Owen's Blood Still Clumping

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Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:19 am

Due to my overly excessive vitamin C intake, I have been sharing my complete medical history over the years here at this forum. It has been an interesting ride, to say the least.

Buried in another topic, I recently had to have my blood drawn three times for a DNA (telomere length) test. The term used as the reason for the failure(s) was hydrolysis. The third barely got through, and based on johnwen's suggestions, I had my primary care doc draw blood, and they found the elevated Thyroid Stimulating Hormone, which has been verified now by two other blood draws.

But what has also become constant is "platelet clumping" - the last 3 CBC tests, not counting the 3 DNA tests, reported clumping. (My primary care doc didn't think it was a big deal - but I will copy what his nurse wrote to me at the bottom). He did send me to the "endocrine" for the elevated TSH. (Which is why I had more blood drawn.)

Also buried in that topic was a regimen suggested by exitium and others - that I have adopted and been following. I don't know how long to expect before it works, but while I feel very good, my platelets still clump !?

The other day, I was speaking to a doctor friend, and ask her why my platelets are clumping, and she immediately said, "You must have a lot of fibrin..." She immediately started to talk about "enzymes" and the :idea: went on! The pancreas is responsible for a lot more than just making insulin (and my blood sugar is getting harder to control). What if the production of pancreatic enzymes has also dropped off since my pancreas was sliced in two pieces? I wanted to put this out there, as I have started to take the Gonsalez pancreatic enzymes in pretty good amounts (they ain't cheap) and we'll see what happens regarding future blood draws...

My endocrine has put my own my first "real" prescription levothyroxine. (Everything else I take is orthomolecular - hydrocortisone is bioidentical cortisol, insulin, etc.) For the high TSH and low T4. She also ordered a pituitary MRI - which came back normal.

This is from my primary care's nurse re: the platelet clumping:


Hi Owen,

When we draw a cbc (which has a platelet count in it) we use a tube that has an anticoagulant in it called EDTA. This prevents the blood from clotting. However, some people's blood for some reason reacts with the EDTA and the platelets clot. In the lab they call this "EDTA platelet clumping." If the doctor wants an accurate platelet count, the lab can draw your blood in a tube with a different anticoagulant in it (Na citrate) and send it to the lab. When we run a cbc, the doctor's are usually not interested in the platelet count - it is just included in the results. They are usually looking at your white blood cells to check for infection or your red blood cells and hemoglobin to see if you are anemic. I will ask Dr. W. if he wants you to come back to test your platelets.
So - the good news is, the platelet clumping is not due to any medical condition and it is of no significance as far as your health is concerned.
Please contact us with any questions.
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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#2  Post by gofanu » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:54 am

By my information, High TSH and Low T4 = low iodine.
Thyroid makes T3 as the most essential biologically active thyroid hormone, when iodine is limited.
It makes some T3 and more T4 when there is plenty of iodine, and Se dependent deiodinase enzymes then cut one I atom off to make T3 where needed.
Other Se enzymes then convert T3 to T2
And T2 to T1
And T1 to no T atall.
Leaving a trail of iodine atoms hither and thither.
I am the only person in the world it seems, who realizes that this chain of action is a means of storing and transporting rapidly available iodine around the body.
If your Se is short, your general distribution and action of I will be deranged.
Your body wants iodine everywhere, and producing T4 plus the deiodinases is what delivers it.
Pituitary probably picks up those local iodine shortages and calls for TSH to make T4 to deliver some iodine to location g397h74.
All That affects everything.
Undoubtedly including the pancreas.
Have you read Gaby on sub clinical hypothyroid?
And the miserable reliability of the associated lab tests?
I've linked it a dozen times
It is all what I've been saying about your reported issues for years now.
See again that basic life pathway.
I have written that a dozen times too.

And I think there is a great deal that indicates synthetic thyroid hormones are poor to disastrous.
And the one of biggest profit makers going since the scam was invented.
When 100 plus years of iodine as Lugol's became evil incarnate.
Go read the Optimox.com> research articles again.
And the nearby Mg link I just posted.
Abraham makes it quite clear that iodine actions depend on Mg first, as does life itself.
Listen to Gaby, or listen to Abraham, or listen to me, but pay attention.

I also think iodine has something to do with fibrin, clotting, etc.
Never paid it much attention, having more pressing things going.
Will see what else I can turn up.

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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#3  Post by exitium » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:17 am

Owen, I dont recall how long it was reported for my protocol to take and while its not necessarily related to your blood it will take about 4 months for your blood to be naturally replaced. If im not mistaken you have only been at it a few weeks. I would try and give it around 4 months to judge if its working or not.

