Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#46  Post by Johnwen » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:01 pm

Lets clear up a point first.
Without pictures I will use an example you have a tennis ball with 2 strings hanging off of the ball right next to each on the ball at one point.
The ball is hydrophilic meaning goes to water. The strings are hydrophobic meaning they go to fat and repel water. When a liposome form the balls form on both the inside and the outside walls when they cluster together. The tails face each other and form in the space between the outer and inner layer. Which makes both the inner and outer surfaces hydrophilic. These are called a Multilamellar vesicle.
When they are cracked only the balls separate at one point and form a flat sometimes wavy surface thus releasing there contents. The contents then is diluted into the surrounding fluid (water) at this point when sonifaction is removed the spheres will reform but the tail ends that where exposed to water will shed at reformation and the sphere will thus become smaller. It will only capture the diluted solution which is only a fraction of it’s original amount.
In our case of V-C when it is released in short sonifaction it will mix very rapidly with the surrounding water thus diluting it into the surrounding water rapidly. Raising the readable amount in the water.

Now you say You get a reading of V-C just placing it in water!
This tells me you do not have a true, pure Lipo mix.

Which is either a residual content. Ie. Not all the V-C used was encapsulated.

Or you have a emulsion of lipids and V-C. Ie. A V-C cocktail! Most DIY’s.

What I would do at this point is when your Sonic arrives put a dose of this lipo in the cup. With the surrounding water as instructed and NOT in the cup!
An zap it for 2- 30 min. cycles then dilute it in water and do a recheck. This will tell if it’s residual or mix.
If the reading is lower then it was a emulsion, if it’s higher it was residual.

Here’s how residual happens!
Let’s take lecithin and water then give it a long zap this will form a larger sphere Lipo. A MLV (Multilamellar vesicle) meaning it has a outer and inner ring of balls. Since the tails are Hydrophobic they form away from the water.
Now you have to remove most of the water. Such as low heat or low humid conditions.
Now you mix up some V-C in water to be encapsulated. This is done by adding as much V-C to the water as can be dissolved in the water almost to the point of making the mix thick.
Add this to the liposomes and then short say 2min. Zapps let set and do it again a few times. Just remember the more zaps the smaller the spheres will become and less they will hold after releasing their content. Since this done in a high V-C liquid the amount of V-C left as residual will not increase.
You now have encapsulated V-C Liposomes in a V-C fluid residual.
Mix it with some water and drink and you have the best of both worlds working for you!!
You could run it through some nano filters and or capillary filters and have a pure Liposome that would be so expensive no body would buy it!

This is just one method but first is to form the lipo’s then add the product to it. That part doesn’t change if you want a encapsulated a lipo!!

In drug delivery the residual has to be zero on some drugs and no more then 1% on others which means the lipo’s has to be filtered to a point of purity.
In the case of V-C it really doesn’t matter because both forms are beneficial !!
Where an emulsion isn’t really any more beneficial then a regular water V-C and lecithin mix.

Now this cover’s the Lipo’s that can contain water based fluid’s there is a whole field of others that can be used to contain various other type of products. Which is more then what our concerns are here.

I hope I somewhat cleared up these issues for you!!
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#47  Post by ofonorow » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:53 am

I'll have to reread - if we cannot measure vitamin C inside liposomes - then we are wasting our time re: liposomal.
The 2015 argument from Emek Blair, who also worked on the glucose monitors, is that the thin membrane should not interfere with the reading.
And from the early measurements, the lack of "foot print" implies either high encapsulation or no vitamin C.

So here is the baseline from last night - after the superbowl..

Image
Probably ate more food, later. The drop is from my insulin before going to bed. Sugars seemed to go lower than usual and stay there for 2 hours, but then started rising (unexpectedly) for 4 hours. So either my body was releasing corticosteroids... shooot... I know what happened. I have experienced joint pain since I stopped the 10 g of vitamin B5 (for about a week). Last night it was especially worrisome - and I took 1/2 (4 mg) of methyl prednisilone forgetting that I was also doing the baseline.. You'll never guess what time? 3:00 a.m. So any baseline is prior to 3:00 a.m., (might have been 1:00 a.m., sigh. I'll redo this.

