Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Ask questions, seek advice, or share your experience with vitamin C

Moderator: ofonorow

Johnwen
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 2012
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#16  Post by Johnwen » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:47 pm

Here’s the one on the IV Test!
The other one Is rather confusing?? :?:
Is it done by date? By use or what?? :?:


Image
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12625
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#17  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:27 am

Thanks - the question about the "other" one being confusing - you mean the previous graph?

That was a 40 minute IV/C (blood measurements) with a different kind of meter, plotted with oral vitamin C taken at the same rate, e.g.
250 mg every minute. The idea was to compare the same amount of vitamin C in the blood taken orally and via IV - showing that for the
first 4000 mg - the amount entering the blood was the same :-)

If you meant the previous data - that was a 10 gram gulp - just to verify that the Libre meter responds to vitamin C.

From your 2nd graph, while delayed and extended in time, the curve looks very similar to the original IV/C, but the numbers are much higher,
about double? I think this has implications regarding our attempt to figure out "blood" concentrations that are equivalent to test tube concentrations, and my next post (will also be in the cancer section) is based on knowledge we are gaining in this topic. (Next up - Libre measurment of 10 grams of Liposomal Vitamin C.)
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12625
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#18  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:34 am

Note: Excerpt from the private cancer section because this knowledge is derived from the research in this topic...

Owen,

Can you give me suggested dosing guidelines on the Conquer product for someone with cancer (primary uterine with mets to liver and brain, stable, with initially lowered CA125 tumor markers that has been increasing since she was told that "IV vitramin C" was no longer available on the day before her chemotherapy. Previous to that she was getting one IVC infusion before each chemotherapy treatment.

She has your Conquer product and was concerned about any kind of "liver toxicity" but mostly wants to know what would be recommended as far as dosing with her cancer.

Thanks, Owen. Time is of the essence
,


Hi,

Our ideas are changing, but not concrete. We may be learning why such low dosages of Conquer have been reported effective.

We usually include the Conquer Instructions with every first-time order. We originally calculated, based on average blood volume,
that one-half bottle, all at once, and preferably along with an IV/C, had the best chance reaching the Sensuke etl.al. concentrations in test tubes that was found to be cancer--lethal. Ordinary malignancies. No known side effects - other than killing all the cancer all at once, which is why we recommended starting slowly, and waiting for a liver detox/herx reaction. Back off until it subsides, and then resume and slowly increase. Our cancer forum contains many examples of protocols like this and we usually also include a document from a person's relative who went to Arthur Anderson... That person is still alive - and ordering.

We have only had one person with prostate cancer, and he didn't experience the kind of remission that have been reported with other cancers.

I was surprised by the first case where a pancreatic cancer was apparently put into remission on only one or two jars of Conquer,
with no instructions. Since then we have learned something.

The amount of vitamin C in the body fluids, the interstitial fluid, is influenced by the blood, but vitamin C apparently lasts much longer in body fluids. And while we don't understand the readings (they are for glucose) a 10 gram IV/C raised the interstitial fluids to 500 mg/dl (normal is 90) or about 350 points above my baseline. However, instead of being half gone in 30 minutes - like the blood - these readings persisted for hours... 4-6 hours. This was IV, and the upper level was much lower for 10 grams orally, but there was an unexpected persistence, and I think this may explain why less than 1/2 bottle of Conquer has been effective.

So start with one serving Conquer every 3 hours the first day - until there is some kind of Herx. I would take ordinary vitamin C
powder too, because our experiments with the interstitial fluids have so-far been with ascorbic acid ultrafine powder. We know
liposomal lasts longer in the blood, but do not know yet what that means regarding the fluids that bathe our cells. Soon.

As a review, new science from India has shown that the seeds of cancer, Cancer Stem Cells (CSCs) are either promoted or killed,
depending on the dosage of vitamin C. We created our White Paper based on keeping blood levels at the CSC-killing concentration, but a much lower level MIGHT be lethal given the knowledge we are gaining regarding the body fluids.