As for your TSH, I am in agreement with gofanu, the thyroid process seems to be largely misunderstood by so many in the medical community and I believe we have touched in this in the past.

If memory serves you said you were taking iodarol but dont recall you ever stated how much, it comes in 12,25 and 50 tabs and my guess is you are likely on one of the 2 lower doses. I know you have mentioned Browstien here before you you must put some value in his opinion. He has claimed that in his practice he says it routinely takes 6-12 months at 50mg iodine for a person to become sufficient, likely twice as long on 25mg and at 12mg it will likely never happen.

With the above in mind and assuming you are on the lower dose then it would seem logical you are just "poking the bear" so to speak. One of the most common questions brownstien gets from those new to iodine supplementation is "Why is my TSH elevated?".

TSH is usually by most docs as an indicator or request to produce more T4 BUT in reality its also used to trigger NIS Symporter creation. These receptors are whats used to uptake iodine and in scenarios where a deficiency exists the receptor count is reduced. When iodine is reintroduced there is a transient stage where the body ramps up the numbers to deal with new supply iodine to it can be collected and processed by the thyroid.

So, if the above scenario is correct and your TSH is simply elevated because your floating in the grey area of iodine, then the introduction of levothyroxine is likely going to raise blood levels and cause the thyroid feedback mechanisms to lower thyroid production requiring an adjustment in meds, rinse and repeat until basically the thyroid is by and large sitting idle and you rely solely on external thyroid hormones.

While I do think there is a time and a place for external hormones, for me personally that time isnt until I have made sure that the underlying required nutrients have been introduced and given time to see if they restore normal function. Some of us here would likely argue that if you have been using the 12mg iodarol then you have not fully reached iodine sufficiency and therefor cant accurately judge if its time to employ external thyroid hormones.

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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#4  Post by Dolev » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:23 am

To deal with blood clumping, I suggest purchasing an Earthing sheet from the earthing.com company. Read the book.
Dolev

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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#5  Post by gofanu » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:18 pm

Ref Dolev 3
I found that serious if occult infection, stress etc clearly consume iodine.
It is likely why so many are hypothyroid per Gaby, when we did not used to have that problem so much.
It was discovered long ago c1850 that iodine is scavenged from the atmosphere by plants, and that is how we usually got "enough" through the food chain - but it ain't happenin' with modern farm practise.
Repeat: It is likely why so many are hypothyroid per Gaby, when we did not used to have that problem so much.

Some time (two or three years) after I had been taking first 12.5 then 25mg I, For me it was 150mg/d (from 25 over a three month period)to kill the bacterial infection, and still near 100 usually, to recover over last two years.
Thus, given my understanding of Owen's history, I expect his needs were/are/will be very high, I think your/his iodoral use is relatively recent, and in a period of heavy need. Therefore, no progress toward resolution/improvement.

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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#6  Post by Rosana » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:08 pm

Wow...clumping. I began taking VC like you all 12 2014. I have heard every cancer cell contains mercury and have also heard it contains candida. I would think metals can cause something to clump and then problems can arise from that.

I am using FGDE's negative charge to take out the bad positive charge things. Chlorella, Selenium, other things can do that too. I have read VC is a shelter of metals. Is it possible large amounts of VC make it a chelater?

I take VC first, wait a bit, then take FGDE. It would be nice to have all the details and figure out what to take when. One would think most people's blood clumps. I consume turmeric daily, maybe that would be of assistance in non clumping? I shouldn't even be here. It is best I finish sewing two pair (hardly started) of my employer's pants before I get back in.

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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#7  Post by ofonorow » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:06 am

Thanks for the replies. I am not happy about the synthetic thyroid, believe me, but this doctor is the only one who will prescribe the hydrocortisone I require which is literally saving my life. (I'd be in a wheel chair by now - or worse - without it or some whachy reumatoid arthrit. med.)

I understand the fact that it may take months for the "new blood" to enter the system, but my problem is that I am in the middle of a telomere test where my blood will be drawn every six weeks! (I'll keep up the exitium protocol since I feel very good) And that reminds me about vitamin E - which we haven't discussed for awhile. My father and brother both had heart attacks after discontinuing vitamin E - they ran out and didn't buy more, after taking it regularly for many years. I forget the number of weeks, but it was about the same period required for blood to be produced in the marrow.

Regarding Iodine. I had been taking at least 1 iodoral pill now for years, perhaps missing periods when I ran out, but almost continuously. After the previous forum discussion I went up to 3 (12.5 mg) pills daily, or what, 37.5 mg. I also take selenium, and again, since the last discussion, regularly.

