Mr. Fonorow:
I recently read your Web page at:
http://internetwks.com/owen/HeartCureRD.htm.
I have a question to ask you, or maybe you can tell me who I can call for an
answer.
I am 63 and about 5 weeks ago I had a heart attack and my cardiologist installed a stent. He said my arteries were good except for the stent location and one other artery that was about 20% blocked by plaque. My cardiologist and family doctor placed me on the following medications:
1. 40mg of Lipitor per day
2. 10 mg of Effient (blood thinner) per day.
3. 10mg of Benicar per day (I have been on this blood pressure medication
for about a decade.
4. 325mg of aspirin per day.
Before the attack, I had been taking the following supplements:
1. 1,000 mg of vitamin C daily
2. 1,000 IU of Omega-3 fish oils
3. 1,000 IU of vitamin D3
4. Magnesium, biotin and Selenium supplement. (There were slightly low on my
last blood test.)
I read about the Pauling and Rath protocols, plus read the Hickey/Roberts book on Ascorbate, most of Linus Paulings books, and about 6 others.
I worked up to the following:
1. 6 grams of vitamin C. I hit my bowel tolerance at about 3-4 grams, slacked off by 500mg, and continued to work myself up to 6 grams by the end of the first month after my stent operation. I was still trying to increase the number of grams, until I ran into the problem below.
2. I worked up to 2 grams of Lysine.
3. I worked up to 1 gram of proline.
4. I added 400 IU of tocopheryls and 200 IU of tocotrienols. I cannot find large doses of tocotrienols, but I was working on it.
5. 2,000 IU of Omega-3 fish oils.
6. 2,000 Omega-3 fish oil
7. I cut out all sugar. I always avoided trans-fats.
8. 500mg of niacin. (My triglycerides were slightly high, so I started on Niaspan, but I switched to straight niacin after a week. This was added just recently.
I was working my way up to larger doses when I read the following warning on
the
[url]http://www.livonlabs.com/cgi-bin/start.cgi/liposome-encapsulated/lypo-spheri
c-vitamin-c.html[/url] Webpage:
Special Notes: It is not recommended that any form of vitamin C be taken
with blood thinners, such as Coumadin or Warfarin.
I emailed LPI and LivOnlabs and asked them about taking vitamin C and
Effient and I received the following emails:"Hi Robert,
"Thank you for your email. Some studies show that vitamin C may reverse the
effects of blood thinners (i.e. make the blood more viscous), although the
results are inconclusive. We have many customers who take our Lypo-Spheric
Vitamin C in conjunction with a blood thinner without any adverse side
effects. However, we simply put a warning on our packaging to encourage our
customers to be on the safe side and consult their oncologists before
beginning any type of vitamin regimen. Many oncologists will permit their
patients to take vitamin C, and then monitor blood levels closely for the
first month or so. If no changes are noted, the patient is cleared to take
the vitamin C indefinitely.
"I hope this information is helpful to you. If you have any additional
questions, please feel free to reply to this email or contact Customer
Service at 866-682-6193. Thank you!
"Best Regards,
"Kara Gardner
Customer Service Manager
LivOn Laboratories
2654 W. Horizon Ridge Pkwy Ste B5-108
Henderson, NV 89052
Tel 1: 1-866-682-6193 ext 106
Tel 2: 1-702-255-0265
Fax: 1-702-492-6824"
Here is the reply from LPI:"Dear Rob,
"I have summarized some information about vitamin C and blood thinners for
you below. I hope you find this information clear and useful. If you have
any additional questions, please let us know. Thank you very much for your
questions!
"Sincerely,
Giana
"VITAMIN C AND EFFIENT
"Effient is an anti-platelet medication. Although it may work differently
than Warfarin and Coumadin (anticoagulants), they all work to lessen the
ability of blood to clot. For this reason, I would classify all of them as
"blood thinners". Your doctor may have more to say on this front.
