Vitamin C, Lab Test Results, and Cholesterol

[jb0615]

I began taking Tower Heart Technology at the end of March '08 after having gotten the results of blood work done the month before. There were significantly negative changes from blood work that was done one year before in February 2007. My doctor determined that I would begin treatment with Zocor. I hate drugs and always have and decided to look for alternative measures. I found several online resources describing the benefits of Vitamin C and the Pauling Therapy. In my search, I found out about Tower Heart Technology and decided to try it. My doctor, of course, was not confident of this and told me to try it for 6 weeks upon which time he would again check my blood.

I began taking 2 scoops of Heart Technology per day at the end of March '08, and upon completion of the first jar I increased the dosage to 3 scoops (divided) per day. In addition, I began supplementation with Polycosanol, COQ10, Lecithin, Omega 3, and equal amounts of Calcium and Magnesium. I went on a diet eliminating bad fats and substituting with good fats, and eliminating all white sugar and white flour. I also eliminated artificial sweeteners and substitute with Stevia. In addition, I have begun a good exercise program.

Below are some of the results of the above referenced blood work:

2/2007 2/12/08 5/16/08
Total Cholesterol 240 311 230
LDL 164 230 162
HDL 46 49 39
Triglycerides 148 161 143
Glucose 109 115 91
Chol. HDL Risk Assessment 5.2 6.3 5.9

On March 8, 2008 I also had a VAP test done. I do not understand some of the numbers and terms used here, but here are the results below:

VAP(TM) Cholesterol Test
Directly Measured Lipid

Total LDL-C Direct 196
Total HDL-C Direct 40
Total VLDL-C Direct 37
Sum Total Cholesterol 273
Triglycerides Direct 217
Total non-HDL-C(LDL+VLDL) 233
Total APOB100 Calc 154

For Clinical judgment in
setting LDL C Goal
LP(a) Cholesterol 2.0
IDL-C 24
Real-LDL-C 170
Sum Total LDL-C 196
Real-LDL Size Pattern B (small dense LDL)

Remnant Lipo (IDL+VLDL3) 44

Sub Class Information
HDL-2 (large, buoyant) 8
HDL-3 (Small, dense) 32
VLDL-3 (remnant lipo) 20


I know this is a rather lengthy post, and for this I apologize. But I would like to know what the experts here think of the total results. I am encouraged because my LDL, which had gone up so dramatically from 2007 to 2008, has dropped 68 points. I am also encouraged because my glucose, blood pressure, pulse, potassium and triglycerides, which were all out of range are now well within range. And I've lose 14 lbs within 3 months and feel so much more energy. I gave my doctor copies of things I had printed off the WWW regarding Tower Heart Technology, and he was very interested. He was floored that my latest blood work was so improved and encouraged me to keep on doing what I am currently doing and go back to see him in 6 months.

However, I am concerned (so is my doctor) because my HDL took such a sharp drop. Should I be concerned about this? And is there something I can do to raise the HDL level, or will continued use of Heart Technology take care of this?

I can tell you that so far I am sold on Heart Tower Technology. From 2007 to 2008 I had tried diet, exercise, vitamin e, plant sterols and other measures that, as you can see, did little good. I attribute most of my success to the Vitamin C Pauling Therapy.

I welcome any suggestions you may have for me, not only regarding the HDL matter, but regarding anything else in my post that you may see where I could use some help. I admit to being relatively new to all this. But I am learning, and I will continue to learn, and hopefully with some advice I will obtain here.

Thank you,
JB0616

[jb0615]

I just looked at my post, and I am sorry about how the first grouping of lab results turned out. I had columns all set up and they disappeared. If this is hard to follow, I'm sorry, and if you'd like, I will try to post again so that it displays properly. Let me know if I need to do this.
Thanks,
JB0615

[Marjorie]

I can't wait to hear what the experts say. I am not new to nutrition, but I am new to this concept. I'm currently taking 2 scoops of Ascorbade I love it, but I need a more economical way to figure this out.

Anyway, I noticed that you are supplementing with calcium. I do know that they will recommend stopping that. It raises your calcium score and contributes to plaque. Dietary calcium such as in greens is fine.

Keep up the good work!

[rizwanuk]

How much Polycosanol, COQ10, Lecithin, Omega 3, Calcium and Magnesium are you taking? Also what forms of calcium and magnesium you take?

[ofonorow]

Thank you for posting. Your results appear "spectacular" to me.

I am encouraged because my LDL, which had gone up so dramatically from 2007 to 2008, has dropped 68 points. I am also encouraged because my glucose, blood pressure, pulse, potassium and triglycerides, which were all out of range are now well within range. And I've lose 14 lbs within 3 months and feel so much more energy. I gave my doctor copies of things I had printed off the WWW regarding Tower Heart Technology, and he was very interested. He was floored that my latest blood work was so improved and encouraged me to keep on doing what I am currently doing and go back to see him in 6 months.

