Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

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Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#1  Post by JIEGOOD » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:37 am

Hi,
My friend was recently diagnosed of abnormal Left Ventricular Hypertrophy (LVH) via ECG but his blood pressure is very much ok. He has no symptoms apart from occasional tiredness. As a result he takes vitamin c 1500mg, plus Busy B that also contains vitamin c-500mg, plus Wellman max that also has some small amount of vitamin c.
So when he researched on the internet he found where it says :
"
Left ventricular hypertrophy is found among people who take Vitamin c, especially for people who are male, 60+ old "
So his question is:

1)Can taking Vitamin C caused him LVH?
2) and what can he do to normalise the LVH.
3) Will stopping vitamin C be the remedy
4) and if so, how long can it take to normalise it when he stops the Vitamin C, assuming you feel it is the cause, else,
5) what could be the cause and options to normalise it.
Thanks in advance.
Chuk

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Re: Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#2  Post by jimmylesante » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:52 pm

Perhaps the vitamin c is taking up too much magnesium.?
I'd speak with an orthomolecular doc and perhaps take

B complex with Thiamin (vitamin B1) – 10 mg twice a day for 2 to 3 months
Magnesium – 1000 mg in 3 or 4 equally
divided doses for 6 to 12 months
Which should help with LVH

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Re: Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#3  Post by Johnwen » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:08 pm

Remember the Myth about the fireman?
That goes like this.
Every time there’s a burning structure there’s always firemen there, So the firemen must be causing the fire, because their always there!

Same thing with this Myth about V-C causing hypertrophy when the fact of the matter is that when a ventricle goes into hypertrophy there is an increase of ROS and this increase causes the body to send more antioxidants to counter the ROS which includes V-C.

In lab experiments with rats they showed a 30% increase in ascorbic acid in the induced hypertrophic ventricles.

So the Anti supplement people twisted it around to sound like the firemen analogy to make it look like it doesn’t do any good and causes damage when in fact it’s one of the necessary elements to recover from this condition.
These people don’t care how many people they kill to make their point and sell more useless drugs for high profits!

Here’s a link that goes into techy detail about how all this works!

http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/49/2/241
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#4  Post by JIEGOOD » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:32 am

Johnwen wrote:Remember the Myth about the fireman?
That goes like this.
Every time there’s a burning structure there’s always firemen there, So the firemen must be causing the fire, because their always there!

Same thing with this Myth about V-C causing hypertrophy when the fact of the matter is that when a ventricle goes into hypertrophy there is an increase of ROS and this increase causes the body to send more antioxidants to counter the ROS which includes V-C.

In lab experiments with rats they showed a 30% increase in ascorbic acid in the induced hypertrophic ventricles.

So the Anti supplement people twisted it around to sound like the firemen analogy to make it look like it doesn’t do any good and causes damage when in fact it’s one of the necessary elements to recover from this condition.
These people don’t care how many people they kill to make their point and sell more useless drugs for high profits!

Here’s a link that goes into techy detail about how all this works!

http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/49/2/241



HI Johnwen
Thanks for your effort. My friend will wait for the next test to see if any changes for the better
Regards
Chuks

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Re: Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#5  Post by Johnwen » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:05 pm

When you talk to your friend!
I would suggest next time he talks to his doc to see about getting a echocardiogram to see what really is going on there.
This is a painless procedure where they use sound waves to get images of their target, in his case the heart.

Now the bad news, a majority of the people with LV hypertrophy have some form of aortic valve problem that doesn’t show it’s ugly head till a person hit’s their sixth decade of life and depending on the severity of the problem with the valve, it usually progress’s rapidly.
Time from diagnosis to replacement surgery is usually around 2 years. There are other things that can cause this problem but there again none of them are good!
However getting a more exact idea of what’s going on is STEP ONE!