Added after rereading

It will only capture the diluted solution which is only a fraction of it’s original amount.
In our case of V-C when it is released in short sonifaction it will mix very rapidly with the surrounding water thus diluting it into the surrounding water rapidly. Raising the readable amount in the water.


Ahh.. I think I see.. the water the liposomes are added to will dilute them.. So, drinking 10 grams (with some now in the solution) should appear as a spike in interstitial fluids on the reader (if the residual C acts like ordinary vitamin C). Too bad I have to eat, drink and be merry. I could be running these tests all day long..

I also wish there was a good way to test a control solution. Every time I try to use a drop - I get an error (usually Err 3 on the FreeStyle Lite) but if I stick my finger in the solution, and then test the moisture still on my finger - I can get a reading. (This may be why distilled water still reported 105 mg/dl - sweat or something from my finger.)
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#48  Post by Johnwen » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:06 pm

Ok I see what you are thinking! :idea:

What you have to do is come up with a ratio of water to Lipo to bring the residual to the range of your meter.
Then you can use this ratio for further testing on this particular product.

Example:
Place a measuring cup on your scale and zero the reading, making the cup the tare weight. Then add say 10 grams Lipo! Then remove the cup, lipo combo from the scale and add Say 2 oz of water on the cups fluid oz’s lines and test if still HIGH then add another 2 oz. making it 4 oz’s total mix up and read and so on! Till you get around mid range reading on your meter which should be @ 200-250! Then zap it as above post and then read and see which way the readings go.

Another point I believe your missing is that the lipo’s stay in your blood the same way cholesterol does until it’s taken into the cells the same way as cholesterol and then the shell is broken inside the cell and the product is released inside the cell. Therefore, in the case of a pure Lipo that has been extensively filtered and purified with zero residual you will not see any changes in the blood levels of the product.
So if your seeing a change in blood levels it’s would be the residual V-C that is floating around!!

The one place a change may take place is if the Lipo’s were not taken into the cells and went back to the liver where they will be either disposed of through the GI system or broken down by the liver. Thus being a water based product, will be sent out to the blood stream and then picked up by the kidney’s where the water would be separated from the V-C and the V-C will either stored or released and the water part would go off to the bladder.

The only difference between a V-C Liposome and a cholesterol molecule other then size Which is the Lipo is usually larger, is that the cholesterol is carrying fat so it only a single layer (the strings go to fat as previous post thus balls out, strings facing fat product) were the V-C Lipo is carrying a water based product ( it has to have the balls facing the product, balls on the outside and inside strings facing each other). On the outside they both look the same and are used in the same manner!
Techy;
V-C Lipsome is a Multilamellar vesicle (Double layer)
Cholesterol is a Micelle (single layer)
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#49  Post by ofonorow » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:53 pm

The things we do for God and country.

Drank a half-liter of sonically oscillated water + Panacea (liposomes). The first 250 mL wasn't too bad, but that last 100 mL was a little tough! (550 mL total - 500 mL distilled water and 50mL of Panacea) In theory, I just drank 10 grams of vitamin C.

The experiment is designed to show the product has vitamin C, and that outside its capsule, it registers in the interstitial fluid more on the order of a gulp of regular ascorbic acid.

Started at 1:20 pm CST (probably finished the gulp around 1:21 Baseline was 131, 134 and 131 at minute zero. 127 at minute 5.... test running)

PROCEDURE:

Removed the cage, added water to the cleaner (closer to Max than Min)
Placed the 500 mL glass jar in plastic holder in the ultrasound cleaner
Added 250 mL of distilled water to the jar in the cleaner.
Measured 10 syringes (total of 50 mL) of PANACEA and added each to the jar in the cleaner
Added another 250 mL of distilled water, which filled up the jar.

Set the cleaner to run for 30 minutes. Started.
Gave it a rest
Set the cleaner for another 30 minutes (total one hour). Started.

Checked my baselines, and gulped starting around 1:20 p.m.

The consistency and color was much different after the ultrasound 1 hour treatment. Less viscous and the color turned pale, almost green yellow.

After 25 minutes, my "sugar" has dropped to 109, ( makes sense since I've add about a half liter to my body fluids, so the same amount of "glucose" would be at a lower concentration. Probably why people with very high blood sugar get so thirsty...)