However, I am concerned (so is my doctor) because my HDL took such a sharp drop. Should I be concerned about this? And is there something I can do to raise the HDL level, or will continued use of Heart Technology take care of this?

I personally don't put much stock in the HDL number, but I am very encourage by the Lp(a) number of 2 ! That is lower than my Lp(a). You might consider that your HDL was too high previously. I don't buy the LDL/HDL ratio since ordinary LDL is quite healthy for you. So I have no real problem with higher LDL (particularly with that low Lp(a) even if it worsens the ratio.

I will say that you are still a bit high in total cholesterol. This indicates that you could be taking even more vitamin C in addition to the 3-6 grams you are getting in the Heart Technology. Are you reaching bowel tolerance (Gas/diarrhea?) Most people find that their cholesterol will settle at 180 mg/dl when they are getting optimal vitamin C over time.

Please keep us informed.

[jb0615]

Thank you for your replies.

Marjorie, I am honestly not sure what to do about the calcium. I have been taking calcium citrate 630 mg. per day (advice from my gynecologist to avoid osteoporosis), and magnesium 400 mg. per day. I was advised that magnesium needs calcium to be effective, and in the proportions I am taking. If this is a misconception, and if I should be doing something different, I hope someone here will advise me.

I am also taking COQ10, 100 mg. per day, Policosanol, 20 mg. per day, Lecithin, 1360 mg. per day, and Omega 3 1000 mg. per day.


Mr. Fonorow, I appreciate and thank you for your comments. I did not know how to read most of the vap testing. I don't even know what what the LP(a) numbers mean, sorry to say. I am anxious to learn, however.

I am curious, however, if my LP(a) and HDL are ok, and my LDL is not too high, how does my total cholesterol end up being on the high side? I reached bowel tolerance when I went to 3 scoops a day, but after being on it for about 2 weeks, I no longer have the evidences of bowel tolerance (for which I'm a bit thankful . That being the case, roughly how much more vitamin C would you recommend I take?

One last question, I am wondering if I should also be supplementing with a multivitamin, and if so, what should I be looking for in a multivitamin? I definitely don't want to take anything that will conflict with what I am doing. For that reason I stopped taking the multivitamin I had been taking for the past few years, and that was Enzymatic Therapy for women over 45.

Thank you,
JB0615

[ofonorow]

Yes, Pauling recommended a multi-vitamin/multi-mineral and it provides good insurance as otherwise your diet must be varied and fresh enough to provide the 50+ substances required for life. I haven't studied formulas for some time, but in the past we recommended LIFE FORCE from Source Naturals because this product has a large number of great ingredients, including CoQ10, but was relatively low on the nutrients that Heart Technology is quite high in, such as C, E and A.

If you are concerned about the possibility of osteoporosis, supplemental calcium is probably not as important as natural progesterone, vitamin K, vitamin D and vitamin A. You are getting A in Heart Technology, you can get vitamin D from 20 minutes of sun exposure, but the D3 form is a good idea to supplement. High doses of vitamin K are a treatment for osteoporosis in Japan, according to Life Extension, as a function of vitamin K is to regulate calcium out of soft tissue and into bones. The books by John Lee, MD, such as WHAT YOUR DOCTOR MAY NOT TELL YOU ABOUT MENAPAUSE explains why woman should be using natural progesterone patches, to balance estrogens, especially later in life. Vitamin C is very important for maintaining bone strength as well.

Your cholesterol isn't bad, but we know from Ginter that most humans normalize to 180 mg/dl with optimal vitamin C. Your 40 points may be reacting to dental work, for all I know, but it does indicate that you might require more vitamin C. So 3 scoops (9000) mg causes diarrhea, right? Is that per day, but 2 scoops (6000 mg vitamin C) is okay now? If you take your 2 scoops twice per day or every 12 hours, then you might consider adding a 500 mg ascorbic acid pill every 4 hours between the scoops. This isn't a requirement, it is simply a method of keeping your blood concentrations at a high level, and I think adding this vitamin C to your protocol would lower your total cholesterol.

The only number I am interested in the VAP is the Lp(a). In the VAP world, less than 10 is good, and your number is 2. So you continue the fine tradition of very low Lp(a) in people who are taking the Tower products. What I don't yet know for sure is whether this is a result of the proline or the vitamin A.

[jb0615]

Thank you for the multi-vitamin recommendation. Source Naturals Life Source looks to be very good. I noticed that it contains only 20 mg. of COQ10 while I am taking 100 mg of COQ10 currently. Should I continue to take my 100 mg. of COQ10 daily while I supplement with Life Source?

I am also concerned about eliminating the calcium supplement I am on because I take 400 mg. of magnesium per day, and magnesium needs to be in proportion to the calcium taken, and ideally should be 2/3 of one's calcium intake. I was recommended to take magnesium because of allergies, headaches, etc. But in reading I have also found that magnesium prevents calcification in the heart valves and arteries. Wouldn't that counteract whatever calcification might be caused by the additional calcium supplementation? See, I'm willing to reduce the calcium intake, but I am not so sure I should reduce the magnesium because of the benefits I've received from it. And I want to be sure that my magnesium is in the proper proportion and balance.