"There is some evidence, though controversial, that vitamin C interacts with
anticoagulant medications (blood thinners). Individuals on anticoagulants
should limit their vitamin C intake to 1 gram/day and have their prothrombin
time monitored by the clinician following their anticoagulant therapy.
Because high doses of vitamin C have also been found to interfere with the
interpretation of certain laboratory tests (e.g., serum bilirubin, serum
creatinine, and the guaiac assay for occult blood), it is important to
inform one's health care provider of any recent supplement use. For more on
vitamin C safety,
"visit:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/v ... tml#safety)
"INTERACTIONS BETWEEN YOUR MEDICATIONS AND SUPPLEMENTS
"Effient:
"-According to the Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database, Effient should
not be taken with certain herbals (Danshen, Dong Quai, Ginkgo, St. John's
Wart, Willow Bark), evening primrose oil, grapefruit, or policosanol.
Perhaps double-check the ingredients on your multivitamin to ensure none of
these products are present in the ingredient list.
"-Moderate caution is advised when combining fish oil, selenium, or vitamin
E with Effient because they may increase the risk of bleeding.
"-The other supplements you listed have no known interactions with Effient.
"Benicar:
"-Fish Oils may lower blood pressure, so caution is advised when combining
fish oil supplements with Benicar.
"Lipitor:
"-Vitamin D induces an enzyme that degrades Lipitor, therefore Vitamin D
supplementation may reduce the levels of Lipitor in your system. Caution is
advised when combining vitamin D supplements with Lipitor.
"ORTHOMOLECULAR DOCTORS
The Linus Pauling Institute is a basic research facility, and unfortunately
we do not have physician recommendations. However, you may be able to find
candidates by searching the two Web sites that deal with orthomolecular
medicine:
"http://www.orthomolecular.org/
-lists practitioners by location if you click on "Resources" on their home
page
"http://www.orthomed.org/
-fill in your email address to receive names of practitioners
(http://orthomed.org/resources/resources.html).
"MORE INFORMATION
"I followed the links you provided, and I would recommend reading the LPI's
article on vitamin C for accurate, science-based information about vitamin C
and optimum health: http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/v ... /vitaminC/
"There is also a short commentary on the LPIs vitamin C recommendations for
healthy individuals that you might find interesting:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/paulingrec.html
"Best regards,
"Giana
I discussed the above with my family doctor and he had me stop all my supplements except 1 gram of vitamin C per day. I get a blood test on April 4.
My cardiologist said I would be on Effient for one year at a minimum, or the rest of my life at a maximum.
Both of my doctors think I am crazy for even thinking of supplements. My first cardiologist told me that supplements were a waste of money, and that all you needed to do was eat a balanced diet. I then switched to the cardiologist who installed my stent. He said there was no evidence that vitamin C does anything. He had read the original Pauling papers, but said that later tests proved that vitamin C was no better than a placebo. He is
not interested in supplements and told me to stay on my assigned medications.
Stents are about 80-90% successful, but are subject to restenosis, or return of blockage, and sometimes the arteries build new paths around the stent.
My doctors want me to stay on blood thinner and Lipitor forever, and this may be dangerous if I continue taking my supplements. However, if If I go off the supplements I won't get any better, or at least I won't be able to prevent further damage.
I have been looking for an MD that practices Orthomolecular medicine, but I have not been able to find one yet.
So, my question is: what do I do?
Any help would be appreciated.
Best regards,
Robert
In my experience - these warnings about vitamin C and blood thinners are misguided. (I am now of the opinion that warnings about vitamin K and blood thinners are also misguided.) Those who posted are being overly cautious with no basis, and unfortunately you are suffering a condition (if Pauling was correct ) that should be called chronic scurvy.