Code: Select all

Baseline  131, 134

Minute    Reading (Interstitial)
0             131
5             127
10            120
15            113
20            110
25            109
30            111
35            114
40            116
45            122
50            130
55            130
60             129
65            131
70             131
75             130
80             134
85              136
90             135
95              134
100            134
105            131
110            132
115            132
120             133
125             133
130              129
135             131
140              129
145              128
150              1


Basically, after the initial drop - flat???? I'll post a picture later - just before I get hungry enough to have to eat
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#50  Post by Johnwen » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:10 am

This is all good BUT you forgot one key move!!
You didn’t test the PRODUCT!! :shock:

WHAT I SAID:

Example:
Place a measuring cup on your scale and zero the reading, making the cup the tare weight. Then add say 10 grams Lipo! Then remove the cup, lipo combo from the scale and add Say 2 oz of water on the cups fluid oz’s lines and test if still HIGH then add another 2 oz. making it 4 oz’s total mix up and read and so on! Till you get around mid range reading on your meter which should be @ 200-250! Then zap it as above post and then read and see which way the readings go.


What were trying to get here is a reading on the product by bring it down to a diluted range that’s readable on your meter! Then zapping it to see which way it goes from there. This then tells what we are dealing with!

Now with the color changes you seen and the affect we see on your Libre readings.
My assumption is the product you checked is a emulsion AKA; “
Mix!”

Since your insulin levels are held pretty constant by your meds.
The Glucose changes as an effect of your intake also indicates that once this product was zapped it completed or did the encapsulation.
The front part of your test that shows the drop on initial consumption which is consistent with a intake of a Fats!

Remember, “Liposomes, which was derived by the combination of two Greek words, “Lipos” meaning,” FAT” and “Soma” meaning, “BODY“.”

This is also contrary to what was seen in the test you did just consuming the product without sonifacation! Which raised your glucose levels!!

However without the read of the product this cannot be confirmed a 100%!!

Image
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#51  Post by ofonorow » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:25 am

The reason for not testing first - is because I don't have a good way (or many more test strips - they are on order.) Once I get a good reliable way to test a control solution, I'll do it, but this time I was hoping to use my body as the test device... didn't work at all...

Image

So what happened? I am pretty much stumped.

The numbers dropped, I assume from dilution. Then 30 minutes into the experiment, just like the vitamin C powder tests, the "sugar" rose indicating some C had reached the interstitial fluids. All is well, except the numbers never rose like the vitamin C powder (which I plan to rerun in full - for 8 hours).

Why would it matter whether it started as an emulsion? The residual C should be more available for measuring correct?

Why did the readings rise after 30 minutes? Especially if there was no vitamin C? (Previously, I did crudely measure the product in a control solution)

Why did they level off? Some kind of steady state? Could the sonification have failed? Perhaps the liposomes never opened, or the C was stuck to the liposomes and didn't release? However, after 30 minutes, it was more like the Mercola footprint than the original Panacea footprint. (A baseline couldn't be as straight line.)

Again, this is Panacea - a product that anecdotally has the 10-time IV/C property visa vi infection. Its amazing. If it doesn't have vitamin C, then that would mean: the 3-day mono cases are from the "placebo" effect, the PhosphoLipids are the active ingredient, and the post-GMP testing missed the fact that the product is missing vitamin C... All unlikely... The best bet is that these are class-act phosopholipid liposomes - and hard to crack..

I'll work on testing the solution - before and after sonification. Something about the phospholipids is affecting either the meter, the flow into the interstitial fluids, or the release from the GI Tract.. Maybe we did something that made the primary target the liver!


Added

I can think of one thing.. This might look more like a sodium ascorbate plot.. rather than an instantaneous ascorbic acid plot. Perhaps the "stickiness" of even opened liposomes is such as to prevent the vitamin C from passing through the stomach lining. Instead of the 3 minute into the blood stream, it passes down the GI tract.. But if open - the C is subject to be destroyed... (I might be able to test this by adding some lysine - to chelate per Sherry Lewin.)
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#52  Post by Johnwen » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:10 pm

Your Missing one very very Important part of the whole test and I explained that above in post # 48. That being this ! :?

Another point I believe your missing is that the lipo’s stay in your blood the same way cholesterol does until it’s taken into the cells the same way as cholesterol and then the shell is broken inside the cell and the product is released inside the cell. Therefore, in the case of a pure Lipo that has been extensively filtered and purified with zero residual you will not see any changes in the blood levels of the product.
So if your seeing a change in blood levels it’s would be the residual V-C that is floating around!!