I find it hard to believe I can be deficient in iodine, unless my very high vitamin C intake is somehow "neutralizing" it?

Now, I was also taking naturethroid - a "natural" thyroid on top of all this, for about a year. (And I stopped taking it before some of this blood work, because I wanted to see what my thyroid was doing, rather than the supplement. I suspect this may have something to do with the highly elevated TSH.
The stopping.

Back to the pancreas. Mine has been sliced and is in two pieces. About two years ago I developed the requirement for insulin, and this requirement seems to be increasing. I know johnwen has ideas that another hormone - glucagon? - may be in play here? But the pancreas also manufactures various digestive enzymes, and if its production of these enzymes is waning, perhaps the excess fibrin is a symptom of this loss of production. Remember, this is a physical (surgical) injury to my pancreas.

There is really no evidence of this, my stools or digestion, but to be safe, I have increased my intake of these digestive enzymes, which have the added benefit of being the Beard "100 year old" cure for cancer
:)
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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#8  Post by Johnwen » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:00 am

Here’s the brake down (wiki) on what Owen’s nurse is talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudothrombocytopenia

Under normal circumstances on low thyroid output or poor conversion I would tend to side with the post’s here about iodine and selenium.
However in Owen’s case we have to look outside of the box.

When a person has a High TSH number it means the thyroid is not producing at the proper levels Correct?
Now what happens to this person cholesterol levels when this is happening???
Yep they start heading up and up!

Now how about a person who has real low cholesterol levels to begin with??
Same thing!
So ask yourself is the shut down of thyroid function a reaction or a action??
It’s a reaction!
Now throw in some thyroid supplements and what happens?
For a while this will stop or slow the cholesterol rise but if the body is still lacking the TSH will start to rise again! Eventually you’ll be chasing ever changing numbers and your focus will be on a reaction and ignore the real problem.

Same thing in the adrenals thyroid slows down the adrenals kick in with more cortisol production! However they don’t have the raw materials available to produce the cortisol and they just put out what they can which isn’t enough, this in turn signals the thyroid to slow down. However their in standby mode and the supplement thyroid meds are driving the show now.

Next in this ball of confusion is the kidney’s and the liver eventually something has to give.
All the time the real issue is being avoided.
I covered this many times before and I’ll stand by it now he needs to get his cholesterol back up to 180 or better and stop the madness before it hurt’s BAD!! Insulin is the key get the glucose back into the 90’s and the rest will fall into place! I’m starting to sound like PETE the repeat!!!

http://www.tombrimeyer.com/hypothyroidi ... olesterol/
http://stroke.ahajournals.org/content/27/11/1993.full
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#9  Post by ofonorow » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:45 pm

Thank you johnwen. I admit to feeling a little dumb as I know you have discussed this at length, however,

you’ll be chasing ever changing numbers and your focus will be on a reaction and ignore the real problem.
(

What is the "real problem?" in your opinion exactly?

Now trying to follow your last post, I agree, I would like to get my cholesterol up ( I don't have the latest test handy, but it may be as low as 145 mg/dl) However, I am at a loss how to do that? (I eat one or two eggs daily to help.) When I mention "glucagon" to any doc, their eyes glaze over...

My endrocine has increased my dinner humalog (from 10 to now 15 units). You seem to be saying the right amount of insulin will make things better, so this is the approach you mean?

Pretend I am really dumb and I know you aren't examining me. And any opinion on the T4 (levothyroxin)?
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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#10  Post by exitium » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:47 pm

ofonorow wrote:Regarding Iodine. I had been taking at least 1 iodoral pill now for years, perhaps missing periods when I ran out, but almost continuously. After the previous forum discussion I went up to 3 (12.5 mg) pills daily, or what, 37.5 mg. I also take selenium, and again, since the last discussion, regularly.
:)


With the above additional input in mind, im estimating the increased iodine dose has been for maybe a couple months at most. So with that in mind, when was your last TSH level checked and what was it at?

Where I am going with this is, if your TSH levels were lower last time they were tested and you were simply on 12.5mg a day of iodine and now your on 37mg a day and are seeing an increase in TSH then this is inline with the what brownstien has noted in his books/lectures as being transitory and is the body trying to trigger increase NIS symporter production.

I hear what johnwen is saying as well, but before we look outisde the box I think its a good idea to make sure we covered all the bases in the box as well.

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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#11  Post by ofonorow » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:32 pm

Even if you are correct, what is your solution exitium? Not clear.

I don't have direct access, or maybe I do, but I have had 3 separate blood draws that measured thyroid
in the last month - and ALL showed elevated TSH. The first I posted here (and is buried in the telomere
section, probably telemore timebomb topic.)