Since you suffered the heart attack while taking 1000 mg of vitamin C, we can assume
your metabolic requirement is higher, at least the 6000 mg Pauling recommended. In my experience, as detailed in my book, it can require 10,000 mg or more to overcome cardiovascular disease. You were right to consider Lypo-C given your low bowel tolerance. And I understand you wanting to be safe considering all the drugs you are taking.
In my opinion, all safety issues are with the drugs they have prescribed for you, not vitamin C. (If you follow their advice you WILL be a perpetual heart patient.)
Your doctors were never taught about the therapeutic benefits of any nutritional (i.e., unpatentable) substance, other than perhaps potassium. As I discovered from personal experience, information about vitamin C is glaringly absent from medical education. (it is sad that simply by reading the books you have, you now know far more than your doctors about vitamin C.)
Vitamin C (and lysine) are required in the diet in some amount for life. They are essential. They have no known lethal toxic dose, etc. Lets compare that with those drugs...
To some of your points (since your heart attack was so recent, there may be considerations I am not aware of, and I hope johnwen will address these issues if they exist.)
Before the attack, I had been taking the following supplements:
1. 1,000 mg of vitamin C daily
2. 1,000 IU of Omega-3 fish oils
3. 1,000 IU of vitamin D3
4. Magnesium, biotin and Selenium supplement. (There were slightly low on my
last blood test.)
You mentioned that your arteries were "generally" in good shape, except where they inserted the stent. (Do you know which type of heart attack you had?)
My first thought is to read or re read Pauling's HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER. You would be wise to follow his complete Foundational supplement regimen, including and especially a multi-vitamin/multi-mineral, 400 to 800 vitamin E, 25,000 vitamin A and 1 or 2 Super-B complexes. Linus Pauling's minimum vitamin C recommendation was 6000 mg daily!
1. 40mg of Lipitor per day
2. 10 mg of Effient (blood thinner) per day.
3. 10mg of Benicar per day (I have been on this blood pressure medication
for about a decade.
4. 325mg of aspirin per day.
We haven't updated the page lately, but we devoted an entire large page to the "hidden dangers" of station cholesterol lowering drugs, e.g. http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/statinalert/ What is especially disturbing is that medicals cience knows that cholesterol is not the cause of heart disease (merely the body's natural healing reaction to heart disease), not that ordinary doctors are made aware of this. So "they" now claim statins are good for things like lowering C-Reactive Protein, etc. What we do know for sure, is that statins will RAISE Lp(a) - which is the major culprit in atherosclerosis according to Pauling/Rath. Medicine has no protocol for lowering Lp(a) - but we do - follow Pauling's advice and take vitamin C and lysine at the right dosage, and add Rath's advice to also supplement the non-essential amino acid proline. See http://www.practicingmedicinewithoutalicense.com/protocol/ for dosages.
I leave the efient discussion to Dr. Johnwen. However, we know that by following Pauling's advice and adopting his therapy, blood clots are in theory much less likely. It sounds from the description of yourarteries being generally in good shape, that you don' t have the "unstable plaque" issue described in Dr. Levy's STOP AMERICA'S NUMBER 1 KILLER (livonbooks.com). This is the main issue (unstable plaques that have grown capillaries) where all these drugs become important.
Jumping to the aspirin. If I were having what I thought was a heart attack, I might even take a good dose of aspirin. But daily use (especially without vitamin C) can be expected to do much more harm than good, to the stomach lining, etc. Reference Pauling's HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER. Instead, of aspirin, I would take 400 to 1600 of A.C. Grace's Unique-E natural vitamin E, and I might increase the magnesium and Omega/3 dosage, etc.
In summary, it is to be expected that medicine has "learned" to prescribe certain drugs, as it keeps patients coming back for more treatment.
But I wish LivonLabs and LPI would consider the effects of their misguided cautions on heart patients, who are almost by definition vitamin C deficient! To the extent heart patients do not take extra vitamin C based on warnings from these "Friendly" institutions, they are set on a course of action that makes the underling problem - chronic scurvy - worse!