It appears that you got the idea that Lipo’s break down when they enter the blood stream. Well there are Lipo’s that do just that they are polymer lipo’s and they are expensive! They are not what we are making here!

Remember! You are consuming capsules of V-C that DO NOT get broken down in the blood stream and must be taken into the Cells for use/breakage. If you take Lipo’s which look like FAT to the body you are Blocking glucose from entering the blood and glucose levels will drop till the fat molecules have entered the system. Most studies I have seen on this subject show a lowering of about 12.5% in glucose levels from 1-3 Hrs. after just fat consumption!

Which is what was seen is 10.9% Drop in your last test For a period of about 2 hours then started returning back to previous levels.
Look at the chart from 10 min. to 115min. Is consistent and typical of Non saturated fat intake!

Image

So from what I seen here is that from the original product you consumed to the product that you consumed after zapping, they have changed from a emulsion to a lipo delivery system!! Testing of the product itself would give us a much better picture of what we have!!
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#53  Post by ofonorow » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:57 pm

Johnwen wrote:Your Missing one very very Important part of the whole test and I explained that above in post # 48. That being this ! :?

Another point I believe your missing is that the lipo’s stay in your blood the same way cholesterol does until it’s taken into the cells the same way as cholesterol and then the shell is broken inside the cell and the product is released inside the cell. Therefore, in the case of a pure Lipo that has been extensively filtered and purified with zero residual you will not see any changes in the blood levels of the product.
So if your seeing a change in blood levels it’s would be the residual V-C that is floating around!!


Confusing. This implies that vitamin C inside a capsule/liposomes cannot be read. I thought the idea was to BREAK the liposomes, even temporarily, allowing the vitamin to disperse to the new liquid, so even if the liposomes reform after the sonification - there would be more residual?

And more residual would mean lasting longer in the interstitial fluids - like ordinary vitamin C powder.

First thing to settle is whether vitamin C in the blood can be detected by the meter - whether inside the capsule or not. True or False?

If it can, and Emek said it can, and my tests say it can, then the choleterol-like capsules can be measured, so they are not in the fluids - at least for long.

Second, if it is an emulsion, why would it matter where the vitamin C is released? The definition of emulsion is mostly residual, correct? None of the lipo tests is seeing much if any residual.

So rethinking the control test.

#1 Obtain reading of known concentration of liposomal added to water.
#2 Run the ultrasound on the known concentration
#3 Obtain reading of the known concentration of liposomal after the ultrasound.

What will this prove?

Case Liposomes Before/Liposomes after - readings the same
Liposomes Before/Emulsions after - readings the same (unless meter cannot read vit C inside liposomes)
Emulsion Before/Liposomes after - readings the same (unless meter cannot read vit C inside liposomes)

Most likely the readings will be the same.

If meter does detect different - when vitamin C is inside/versus outside

Before < After should mean Emulsion created by ultrasound
Before > After would mean Emulsion was turned into liposomes





It appears that you got the idea that Lipo’s break down when they enter the blood stream. Well there are Lipo’s that do just that they are polymer lipo’s and they are expensive! They are not what we are making here!

Remember! You are consuming capsules of V-C that DO NOT get broken down in the blood stream and must be taken into the Cells for use/breakage.


...and you have the idea that the meter cannot measure vitamin C encapsulated in liposomes. I don't think it matters where it is broken down, but if it breaks down prior - then we should expect to see the vitamin C building in the interstitial fluids.

If you take Lipo’s which look like FAT to the body you are Blocking glucose from entering the blood and glucose levels will drop till the fat molecules have entered the system. Most studies I have seen on this subject show a lowering of about 12.5% in glucose levels from 1-3 Hrs. after just fat consumption!


Not sure I follow - taking fat can lower the glycemic index? And perhaps something like this is happening...

Which is what was seen is 10.9% Drop in your last test For a period of about 2 hours then started returning back to previous levels.
Look at the chart from 10 min. to 115min. Is consistent and typical of Non saturated fat intake!
. . .

So from what I seen here is that from the original product you consumed to the product that you consumed after zapping, they have changed from a emulsion to a lipo delivery system!! Testing of the product itself would give us a much better picture of what we have!!