Wishing him the best!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#6  Post by JIEGOOD » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:22 am

Johnwen wrote:When you talk to your friend!
I would suggest next time he talks to his doc to see about getting a echocardiogram to see what really is going on there.
This is a painless procedure where they use sound waves to get images of their target, in his case the heart.

Now the bad news, a majority of the people with LV hypertrophy have some form of aortic valve problem that doesn’t show it’s ugly head till a person hit’s their sixth decade of life and depending on the severity of the problem with the valve, it usually progress’s rapidly.
Time from diagnosis to replacement surgery is usually around 2 years. There are other things that can cause this problem but there again none of them are good!
However getting a more exact idea of what’s going on is STEP ONE!

Wishing him the best!


Hi Johnwen"
Are you saying that even if it is aortic valve problem that it might not show up in the echocardiogram?. He has been told that this will be the next test but no date yet.
Regards

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Re: Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#7  Post by Johnwen » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:06 am

No! I’m saying the a echo is the best tool to see if there is a problem with the valve which maybe the root of his problem.
This test can show factors of the valve such as AVA (aortic valve area) How well the valve is opening and EF (ejection fraction) How much blood is coming out thru the valve compared to what is inside the ventricle. There are many other components of the heart it can also show. So at this point it’s the best look, see to what’s going on in there!!

The most common problem that shows later in life is what’s known as a bicuspid aortic valve. This is where the valve instead of having three leaflets has two.
The problem with a bicuspid valve is that as one ages the pumping force of the heart starts to reduce and creates a swirling effect over the valve.
I’d like to add that usually one’s physical activity is also reduced as one ages which also contributes to this!
This in turn causes pockets of blood to form over the valve and debris that is present in the blood starts to create a build up on the leaflets which is known as “Stenosis.”
Which then cause the leaflets to become stiff and restrict blood from exiting the heart.
This in turn causes a back up of blood inside the ventricle which creates more pressure in the ventricle and lead to the muscle the heart is made of to enlarge because is being force to exert more pressure to move the blood.

Hope this helps with your understanding!!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#8  Post by JIEGOOD » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:37 pm

Johnwen wrote:No! I’m saying the a echo is the best tool to see if there is a problem with the valve which maybe the root of his problem.
This test can show factors of the valve such as AVA (aortic valve area) How well the valve is opening and EF (ejection fraction) How much blood is coming out thru the valve compared to what is inside the ventricle. There are many other components of the heart it can also show. So at this point it’s the best look, see to what’s going on in there!!

The most common problem that shows later in life is what’s known as a bicuspid aortic valve. This is where the valve instead of having three leaflets has two.
The problem with a bicuspid valve is that as one ages the pumping force of the heart starts to reduce and creates a swirling effect over the valve.
I’d like to add that usually one’s physical activity is also reduced as one ages which also contributes to this!
This in turn causes pockets of blood to form over the valve and debris that is present in the blood starts to create a build up on the leaflets which is known as “Stenosis.”
Which then cause the leaflets to become stiff and restrict blood from exiting the heart.
This in turn causes a back up of blood inside the ventricle which creates more pressure in the ventricle and lead to the muscle the heart is made of to enlarge because is being force to exert more pressure to move the blood.

Hope this helps with your understanding!!

Hi Johnwen
Many thanks for the clarity. Will update you once they give the date and have done the echo.
Regards

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Re: Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#9  Post by JIEGOOD » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:15 am

JIEGOOD wrote:
Johnwen wrote:No! I’m saying the a echo is the best tool to see if there is a problem with the valve which maybe the root of his problem.
This test can show factors of the valve such as AVA (aortic valve area) How well the valve is opening and EF (ejection fraction) How much blood is coming out thru the valve compared to what is inside the ventricle. There are many other components of the heart it can also show. So at this point it’s the best look, see to what’s going on in there!!

