New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

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Joanna45
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New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

Post Number:#1  Post by Joanna45 » Sun May 13, 2018 7:40 am

DAVID GREENE, HOST:

Sepsis, or blood poisoning, is the nation's third-leading cause of death. Researchers now say they've developed a treatment that has been remarkably effective. Here's NPR's Richard Harris.

RICHARD HARRIS, BYLINE: One January day two years ago, Dr. Paul Marik was running the emergency room at a hospital in Norfolk, Va., when a desperately ill woman came in.

PAUL MARIK: We had this 48-year-old woman who previously had been reasonably healthy but came in with rapid, overwhelming sepsis.

HARRIS: Sepsis is a severe form of inflammation often triggered by an infection and frequently deadly.

MARIK: Her kidneys weren't working. Her lungs weren't working. And it was absolutely clear to me that she was going to die. In a situation like this, you start kind of thinking out of the box.

HARRIS: Marik had recently read a research report from scientists at Virginia Commonwealth University which found that intravenous vitamin C helped their patients with sepsis. He figured, what the heck? And he threw in some steroids and another vitamin for good measure.

MARIK: I was expecting that the next morning when I came to work, she would be dead. And really, when I walked in the next morning, I got the shock of my life.

HARRIS: The woman quickly recovered. Marik, at the Eastern Virginia Medical School, tried it in two more patients - same happy result. And 47 more - four of those patients died, he reports in the journal Chest. But they died from diseases that sent them to the hospital in the first place.

MARIK: The remarkable thing is not a single patient died from sepsis.

HARRIS: Especially remarkable considering that sepsis usually kills about a third of all patients who develop it. The study lacked the typical checks. There was no control group. Doctors and nurses knew who was getting the treatment. But the results were enough to change the way Marik treats sepsis.

MARIK: Now every single patient who is admitted, you know, without exception, gets it.

HARRIS: And by his informal tally, of 150 patients to date, only one has died from sepsis. I asked Dr. Craig Coopersmith at Emory University how big a deal this is.

CRAIG COOPERSMITH: If it turns out, on further studies, that this is true and we can validate it, then this will be an unbelievably huge deal. But right now, it should be viewed as a preliminary deal that needs to be validated.

HARRIS: There have been hundreds of studies of sepsis, many of them which seemed promising at first. But no drug has survived the more carefully controlled follow-up studies. Billions of dollars have been spent looking for a solution that might in fact end up being a mix of inexpensive ingredients.

Richard Harris, NPR News.

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Re: New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

Post Number:#2  Post by Joanna45 » Mon May 14, 2018 1:48 pm

Here is some more info on the studies that are going to be put in clinical trials

That evidence could come from two large studies now underway in the United States. Both are being conducted according to the gold standard of medical science: Some patients get the treatment, others get a placebo, and neither the patients nor doctors know who gets what.

The stakes are enormous, given the number of people who die of sepsis.

"This is something which, if proved to be true, would be a game-changer, almost a miracle cure, honestly," says Dr. Craig Coopersmith, a critical care surgeon at Emory University and a member of the team running one of the two sepsis studies, the VICTAS Study.

Doctor Turns Up Possible Treatment For Deadly Sepsis
SHOTS - HEALTH NEWS
Doctor Turns Up Possible Treatment For Deadly Sepsis
Planning research like this takes significant effort and funding. The effort involved figuring out which patients would be included and orchestrating patient care and data collection from 24 to 40 different hospitals. Competitive grants through the National Institutes of Health often take years to land, so instead this trial reached out to the Marcus Foundation in Atlanta (funded by family members of the Home Depot fortune).

"We've all been pretty much working 24/7 on this for the past three to five months," says Dr. Richard Rothman, a professor of emergency medicine at the Johns Hopkins hospital in Baltimore, who is a leader of the VICTAS study.

Marik has a biologically plausible explanation for how his protocol could work. He says the sepsis reaction generates large amounts of a damaging molecule called reactive oxygen, which vitamin C neutralizes.

When Marik published his protocol in early 2017, Coopersmith was in the wait-and-see camp. But as he became involved in planning the study, he decided to get some hands-on experience with the protocol, working with patients in his hospital.

Some patients he treated with it died. But he also tells the story of a man who was "so sick that we actually had to flip him upside down to get enough oxygen into his body," Coopersmith says. "His kidneys had failed. His liver wasn't working, his bone marrow wasn't working and statistically his chance of dying was nearly 100 percent."