Highly doubtful. I think your references/documentation has taught me that the right phosopholipid material will naturally form liposomes, even from hand shaking. PANACEA has the right phospholipids - not lecithin, and it has light scattering testing that indicate they are 150 nanometers. The anecdotal results are fantastic. Everything points to PANACEA being real liposomes. No idea what happened after 1 hour of ultrasound.

I think it is more likely that the sonification did nothing to the liposomes.

I'll measure the liposomal before/after ultrasound.. Wish there was a good way to do that.

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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#54  Post by ofonorow » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:09 pm

Check my math.

Looking for 100 to 200 mg/dl vitamin C concentration (using PANACEA liposomal)

1 Syringe is 5 ML (1 teaspoon) and is supposed to provide 1000 mg vitamin C.

1000 mg/1000 Ml is 100 mg / 100 mL or 100 mg/dl.

However the jar that fits in the ultrasound is 1/2 liter or 500 mL.

So 1000 mg/500 mL is 200 mg/dl.

Thus, instead of 10 grams (10,000 mg) that I ate yesterday, this is 1/10 the strength.

we can use the top of a plastic spoon after stirring (rather than finger) to take the measurement. (If I tried to take the measurement out of the bowl, I always get ER3. So I stir and take the reading from the little moisture remaining on the other side of spoon.)

Baseline - expecting 200 mg/dl "glucose" I got these readings

352 mg/dl
ER3
356 mg/dl

Since this was close to the maximum/high on the FreeStyle Lite Meter, decided to follow Johnwen's advice and dilute by another 100 mL (or Deciliter) So the concentration was 1000 mg/ 600 mL - which barely fit into the jar.

So in theory the new concentration in terms of "glucose" is 166 mg/dl

Step #1: New Baseline before the Ultrasound

Only 1 ER3
317
343
297 Low
342
333
342
339
339
355 High
344

Average (throwing out the high and the low) = 337.375 mg/dl (in terms of glucose) Range 38: i.e. error +- 19

Step #2: Place jar in ultrasound for 30 minutes.

Decided to check again 2 ER3

292 Low
340
308
320
334 High

Average (throwing out the high and the low) = 320.666 Range 42, i.e. error +-21?

Difference in averages (337 - 320) is 17, or with
Step #3: Place jar in ultrasound for another 30 minutes. (Total 1 hour)

5 ER3
314
239 low
334 high
327
299
328
328
320
314
321


Average (throwing out the high and the low) = 318.875 Range 95, i.e. error +-47?

RESULTS
Baseline Ave 337
30 minutes Ave 320
60 minutes Ave 318

So while there may have been a minor decrease in measured vitamin C - well within error (given that the concentration didn't change, yet the meter was all over the place.)

The best view is that there is no change. And that, again, the meter can measure the vitamin -- presumably in liposomes.

Ran out of test strips, or would try the same concentration of vitamin C powder. However, we already know that sodium ascorbate control solution measures MUCH differently than the same amount of ascorbate as ascorbic acid. (One of our earlier mysteries)

Where does this leave us?
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#55  Post by Johnwen » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:54 am

I’m going to be away till probably Friday night.
Please read my post #48 on this thread, a lot of what your asking is answered in there if you give it some thought.
When things settle down I’ll attempt to address your questions then.
For now, get your feet wet with these. Because you seem to missing some basic points on Liposomes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_bilayer

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK26871/

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Structura ... /Liposomes

In the last link pay attention to the, “Synthesis section.”
It should answer at least one of your questions.
I also addressed this in my post #46 size means, how much it will hold and how much will be left over as residual when you make a larger one smaller!!
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#56  Post by ofonorow » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:04 am

Have a good trip. I'll reread, but the issue is moot if we can read vitamin C inside liposomes, which we apparently can. We can't determine anything about them other than they are present in the interstitial fluids, (from the C they carry.) Last night I gulped 10 grams of ultrafine ascorbic acid at 10:40 pm. And here is the entire footprint of that ascorbic acid gulp.

Image

Gulp at 10:39 p.m. Sugar was high 184 mg/dl at the start, but had been dropping from my before bed insulin.

Like the other measurements, the sugar leveled and then dropped from 10:40 p.m. to a little after midnight, but then started its straight line ascent.