To keep blood levels at the CSC-lethal concentration, about 1 gram every 2 hours of vitamin C is required. So the person you
are helping should attempt to achieve this level, and our Cameron chewables were designed so that perhaps 500 mg could
be easily taken every hour...

And if you/they haven't seen the documentary CANCER CAN BE KILLED,
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0748NNDK8
they raise the "trojan" horse theory why vitamin C - alone - can literally starve cancer cells who use it like glucose, but
it cannot fill the rapidly dividing cell's energy requirements.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

Johnwen
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 2012
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#19  Post by Johnwen » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:27 am

I was talking about the one with this written above it!

OWEN SAID:

Here is the raw data from the Libre report software for the record


I guess it’s just a dump from the meter without time/date stamp.
Without the time/date stamp all it would show is a series of up and down numbers.
The other graphs are straight forward.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12625
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#20  Post by ofonorow » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:11 pm

Right - I had trouble making sense of it - but I saw most of the numbers I had written down.. Just for completeness.. Little more sense on the graph. That was after turning graph into pdf...

Interesting plot would be first two interstitial data sets -- oral, and IV...

I have "my guy" working on the plots versus the old finger prick data

Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

Johnwen
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 2012
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#21  Post by Johnwen » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:06 pm

I stretched the oral out to match the IV time.
It shows the IV gives a higher reading which makes sense since it don’t have to go through the GI system.
Although did it reach Flash Oxidation levels???

Image
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12625
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#22  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:43 am

Now I am confused.. The oral was one hour, merely a proof of concept - that Libre did measure vitamin C.

The IV/C w/libre was from around 11 00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m or 5 1/2 hours

What I was saying is that for the IV/Libre - it started every minute, then went to every two or 3 minutes after the IV stopped,
and then every 20-30 minutes... So the scale changes... A correct scale might be every 10 minutes for 6 hours..

I still have to rerun the 10 g gulp (oral) with the libre - over 6 hours (big sigh) to see the difference between IV and Oral.

The next experiment will probably be 10 grams of liposomal vitamin C - over six hours.. BIG SIGH (If I start around 4:00 a.m.,
I can eat drink and be merry around 10:00 a.m.)

Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

Johnwen
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 2012
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#23  Post by Johnwen » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:33 am

Let’s see!
You took your V-C Oral from 6:33 AM to 7:03 AM
AKA; ½ Hour!
if you want to add the None Taking time (coffee) it is 1Hr 12Min.

On the IV!
APP = Approximate.
Techy; it’s 5Hrs 22.2 Minutes
6 hrs is a close proximity!

Give me the figures I’ll give you a Chart. :D
FYI: It takes longer to convert chart to Jpg then it does to make the chart!

I believe the pain and suffering you will endure by not having your morning coffee for 2 additional days will be a good comparison of the bioavailability between the different forms of V-C. :evil:

A Thought!!! :idea:
To blow the FOODY’s out of the water!
How about checking out one of their web sites and see what they say is the highest in their supposed, “REAL V-C.” :?:

Then have yourself, a fruit and veggie breakfast without the coffee and see what it gives us!!

BTW: Make sure you stay close to a Bathroom, if you choose to do this!! :mrgreen:
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12625
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#24  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:28 am

Good ideas - and I will provide the 6 hours of "average" data for you soon.