Here is a middle result. Maybe 2 weeks ago now?

TSH 10.35 Range 0.40-4.50 mIU/L

HDL (chol) 28 Range > OR = 40 mg/dL


Glucose 145 Range 65-99 mg/dL


DHEA(sulphate) 323 Range 24-244 mcg/dL (Throw this in - all the dhea I am taking)

NON HDL CHOLESTEROL 105 mg/dL (calc) (Calc worried me but that makes my total 105 +28 or 133)

LDL-CHOL... 76 In Range <130 mg/dL (calc)


T4(free) 0.9 In Range 0.8-1.8 ng/dL

T3(free) 3.2 In Range 2.3-4.2 pg/mL

INSULIN 18.7 In Range 2.0-19.6 uIU/mL

TESTOSTERONE (free) 82.3 In Range 46.0-224.0 pg/mL

TESTOSTERONE (bioavailable) 158.5 In Range 110.0-575.0 ng/dL

VIT D (Total) 44 In Range 30-100 ng/mL

There are a lot more..
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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#12  Post by gofanu » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:18 pm

Abraham et al have repeated shown that even in fair health, with no obvious major issues/big drains, it can and does take easily up to or beyond 100mg/d iodine a year or more to reach sufficiency, and in some cases this is required indefinitely.
You have never been even close. I have, and it worked, fixed my problem - and a good dozen things I did not know were related or problems.

While your poor pancreas is well battered, it does or did work. We want to return to that.
I have repeatedly posted a basic biological pathway that applies to pancreas, testicles, adrenals, peckers, pinkies, earlobes, hearts and brains too = everything.
Again:
"a little iodine/selenium to keep the thyroid alive> a lot of iodine so it can make T hormones> more selenium to strip I atoms off the T> vitamin B6> Maqnesium in mitochondria> pantothenic acid as a substrate> ATP = energy. AKA life! This makes it clear (again) why nothing works without magnesium too.
It does not work without ALL of those things, and there are many more pathways like that, always involving those same nutrients, give or take some others."
ALL, ALL, ALL of these are critical to ALL cells, and even more so for endocrine activity.

I have in the past repeatedly told you that panto is major for adrenal function, especially under ANY stress, specifically as well as the basic Krebs/citric acid cycle described as "Basic..pathway"

Got stress?
How much panto have you/are you taking???

The two lines above could easily account for your hydrocortisone deal.
Fix it and you are clear of the damned specialists, prescription, pharmacy.

Your familial heart problems are characteristic of low magnesium intake or usage. That is partly due to the "BASIC PATHWAY" described. Heart has to work ALL THE TIME, NO REST, Short any of these nutrients and it is game over, you lose. i recently posted on the death of a friend from this, and he ain't alone wherever he may be. Maybe he met Mike.
Further, Se acts in conjunction with VE as an oil soluble anti ox. Increase Se and you reduce your need for VE and VA.
I have experienced this, getting demonstrable E related results with 800IU E that could barely be managed with long term 1600IU. And that in turn reduced my basic VA requirement from 80,000IU to 40,000IU or maybe less, I haven't tried.

I am a Mechanic, I study and fix machines. The body is one. All those numbers the quacks have are of little use and much confusion. If your car doesn't run, I don't go and measure every part on the car. I look at it and I can plainly see that THERE IS NO GAS IN THE GODDAMNED CAR. Easily seen and easily verified at many levels.
Please put what I'm saying with what Johnwen is telling you re cholesterol and get with the program. I don't want to lose you.

FRM

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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#13  Post by exitium » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:20 pm

ofonorow wrote:Even if you are correct, what is your solution exitium? Not clear.


Owen, much like one can see a temporary increase in cholesterol when starting PT, when starting iodine its very common for the body to raise TSH which in turn triggers NIS Symporter creation. After the levels of symporters is raised sufficiently the TSH levels naturally drop to a normal level.

So the solution is just be patient and give it some time. Brownstien reported that the TSH level can be artificially elevated for a few months as the body adjusts to the new iodine levels but will eventually return to normal.

The best way to identify if this is whats happening would be to compare current TSH levels to those taken before you tripled your iodine dose. If they are elevated AND you dont have any new hypothyroid symptoms then the TSH increase is likely just a temporary side effect from the added iodine.

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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#14  Post by gofanu » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:26 pm

Ref post 9
The ingestion of cholesterol has little to nothing to do with blood levels. Not seeing that was the falsity of Keyes et al. You already know this.