The "sugar" peaked at 225 mg/dl at 3:00 a.m. (225 number from the Libre software) or almost 5 hours after the gulp. Again the rise was over 4 hours.

Then it began its decline, and after 8 hours had dropped to 173.. The event was about +75 mg/dl (from the low) and +40 (from the baseline) over 8 hours.

While waiting for johnwen to return and comment... The next experiments will be of the control solutions with both sodium ascorbate and ascorbic acid. (The evidence is building that the FreeStyle reading is about double the concentration of vitamin C. This may help us with the uMol calculations.)

Also plan to run these nightly 8 hours runs with

Sodium Ascorbate
Livon Labs Lypo-C
Gordon's Bio-Energy C (with MSM)



Added - rereading post #46

What I would do at this point is when your Sonic arrives put a dose of this lipo in the cup. With the surrounding water as instructed and NOT in the cup!


I didn't do this - but it cannot be done. The concentration is way too high for the reader, and has to be diluted about 10 to 1 (water to lipo). So I had to put water in the cup. I suppose I could do what you suggest, just oscillate the lipo without water, and then add it to 600 mL, to take the reading. And the point of doing this is? It only makes sense if there is a difference reading vitamin C inside versus outside the capsule.
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#57  Post by ofonorow » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:48 pm

Revised - actually the liposomal did better (in terms of delta or change in blood "sugar" than the powder. If you see the photo of the lab, this is the newest version.

RESULTS WITH TEST SOLUTIONS.

All NEW Free Style Lite test strips

Test #1 - Water (using plastic spoon instead of finger. 600 mL)

No reading (this time on droplet on plastic spoon).
Meter 1 Meter 2
Err3 Err1
Err3 Err1

Test #2 - 1 g (5 mL) PANACEA Lipo in sonic cleaner for 70 minutes (did not add to water in the cup per johnwens suggestion)
After 70 minutes, added vibrated lipo to 600 mL of distilled water.

Meter 1 Meter 2
289 227
268 281
ER3
285
ER3
ER3

Note: Because of the errors, started using a second meter. Simple Ave. 266.25

Test #3 - 1 g (5 mL) PANACEA Lipo - without vibration added to 600 mL distilled water. Only difference between Test #2 and #3 is that the liposomes were in ultrasound for Test #2.

Meter 1 Meter 2
277 ER3
274 277
288

Simple Ave. 276.5

Test #4 1 g ultrafine ascorbic acid powder added to 600 mL distilled water

Meter 1 Meter 2

281 220
ER3 ER3
323 Hi 265
271
285
216 Low

Ave after discarding low/hi 264.4

Test #5 - 1.13 g Sodium Ascorbate powder added to 600 mL distilled water

Meter 1 Meter 2
ER3 ER3
ER3 ER3
ER3 264
ER3
291

Simple ave. 277

DISCUSSION

Control solution: 1 gram of ascorbate - in liposomes, or as aa or sa is measured in 600 mL water the same. Ultrasound didn't change this.

The reason for the water reading using my finger was probably sweat. So no reading (ER1) measuring water (no ascorate) on spoon.

Felt lucky to only get 2 readings with sodium ascorbate. Harder. (Maybe pH difference, but still came out to the ball park of all other measurements.)

There is no material difference in the readings between PANACEA sonicized/utrasound and regular. We can measure the vitamin C regardless.

The ER3 (test strip error) happens when too much water is collected, the bubble is too large. Learned what the right amount (trace amount) looks like on the spoon.

The measured vitamin C for all varieties, liposomal, aa and sa are in the ball park. The average of the averages: 271.0375 (So for now, a concentration of vitamin of 166 mg/dl ascorbate creates a Freestyle reading of 271.0375 mg/dl

From crunching the numbers, the plots were foolers to the naked eye. If the numbers below are correct, the liposomal actually rose blood sugars more than the powder.. Looking at the original Panacea plot (+100) and the AA Gulp (+75).

Both plots below for comparison.
100 110, 200
10 G Panacea - Baseline 110, Low 100, High 200: +90 from baseline, +100 from low
Image

10 G AA Power - Baseline 185, Low 150, High 225 +40 from baseline, +75 from low - over 8 hours
Image

Apparently, the liposomal did BETTER but we didn't notice it.