I am generating all kinds of experiments in my mind's eye... Including an IV today - 10 grams of MSM - simply as a control. To see whether we can show that not every IV creates these high Libre readings... Who knows, experiment will tell. (Per another topic, we now have another MSM powder that I hope won't clog a 0.2 micron IV filter... )

Ideas for Future Libre Experiments:

10 grams IV/MSM - As control. (Testing micofilter and hoping not to see any rise in Libre)

10 grams oral Ascorbic Acid (over 6 hours) - to compare with the IV/C

10 grams of oral Liposomal Vitamin C (over 8 hours)... Will start with Panacea, and then try Livon Lab's Lypo-C in experiment 2

10 grams of oral Conquer (with Maitake D'Fraction)

10 grams of oral Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate (MAP)

10 grams of IV/Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate (MAP)

10 grams IV/MAP 10 grams IV/MSM together... (Question whether MSM creates higher levels of vitamin C in the fluids - or maybe lower as cells take it in faster with MSM? One problem is that 10 grams of vitamin C reaches highest level Libre can read..)

10 grams oral MAP and 10 grams oral MSM

I might as well give up coffee.. heh?

I can also see why Diabetes expert Richard Bernstein "hates" vitamin C. I looked up the most "accurate" glucose monitors - and Accucheck seemed to be the best over a widest range.. So ordered their nano - but the first readings either failed (errors) or were way high from the Libre.. Hoping they would be LOWER to help me figure out how much of my own reading is due to my high vitamin C intake. On my list to call them.. Still looking for a reader that only measures glucose - does not react to vitamin C...

Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12625
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#25  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:14 am

We ran the 10 gram MSM/IV control test yesterday, and the "glucose" numbers never budged - dropped a little, and never rose above baseline. (I'll include the data for completeness, but no graph is required.) OxC once asked if perhaps all IVs caused the high readings. We now know that an ordinary IV won't budge the interstitial meter.

I was on the phone with Accu-check folks, (who chastised me from buying from Amazon.) Their support folks claim their meter is unaffected by vitamin C, and I bought new test strips. Same issue, so now I am thinking the meter is faulty. They are sending me test solutions.

A fellow was having an IV next to me who has been diagnosed with ALS, had his mercury taken out and is detoxing IV ... He had "heard" (from Joe Mercola) that liposomes are so good, he really didn't need IV/C... He started with Livon Labs, but then decided to go with Mercola's Vitamin C liposomes because they "are cheaper." I warned him about what we thought we knew, but he pointed out that he could take 8 grams of Mercola's liposomes - and not have the craps, like he would have if he had taken 8 grams of vitamin C powder. That sounded like a liposomal effect, but then it occurred to me,

what if Mercola's product doesn't have vitamin C?

(More likely, it acts like an emulsion - like kiwi gel or aloe vera - to promote absorption. )

Never ending series of ideas for experiments! Adding a test of 10 grams of Mercola's "liposomes" to the experiment queue.

And this means we can check any product to see whether it has vitamin C, and how well absorbed.. Assuming the guinea pig doesn't mind not having his morning coffee... Which is how we really should be doing this - a CGM on guiness pigs...

.


Code: Select all

10 Gram MSM/IV   (And new powder still clogged the 0.2 micron filter - so have to come up with a plan B to sterilize MSM. DMSO doesn't have the problem.)

BASELINE
Time            Meter Reading
1:.11 p.m.    124 mg/dl
13:48            124
2:09  p.m.     127
2:22  p.m.     126

IV started at 2:26 p.m.  (5 minute intervals)
0     120
5      117
10     113
15     109
20     107
25     108
30      111
35      111
40      111
45      109
50       109
55      110
      Bag Emptied 3:33 p.m.
60       113     
65       112  (IV Ends)
70       110
75        117  (3:43 p.m. -  IV removed, moving around..)
80       117
85        119



110      117

No lunch, hungry, and ate
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12625
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#26  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:28 am

Thank you popnowlin! Jerry wrote a PHP program to adjust the data to a consistent 10 minute interval - for johnwen to do his chart magic.

This would be the IV 10 grams Ascorbate (11.3 grams sodium ascorbate) data every 10 minutes.