Eggs is gute!
I sometimes eat as many as 6 in a day, and routinely eat 3 (Ex large)at a time, with my potatoes and sausage. Adelle related tests where they fed people 24 yolks a day for months - with NO effect on cholesterol.
But eggs are the primary source of choline, look it up. You ARE deficient, and it DOES matter.
And Lecithin - the emulsifier or solvent for cholesterol, which gets it off your arteries and to where it needs to be.
Eggs are nearly a perfect food, since they are the entire food for a developing animal. You can live forever on little save eggs and water, and people in many places have so done.

You need to get your cholesterol MAKING system right, and all the REGULATORS for it.
Lecithin is one.
choline is one.
iodine is one.
Abraham reports discovery of a hepatic circulation loop of iodine, Hepatica is the land where cholesterol is dealt with - both ways up & down.
Search this +iodine +cholesterol - See you next year!

Remember this: Regulation does not mean lower or raising or whatever goofy idea is current today. It means getting it right, hence Orthomolecular. In the same sense, Malnutrition does not mean too little food, it means bad food. Drug use does not mean drug abuse. The concept of raising cholesterol is today about as popular as the concept that there might actually be benefits from use of tobacco, or marijuana, or opium etc. Try getting a research grant for those. But, Not much less popular in some circles than the idea that 10 or 20 or 100 gm/d of AA might actually be good for you.

To continue my metaphor of gas in your car and iodine:
If you see that there is not gas in car,
Does the gauge work? (lab test)
Have you confirmed that it reflects reality? (No=bad lab test, read Gaby)
When did you put gas in? ("I put gas in lately, mm, last week, orrr - was it last month")
What is your typical gas mileage, under present and recent conditions?
How much have you driven, in miles and known conditions? City winter can eat double road summer fuel. (what are your stresses?)
Is there a leak in the tank? (yep)
How bad and under what condition?
You can have a leak so tiny it evaporates without dripping. In a month the tank is empty. (daily life)
You can have a leak that drips, and the tank is empty in a week. (moderate disease)
You can have a runner leak, and it takes a few minutes (where I was a couple of years ago - immediate life threatening) or an hour or three (Owen)
You can have a leak halfway down the tank that only leaks when it is more than half full, but thereby reduces range per tank a bunch.

Temp cure is to put more gas in faster than it leaks or than you use it driving.
Longer cure is fix leaks and tune the engine, align the wheels, adjust the brakes, put air in the tires (free), learn to drive more economically, buy a better car (not on the table here, but the rest are).

I have diagnosed, repaired, driven cars with all these conditions - always got home.
I have diagnosed, repaired and corrected my nutrition the same way - still here and hoppin'!
I did feel the right ass the day I spent an hour trying to kick start my motorcycle - which always started first kick, sweating and swearing, and was sitting there exhausted & wondering what to do next when I had the brilliant idea to look in the gas tank, right between my legs all the time - stone desert dry!

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Re: Owen's Blood Still Clumping

Post Number:#15  Post by Johnwen » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:22 pm

Great analogy gofanu! However I believe what were looking at here with Owen is more like a 5qt car that’s about 2 1\2 quart’s SHORT! Motor still running but the unusual noise’s are getting bothersome!! ( an damaging)
BTW: Yes! I have a “Harley Knee!” and I for one appreciate my right grip “BUTTON!”
Owen
Here’s a couple of test’s I would like to see the results on if you had them done recently. If not I included the CPT number’s so your glassy eyed doc’s will know or can look up and see what they are.

Glucagon CPT 82943
C-Peptide CPT 84681
Insulin CPT 83525

I see you had a insulin test with a 18.7 uIU/mL results I would like to see it somewhere in the 20 to 25 range for you. I also would like to see those three tests done at the same time on the same machine to get a better snapshoot of that time spot.
Another thing I would like to convey to you and I know what is going on right now may be a little off, But I would like you to back off and or stop all liposome supplements for a least one month before your next blood work.
I know you have a test with your longevity supplements on going and I anticipate some good results however in your situation there is a good possibility the PC is causing some mixed signals going to the liver.
I not saying to stop your TA-65 or VC just take them the old fashion way.
This combined with insufficient insulin being returned to your liver may have just put it on vacation.
On the Glucagon see if your doc will ask for a actual read because a lot of labs just give a yes or no to the < 134PG /mL reference. What I’m anticipating here is a zero or a fractional read.
Keep in mind inactivated insulin by Glucagon returns to the liver and starts the lipid production. Here’s the flow chart I presented at this post for a better understanding.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11538&p=37366&hilit=cholesterol+insulin#top

The c-peptide will let us know how much insulin the pancreas is actually producing if any???
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