The most common problem that shows later in life is what’s known as a bicuspid aortic valve. This is where the valve instead of having three leaflets has two.
The problem with a bicuspid valve is that as one ages the pumping force of the heart starts to reduce and creates a swirling effect over the valve.
I’d like to add that usually one’s physical activity is also reduced as one ages which also contributes to this!
This in turn causes pockets of blood to form over the valve and debris that is present in the blood starts to create a build up on the leaflets which is known as “Stenosis.”
Which then cause the leaflets to become stiff and restrict blood from exiting the heart.
This in turn causes a back up of blood inside the ventricle which creates more pressure in the ventricle and lead to the muscle the heart is made of to enlarge because is being force to exert more pressure to move the blood.

Hope this helps with your understanding!!

Hi Johnwen
Many thanks for the clarity. Will update you once they give the date and have done the echo.
Regards


Hi Johnwen
I can now confirm that my friend has done the ECHO and all was declared clear and normal. They are saying the initial ECG result that showed LVH could have just been his make up as nothing of such showed in the echocardiagram Thank you so far for your contribution. It took so long for them to get the result.

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Re: Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#10  Post by exitium » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:08 am

There isnt enough context in your post about your friends research indicating LVH is actually caused by Vit C. Association is NOT causation after all.

Having said that the first question that comes to mind is "has your friend been regularly active"? The heart, after all, is a muscle and as it works harder there is some expectation of hypertrophy. Any cardiologist worth their salt should have asked about activity but now days ya never know.

I have LVH due to decades of heavy lifting. That was also combined with thickening. Years of high dose vit C (and many other supps) actually reverted the thickening and reduced the LVH, which was still in the acceptable range for an athletic individual.

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Re: Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#11  Post by Johnwen » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:51 am

From what I’m reading here it appears this friend of the poster experienced what is called, “transient left ventricular hypertrophy.” which>90% of the time is caused by stress. Which in turn causes an increase in catecholamines from the adrenals. Ie; Fight or flight hormones. This brings on more fluids going into the muscles including the heart muscle and if their not used ( like running etc.) they tend to stagnate in the muscle which results in edema (water swelling) in the case of the heart, the walls become temporarily thicker and then return to normal usually between 1 day and 6 months depending on other factors in the body. Like how active they are, kidney function, general health, etc.
You’ll note they first made their diagnoses by ECG which is made by a elevated R wave and prominent T and U waves. Which could be caused by the stress of just getting the test or a pulled muscle in the chest (Chest Pain) which sets the brain in OH,OH heart mode thoughts, all of which raises stress levels. This sets off the flight or fight response!
The good news he got it looked into now he needs to do all the healthy stuff to prevent it from happening again, then work on getting their stress levels down.
The Vitamin C issue only helps the body in stress situations by keeping the tissues of the body strong. You’ll note some people can take 6 months to recover from this condition his friend took < then a month.
Best advice I could give is don’t stop the V-C not even for a single day.
In fact he should up it to about 3000mg divided thru the day which is considered a base amount.
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Vitamin C and Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

Post Number:#12  Post by musashie » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:18 am

JIEGOOD wrote:
Johnwen wrote:Remember the Myth about the fireman?
That goes like this.
Every time there’s a burning structure there’s always firemen there, So the firemen must be causing the fire, because their always there!

Same thing with this Myth about V-C causing hypertrophy when the fact of the matter is that when a ventricle goes into hypertrophy there is an increase of ROS and this increase causes the body to send more antioxidants to counter the ROS which includes V-C.

In lab experiments with rats they showed a 30% increase in ascorbic acid in the induced hypertrophic ventricles.

So the Anti supplement people twisted it around to sound like the firemen analogy to make it look like it doesn’t do any good and causes damage when in fact it’s one of the necessary elements to recover from this condition.
These people don’t care how many people they kill to make their point and sell more useless drugs for high profits!

Here’s a link that goes into techy detail about how all this works!

http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/49/2/241



HI Johnwen
Thanks for your effort. My friend will wait for the next test to see if any changes for the better
Regards
Chuks


Also ROS is produced at the expense of nitric oxide a vasodilator. AA has been show to counter this.


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