I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear on this, but I take 3 scoops of Heart Tower per day, one in the morning, one before dinner and one at bedtime. So I figured that was about 4,500 mg. of Vit. C. per day.

Also, the VAP test which indicates my lp(a) was done on March 8 which was over 2 weeks before I started taking the Vitamin C. Maybe if my lp(a) was low then and I had a HDL of 49, maybe that's why my HDL came down so much. For all I know, maybe my lp(a) is down to 1 or 0 now. I suppose that's good?!

Thank you,
JB0615

[rizwanuk]

Life force multivitamin ha unbalanced vitamin E (only Alpha Tocopheryl) it also has iron which is not a good idea if you are a male. I much prefer Orthocore by AOR. Though it is low on Vitamin C which should be seperately taken.

You should increase your Omega 3 consumption from 1000mg to 6000 mg. This is assuming the 1000 mg you take has about 180mg EPA and 120 DHA.

[jb0615]

I noticed that Life Source has a multi vitamin that contains no iron. The Orthocore looks good, but it also looks very expensive.

Yes, my EPA and DHA are the quantities you mentioned. I will look into taking more. Thank you for the information.

I am really concerned about the calcium/magnesium ratio and what I need to be doing about the magnesium supplementation if I eliminate the supplemented calcium.

Thank you,
JB0615

[traderrob]

Why is cholesterol even a major consideration? Every indication is it's not a factor in heart disease and low levels of it are far more harmful to our health. Has anyone read "The Great Cholesterol Con by Malcolm Kendrick?

[Marjorie]

I understand your concern over calcium/magnesium ratio. That has been beat into our heads for years. Then there comes a time when everyone is just parroting what they heard. I will tell you I never supplemented calcium because it always disagreed with me. You can have dairy products and leafy greens, or even a "green drink" which probably has a lot of organic calcium. But, the truth is all the sources that told us to supplement inorganic calcium were wrong. It won't be hard on you when you realize you feel great and so does everyone else on this therapy without the calcium supps. You might want to ask if anyone has reported increased osteoporosis on this protocol to ease your mind. I am not a fan of sardines, but I think people eat their skeletons along with the fish--lots of calcium and also fish oil. The Japanese don't supplement calcium and osteoporosis is rare.

But, Magnesium is a different story. You definitely should supplement that. That is one of the first things they give a heart patient. I just bought a big gallon jug of liquid magnesium. It's called Ancient Minerals Magnesium. It comes from an ancient sea bed, I think. It is supposed to be the best source around. You rub it into your skin. Magnesium is actually absorbed better transdermally than any other way.

I was going to mention another sup. we need but, I think I am supposed to put that somewhere else. So, I hope this helps.

[jb0615]

Thank you, Marjorie for this information. I must confess that I have one little sin that some here will take me to task over. I am addicted to Starbucks. I buy my own beans and have a Barista machine and make lattes at home. I have a 20 oz. 'healthy' latte each day, made with 16 oz. skim milk, 3 to 3 1/2 oz. espresso and organic syrup. Any additional sweetening I need I get from adding Stevia. Between that and the milk I put in my cereal, plus all the veggies I'm eating, I probably get enough calcium.

And I guess all multi-vitamins contain some calcium, so I would hope I am getting enough. Thanks to you and the others who have commented about the calcium issue. I will cut that from my lineup and see how I do. I will stay with the magnesium citrate I am on. If anyone thinks I need to adjust the dose please let me know. I take 400 mg. per day.

No thanks, to the sardines that is, that will never happen, LOL! And if you have any other ideas about other supplementation, Marjorie, would you please PM me? Thanks!

Traderrob, I know what you are saying, and I am sure you are right to a certain extent. But from what I have read here and other places, it is still not good to have too high cholesterol. And mine went up from 230 to 311 in one year, which was a big alert. My doctor, besides thinking it might be hereditary, also thought it was part of the metabolic syndrome and was in part due to the increased glucose I also had, among other things that were going on with my blood work that are now back to normal. From what I have read here, glucose can cause cholesterol to increase. My glucose is down within normal ranges now, and my cholesterol is going down also. I know I don't want my cholesterol to go too low. If it goes below the 180 that Mr. Fonorow referred to, I will definitely address that.

Thanks,
JB0615

[traderrob]

Agreed. My Dr. put me on Lipitor and my cholesterol went to 70 and I promptly went off it immediately without his consent. My pre-med total cholesterol was 196. Being that cholesterol is a marker and high cholesterol is rather than a causative factor more of an indication that other problems exist.

I am also on mag citate 450mg. Magnesium oxide is worthless and should be avoided.

[jb0615]

I agree. I think I had major problems looming with the spike my cholesterol took, plus other things were way off with my blood. Everything is starting to return to normal. I thank Heart Tower Technology, healthier eating, and the many little lifestyle changes I needed to make. One is never to old to begin doing the right things!

The magnesium I take is Magnesium Citrate.