
12.0
13.0 - 17.0 g/dL
Final


10/13/2017 10:55 AM  Obstruction - 3 months on high B5
RBC
5.22
4.30 - 5.70 10*6/uL
Final

Hemoglobin
13.6
13.0 - 17.0 g/dL
Final

11/20/2017  7:22 AM  Mesh infection
RBC
3.66
4.30 - 5.70 x10(6)uL
Final

HGB
11.0
13.0 - 17.0 g/dL
Final


What I’m seeing here is RBC’s are going Ok, Good, Bad and the Hemoglobin Low, Ok, Bad!

Now I’m going to play Devil’s advocate!!

Let’s say you are producing a multi piece product, and one of the components inventory is low. Which in turn is restricting and limiting your output. Now you get a big order and go out and push your people to get it done! So they ramp up production but some of the final products are missing the key part because of low inventory, making them unusable.
So you have a mix of Good and Bad going out the door! Does this Sound like you’ll stay in business? Not for long!!

Same thing with RBC’s B5 promotes their production but if one of the key components in their makeup is missing your going to get the mixed results just like above. Since RBC’s bring oxygen to the cells in your body eventually things will start to fall apart!

So Like I said before your doc needs to pinpoint the problem and correct it.
Wishful thinking isn’t going to solve this problem either!
BTW in and out time for RBC’s is about 10-14days!
So the bad guys should have been gone between the last two blood tests if there was a change in levels.
With your “Immature Granulocyte Absolute” levels so low it’s a good indicator your infection is mild at that point in time.

The rest is up to your doc!!
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#112  Post by ofonorow » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:24 am

I'm not sure my docs are up to the task. Assuming your scenario is correct, that something "else" is missing, any ideas? The earlier post mentioned that hormone required to make RBCs.. Should I ask about that?

Bottom line, is that I have been feeling great, whether the high B5, DMSO/IV, etc., other than my body noticing the mesh and trying to dissolve it, I really feel good. Furthermore, I have been diagnosed as "anemic" since before 2010... My docs have looked into (as have you!) but never resolved it. The closest thing to resolving it seems to be the high dose vitamin B5.

And my endo has weaned my cortisol down to 30 mg/day... No pain, no problems, no errors...
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#113  Post by Johnwen » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:59 am

Let’s take a look at that hormone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin

And the process

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoiesis


Hmmm!
You see where it’s produced?
What’s them little glands that are attached on top of these?
Know anybody with sluggish or non functioning little glands?
BTW what way is your EGF going?

I think you can see what maybe the two suspect’s in this picture are!!!

Like I said before!
Right now I would look at your B12 and Folic acid intake and adjust a LITTLE Upward. Don’t over do it! You could go for say, 2500Mcg B12 and about 800Mcg Folic, should help till your doc gets involved.


You could also throw in a little extra iron, something like Slow-Fe which is a 160mg. Ferrous sulfate. I’m thinking 1 every other day should be enough for now.

However your doc’s need to identify what type of cells your dealing with in your blood and find out if it is a Recticulocytosis or some other type of deviation going on there.

Remember also saying someone has Anemia is like saying the person is carrying a book! Then the questions can arise such as What kind, What’s in it, how big is it, etc. ,etc. ???
You get the picture “THE SPECIFIC PROBLEM NEEDS TO BE IDENTIFIED!”

I Glad your felling Good! Which means your body is compensating but like the old saying (Sorry! but I have to be a kill joy!)
“Could this just be the Calm before the Storm??”
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#114  Post by ofonorow » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:23 am

In out time of 14 days is confusing. Google reports the life of RBCs is 120 days, or 4 months. Which is about where we are since starting B5
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#115  Post by Johnwen » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:46 am

Yes! I missed the word, “defective.” :oops:

RBC’s that are not productive, are removed more rapidly then those who are doing their job.
This one says 10-20 days but the real bad guy’s could be gone in 3-5 days.

In what I’m assuming you have,
a good range of elimination would be expected at around 10-14 days through eryptosis!

Here’s a link that explains this better then I can on this post!

Note the word, “Phosphatidylserine.”
It’s available as a supplement! The extra amount could increase the rate of disposal of the bad guy‘s!!

LINK:
http://rsos.royalsocietypublishing.org/ ... 4/4/160850
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#116  Post by ofonorow » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:18 am

Accidentally discovered that not taking massive (10,000 mg) of vitamin B5 does adversely affect my adrenal function
Discussing at new topic:
http://vitaminc.foundation/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13727#p51419
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#117  Post by sammy12345 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:06 pm

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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#118  Post by sammy12345 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:13 am

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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#119  Post by sammy12345 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:01 am

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Last edited by sammy12345 on Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

ofonorow
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Re: Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

Post Number:#120  Post by ofonorow » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:03 am

sammy12345 wrote:After thinking about it more I have decided to just stay on pantothenic acid high dose instead of panthenol for a few reasons. Panthenol is an analog- it is not naturally occurring- it has not been studied long term where as pantothenic acid has a study of 12g dosage a day for 4 years with no toxic effects-the studies saying panthenol is more bio available may be faked just to sell panthenol when it was first under patent decades ago; this seems common with analogs of things. Might try pantothenic acid in enteric coated capsules to save having to take such a large amount each day as multiple sources suggest it breaks down a lot in the stomach.


Appreciate your expertise, and sorry about the delay in responding (Apparently everything that happens in Vegas doesn't stay in Vegas - I took influenza Type A home with me.).

It sounds like you found an expensive source of CoEnzyme A? Is that true?

We focused on pantothenic acid and pantethine - because, at least for Acne, the pantethine form was effective at about 1/5 the dose of ordinary vitamin B5.
Owen R. Fonorow
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