Coopersmith gave the man the Marik cocktail and his condition quickly reversed. Six days later he was off of the ventilator that had been keeping him breathing, and on the seventh day he was well enough to leave the intensive care unit.

"We would call it a miracle cure," Coopersmith says. "What we don't know is [whether] he was going to get better independent of the vitamin C, steroids and thiamine — or did that make him better."

Synergy Between Nurses And Automation Could Be Key To Finding Sepsis Early
SHOTS - HEALTH NEWS
Synergy Between Nurses And Automation Could Be Key To Finding Sepsis Early
The answer to that question will be informed by the VICTAS study. The study will soon be enrolling hundreds of patients in Atlanta, Baltimore, Marik's hospital in Norfolk, and up to three dozen other hospitals. (The exact number of study sites will depend on how quickly the early ones are able to recruit patients.)

At the same time, doctors at the Harvard-affiliated Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center are launching another large study, involving 13 hospitals. They got a $3 million grant from the Open Philanthropy Project to study the Marik protocol.

"Our goal is to complete this trial within a year from now," says Dr. Michael Donnino, who is leading that study. As of the end of April, he had enrolled 11 patients at his hospital. Hospitals in New York state and Michigan launched the study at their institutions this week.

The parallel studies will help make whatever answer emerges all the more credible, Donnino says. Reproducibility is the keystone of science.

"Having another trial out there I think is great," he says.

Both research trials have outside experts sitting on boards that will monitor data and safety; they will periodically take a peek at the accumulating data. If the results are as dramatic as Marik gets in his hospital — or on the other hand clearly futile — the studies could be called off early.

"And either way, it will change practice across the United States and across the world," Coopersmith says. He guesses that around 10-20 percent of intensive-care specialists are currently using the Marik cocktail.

There's reason for both optimism and for caution. There have been more than 100 studies of proposed treatments for sepsis over the years, and previous results that seemed promising at first flopped after further examination. But the potential upside is beguiling: a lifesaving treatment that's affordable.

"It's not going to be the equivalent of a new drug in cancer or hepatitis, which costs $50,000 to $100,000 and you have to make the decision if insurance doesn't cover it, whether or not to mortgage the house and give away your inheritance," Coopersmith says. "This is something that's going to be very, very cheap and accessible throughout the world."

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Re: New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Wed May 16, 2018 3:57 am

Thank you for the post. When I read and think about this, the idea that cortisol for IV production may have been deliberately sabotaged is not beyond the realm of possibility. The Marik protocol is a severe economic threat to the financing of most hospitals.

For those who don't know, I was in the hospital trying to evaluate my own cortisol requirements, when two bad vials of Solu-Cortef (hydrocortisone) were given to me. I think the odds are very small, unless this is a wide-spread problem.

Johnwen then discovered that this problem is wide-spread and has been reported to the FDA


Johnwen wrote:
HMMM! Seems your not alone!

On Apr, 10, 2018
4,156 people reported to have side effects when taking Solu-cortef.
Among them, 19 people (0.46%) have Hypoglycemia

https://www.ehealthme.com/ds/solu-cortef/hypoglycemia/

On Apr, 14, 2018
6,401 people reported to have side effects when taking drugs with ingredients of hydrocortisone sodium succinate.
Among them, 32 people (0.5%) have Hypoglycemia

https://www.ehealthme.com/is/hydrocorti ... oglycemia/

Added;
OWEN'
Where you given or taking metformin while you were in the hospital and they gave you this IV of Solu-Cortef?
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

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Re: New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Thu May 17, 2018 4:18 am

How a mix of vitamins and steroids could kill sepsis: 6 things to know
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/quality/how-a-mix-of-vitamins-and-steroids-could-kill-sepsis-6-things-to-know.html

The idea that new large studies are necessary is a delaying tactic. One bit of interesting news is to credit the idea to Alpha Folwer, MD.

Dr. Marik's treatment, a mixture of intravenous vitamin C, vitamin B1 and corticosteroids, was first developed by Alpha Fowler, MD, at Richmond-based Virginia Commonwealth University. Dr. Marik started using the combination treatment in 2016 and said it does not have consequential side effects. "At last count, over 700 patients have received the cocktail and, you know, the response is reproducible," Dr. Marik said.