Code: Select all

1 150
10 168
20 184
30 279.15384615385
40 351
50 411
60 464
70 496
80 482
90 442
100 398
110 423
120 388
130 360
140 354.25
150 348.5
160 342.75
170 337
180 330.06666666667
190 323.13333333333
200 316.2
210 309.26666666667
220 302.33333333333
230 295.4
240 288.46666666667
250 281.53333333333
260 274.6
270 267.66666666667
280 260.73333333333
290 253.8
300 246.86666666667
310 239.93333333333
320 233
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

Johnwen
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 2012
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#27  Post by Johnwen » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:56 pm

Here’s the two you listed. :D
First is MSM
Second is SA.
I'm open to suggestions if you would like to see any changes, LET me know?? :idea:



Image


Image
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12625
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#28  Post by ofonorow » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:51 am

Thank you johnwen. And to be clear - the above IV reading is interstitial fluids - the Libre. And even after 320 minutes, the "delta" is still higher (between value and baseline) then the original IV graph peak in the blood showed. After 320 minutes, there is still a 83 delta after 320 minutes, where the original peak delta was 75.

But this graph is a little depressing. For me personally.. We can extrapolate that a true test (without coffee) lasts 440 minutes (from 320 minutes) or 7.3 hours.. The line is going down 25 points in 40 minutes, so to drop another 75 points would require another 120 minutes or more than 7+ hours!!?!!

I am planning to do the first Liposomal Vitamin C test tomorrow, and even if I start at 3:00 a.m. - I can't eat drink or be merry until 10:00 a.m., unless we see the same straight line, and who knows, the liposomal C might persist even longer :(
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

ofonorow
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 12625
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Lisle, IL
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#29  Post by ofonorow » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:18 am

Experiment, used syringe to measure 10 grams of our liposomal (10 teaspoons or 50 mL) and added to a half glass of water. The gulp was around 5:00 a.m. Ran the experiment for 4 hours:20 minutes The numbers only dropped. No rise in about 4.5 hours. Leveled off around 110 mg/dl after 2.5 hours... and stayed level until I had to have a cup of coffee. (They were initially high because I ate more food than usual last night, knowing I wouldn't be eating for a while this morning, and I miscalculated the insulin.)

Here are the every 30 minute numbers at 10 grams PANACEA Liposomal gulp

Code: Select all

Time  Measurement
0    184
30  169
60   164
90   150
120  132
150  114
180   101
210   108
240    104

260    110   - stopped after  260 minutes, or



THE ONLY WAY TO DO THE LIPOSOMAL MEASUREMENTS

Assuming the meter can measure vitamin C in liposomes (I remember this discussion got long and involved last time, because of the same issue, we weren't measuring liposomal in the blood either.), then the only way to do this is to take the 10 grams around midnight. Go to bed and wake up around 4:00 a.m. and start measuring then (for perhaps another 4 hours) to see what happens. Maybe tonight.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath
My statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any product mentioned is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

Johnwen
Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard
Posts: 2012
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#30  Post by Johnwen » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:04 pm

To me these readings show that the Lipo you took is very well encapsulated!!

Remember that the V-C is inside a capsule, that is consumed at a cellular level where the capsule is broken down and the V-C is released inside the cells.
Think the candy that looks like a regular chocolate candy and you put it in your mouth and the chocolate breaks down and there’s a cherry or Carmel floating around in your mouth??
Same thing only it’s in the cells mouth!
So if your readings don’t change or drop lower this means the encapsulation is complete and doing it’s job and the RESIDUAL amount of V-C is very low.
I don’t believe waiting will give you much of change in glucose readings either. The Lipo capsules that where not consumed by the cells will probably be removed from the system in a matter of between 2 to 4 hours.
Try Zapping the Lipo’s with some water in a ultrasound for about 5 minutes then drink the mix and see or check the zapped mix with a blood type meter and see if it reads the V-C. That way you’ll know if they in fact contain V-C.

Lipo’s are seen as fats and glucose measuring devices don’t read fats!!

Here’s the chart on this test!!


Image
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!


Return to “General Discussion Topics and Issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 5 guests