Image
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#58  Post by Johnwen » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:21 am

It seems your all over the place on this because somewhere you got the idea that lipo’s breakdown in the blood!
I’ve seen this in some adds for their product However the truth be told, “This Is Not How Liposomes Work!!”
Their purpose is to deliver a product directly to the cells where the cells break it open and the inner contents are taken into the cells and the capsule is blended with the outer core of the targeted cell.
I’m going to post some short video’s from those who either have a vested interest in selling a product or just educating.

These are all short (1 or 2min. Videos) except the last one which is about 15min and on this, the video is used as background for what’s being said!
And for about a minute during the interview, there is some overlapping sound. Which I believe was a OPPS!

SO, Turn on the sound and see the real story!

First a competitor;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8IxHtHEVY

Your Buddy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSCv5_41j88

Cancer Cell theology using Liposomes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UjH5dgWl8M

Dr. Emek Blair; this a long 15min. video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLBbdaFlGko

At about the 10min mark is one of the things I believe is confusing to some people and would be taken as you maintain V-C levels in the blood.

When it actuality, is meaning that the liposomes capsules that contain the V-C stay in the blood longer in the blood stream making it have more Bioavailability to enter the cells. Then would be the case with regular consumption of water and V-C! NOT that the Liposomes release it’s contents in the blood! Ie; More of it hangs around in the Blood to be used, then regular consumption of V-C would!

Now lets get back to what your trying to check here and why your not getting any kind of usable data!
First you quoted only part of what I posted and said you cannot do this! That being this;

What I would do at this point is when your Sonic arrives put a dose of this lipo in the cup. With the surrounding water as instructed and NOT in the cup!


Which is not what this test was for! If you would have read the full section which is.

What I would do at this point is when your Sonic arrives put a dose of this lipo in the cup. With the surrounding water as instructed and NOT in the cup!
An zap it for 2- 30 min. cycles then dilute it in water and do a recheck. This will tell if it’s residual or mix.
If the reading is lower then it was a emulsion, if it’s higher it was residual.


I posted this along with the rest to check the levels of residue existing and get a basic idea of how much water is needed to establish a readable dilution!
Since then you posted about the high amount of surrounding V-C so then the way to establish a readable solution was what I posted in post #48. That being this!

Example:
Place a measuring cup on your scale and zero the reading, making the cup the tare weight. Then add say 10 grams Lipo! Then remove the cup, lipo combo from the scale and add Say 2 oz of water on the cups fluid oz’s lines and test if still HIGH then add another 2 oz. making it 4 oz’s total mix up and read and so on! Till you get around mid range reading on your meter which should be @ 200-250! Then zap it as above post and then read and see which way the readings go.


After completing the dilution part you have established known quantities that are readable on your meter then testing it for a reaction to the sonifacation. This way your not wasting test strips and Lipo in the process.
Right now all I see is figures that have no base or bearing to the percentage of change that is happening or what set volumes of testing is justifying the readings. Just random shots in the dark, per se.

So the thing that needs to be done if you wish to continue is establish a base and check.
Then add the actions to the base amounts and check for variations! :D
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#59  Post by ofonorow » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:59 am

In review, the baseline fooled (at least) me, in that liposomal did raise the delta more than the gulp of AA powder.

The foot prints (in the interstitial fluids) were the same.. drop for 2 hours, rise for 4 hours, then drop for 2 hours.

And that all forms, liposomal, AA powder, and SA powder, registered the same reading on the FreeStyle Lite meter during extensive calibration testing.

Here is the 10 packet (10 g) gulp of Livon Lab's Lyposheric vitamin C from last night.

Image

Test started at 11:30 p.m. with a baseline around 141, 136. The high was 171 (according to the libre software) so the Livon delta was +30 from baseline. Same basic footprint, except this time the baseline was the low. It rose until 3:30 a.m. (4 hours), leveled off for 1.5 to 2 hours, and then started dropping for 2.5 to 2 hours. Area under the curve probably higher, even though peak is lower (better absorption into tissues?)