And then there is the pesky problem that some, perhaps 50% of the hydrocortisone (Solu-Cortef) is faulty and probably won't work during these "large" trials.
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

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Re: New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

Post Number:#5  Post by ofonorow » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:14 am

A cure for an illness that kills thousands every year may be close
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/health/fox-medical-team/a-cure-for-an-illness-that-kills-thousands-every-year-may-be-close

This from Fox news.. the more news the better..


"It's incredibly frustrating. There have been over 100 clinical trials of sepsis, and none of them have been positive," says Dr. Coopersmith.

But Virginia critical care doctor Paul Marik believes this inexpensive I-V cocktail of vitamin C, hydrocortisone and thiamine may be able to stop sepsis. Dr. Marik says his protocol has cut the sepsis death rate in his hospital's ICU from "about 40%" to "maybe 1 or 2%." He believes the combination appears to cure severe sepsis, and septic shock.

"And, as outrageous as many people may think that statement is, we really believe it's true. We see it every day. And I this it has the potential to completely revolutionize the way we treat sepsis and septic shock," says Dr. Marik.

Still, many critical care doctors won't use Marik's Protocol because it hasn't been tested -- and proven to work -- in a large clinical trial. But Coopersmith has used it on a handful of sepsis patients, including a man he was convinced was dying,
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

Joanna45
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Re: New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

Post Number:#6  Post by Joanna45 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:19 am

The sad part is that if the patient is dying why not not give the vitamin C and hydrocortisone what would they possibly have to lose ..I just had a good friend die of sepsis..she went into the hospital to have abdominal surgery and got sepsis and never came home . She was 61 ..

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Re: New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

Post Number:#7  Post by zarfas » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:52 pm

Joanna45 wrote:The sad part is that if the patient is dying why not not give the vitamin C and hydrocortisone what would they possibly have to lose ..I just had a good friend die of sepsis..she went into the hospital to have abdominal surgery and got sepsis and never came home . She was 61 ..

wow
I'm sorry to hear that.
Ive wondered how the F does someone die from sepis? She couldnt take vit C by mouth? or is that just not fast enough?

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Re: New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

Post Number:#8  Post by Joanna45 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Thank you Zafras..it happened so quick and she could not take vitamin orally she was to sick ..and its the same hospital where I was diagnosed with mesenteric narrowing 50 percent.they did not want me to take high vitamin c doses.and still don’t.
Just saw my doctor for yearly check up and the Doc said I want to try and talk you out of using such high doses. I told her that I woul continue to use it the way I have been because it works..they are just not open to fact that it works..

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Re: New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

Post Number:#9  Post by zarfas » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:41 am

Joanna45 wrote:Thank you Zafras..it happened so quick and she could not take vitamin orally she was to sick ..and its the same hospital where I was diagnosed with mesenteric narrowing 50 percent.they did not want me to take high vitamin c doses.and still don’t.
Just saw my doctor for yearly check up and the Doc said I want to try and talk you out of using such high doses. I told her that I woul continue to use it the way I have been because it works..they are just not open to fact that it works..

well, crap
Since being on this forum, I'm always taking vit C, I have extra stashed in my car/work even, just so my body never gets to E.
I've also not been sick in at least a year, I was discussing the lack of us being sick with my friend who gets her vit C as much as I do.

Why do docs try to discourage you from taking vit C? That's not making sense with me
My friend and i discussed a local place to get IV-vit C, but my friend was scared cause she heard of a girl died from IV-Curcumin
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/naturo ... -turmeric/

I had to explain the vit C is NOT turmeric and vit C is water soluable and very safe, which is why I see nothing wrong with taking as much of it as I can.
Im interested in what the MDs rational is. I dont really believe in the thinking that MDs know vit C is so great and dont want people to take it because it can cure them, Ithink they are just trained to think other ways are the cure and think Vit C is hogwash(as I used to think)

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Re: New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

Post Number:#10  Post by Saw » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:29 am

There was another story out about 3 or 4 years ago, they were using Vitamin C and I think Olive leaf extract(?) for sepsis.
The results were very good but not as good as this one.
I can't seem to find it, maybe I have the olive leaf extract part wrong.
Anyone remember this?
Even a Blind Squirrel makes his own vitamin C.

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Re: New info on treating sepsis with vitamin C

Post Number:#11  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:13 am

no memory.
Researchers are trialing Marik's sepsis treatment in New Zealand. Bizarro.. The vitamin C treated folks get "conventional treatment" too, and it is double blind, meaning half the folks won't be getting vitamin C.


Vitamin C to be trialed as life-saving treatment for patients with sepsis
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12069636
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