Scoring so far (8 hour overnight tests)

10 g Panacea Liposomal +90 (+100) Baseline 110, Low 100, High 200: +90 from baseline, +100 from low
10 g AA ultrafine powder: +40 (+75) Baseline 185, Low 150, High 225 +40 from baseline, +75 from low
10 g Livon Lypo-C +35 (+35) Baseline 136 Low 136 High 171, +35 from low/baseline

I don't see how these tests can say anything about liposomes - or where they may drop their payload - except that vitamin C does appear in the interstitial fluids.


To the last post

It seems your all over the place on this because somewhere you got the idea that lipo’s breakdown in the blood!

No, i don't know where or how they break down. And you seem to have the idea that they cannot be measured until
they are broken down. I think the calibration testing proves vitamin C can be measured inside their lipid capsules just fine.


Now lets get back to what your trying to check here and why your not getting any kind of usable data!


I beg to disagree! It is messy because I am recording everything, even the mistakes, but the calibrations, especially on the plain AA powder, SA powder and the liposomal that has not been through ultrasound did come out well enough to draw some conclusions: THE READINGS ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME - VITAMIN C AS POWDER OR VITAMIN C IN LIPOSOMES (OR IN AN EMULSION.)

Then going back and looking at the Libre graphs, I noticed that I had been fooled because of the higher baseline. (Also I was expecting to see something closer to the IV/C) Focusing only the change, the delta, Panacea actually created a higher delta than the AA powder.

Now we get to the purpose of adding the ultrasound - trying to break the liposomes to see whether this measures any difference. First I put
the 10 grams in the middle cup and ran the ultrasound for 60 minutes. Then, yes, I did not follow your complete procedure, and just ran the
ultrasound against the lipo in the cup.

In both cases, there was a slight difference before/after ultrasound, which can be explained by error, and is why I used so many test strips. High and low all over the place.

I can run the complete ultrasound procedure, but to what end? Since we can read the vitamin C encapsulated, breaking the capsules should not change the calibration readings. Ergo, we would not know from the reading whether there is encapsulation or not.
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Re: Continuous Glucose Monitor - Says it is affected by High Dose Vitamin C

Post Number:#60  Post by Johnwen » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:17 pm

No, i don't know where or how they break down. And you seem to have the idea that they cannot be measured until
they are broken down. I think the calibration testing proves vitamin C can be measured inside their lipid capsules just fine.


They cannot be measured in the body even after they are broken down because they are taken into the cells!
What you are reading is the emulsion of High Concentration of V-C that the product [Lipo’s] is bath in.
Your meter showed you that the fluid it’s in is unreadable because of the High amount of V-C in it giving you the error readings when testing it.
So in reality like I said before when you take this product into the body you are getting the best of both world’s . Your getting a good dose of regular V-C which we know has many benefits and your getting the lasting benefit of the lipo’s which are feeding the cells and remaining in the system for use for up to 10x longer then the V-C that is in the surrounding fluids.

So you are going to see spikes on taking the Lipo combo because your body is treating it just like a regular gulp would but the residual effects of the lipo’s is not going to be seen but they are there working in the background of your meter and body!!

This is why when testing the product breakdown in the ultrasound you have to dilute a known amount of the Lipo product down to a point where it’s readable then zapping it to release what’s in the lipo’s an see if there is a change, preferably a rise. From that you can calculate the % of benefit this product will give a person.

The next question is did you even take the time to watch those video’s because you will find out how a lipo works in the body???

So all these tests tell me is your comparing apples to apples and not getting the real picture!!’


In both cases, there was a slight difference before/after ultrasound,


Exactly what were looking for! Because we don’t know the % of lipo’s in the mix, by using a known amount and diluting the mix to a known level you then can see which product gives the highest rise which would indicate it had a higher % of Lipo’s to begin with.

A drop in the reading even minor would indicate the process used didn’t utilize all the lipo’s in the mix. Being that when zapped they encapsulated the surrounding fluids even though the capsules where becoming smaller this would still cause a lowering of the concentration of V-C in the surrounding fluids.

If the % of lipo’s were high to begin with, the capsules would thus break and release the content’s into the surrounding fluid and as lipo’s became smaller (breaking and reassembling) the surrounding fluid would still remain higher then the beginning reading!

So we know the surrounding fluid is high in V-C and taking it acts just like regular consumption of a V-C mix but what goes on in the background is what’s providing the benefits outside of what just regular V-C in the system can provide!
Finding out who has the most of the background material is the key to these experiments!
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