I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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396driver

I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#1  Post by 396driver » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:52 pm

This is my first post, but I have been reading this great site for quite awhile. Well, I should have done more C, but would usually forget after the morning dose.

Here's what I've been taking daily (for approx 1 year):
C 3G - sometimes up to 6G and 9G, but mostly 3G
Lysine 2G - sometimes up to 4G and 6G, but mostly 2G
proline 500 mg - sometimes up to 1G and 1.5G, but mostly 2
Krill oil 1200mg
D3 4000IU
E 400IU

I broke my toe 5 days before they took blood for surgery - the results below are from this blood test.
I read that inflammation causes cholesterol to rise; i wonder if the broken toe elevated the cholesterol - just a thought.

Here's my blood test results (Dr gave me Crestor samples and should see him in 6 weeks):
VLDL, Calc 28
Homocysteine Cardiovascular 19.9 H (abnormal)
Lipoprotein[a] 41 - I requested this test - please don't say good doctor :)
Folate - 21.4
Vitamin A - 46
Vitamin B12 - 354
Chemistry - All in range
Cholesterol - 299
Cholesterol HDL - 42
Cholesterol / HDL ratio - 7.12
triglycerides - 138
LDL - 229
Vitamin D 25-OH - 64.5
Vitamin E (alpha - tocopherol) 18.6
Vitamin E (gamma - tocopherol) <1.0

Cholesterol runs high in my family. I'm afraid if I don't take the Crestor from the doctor, then he'll put it in my record, then if i have a heart attack, the insurance won't cover - I'm likely being being paranoid. I doubt the crestor will make it to my mouth, but I wanted to get some advise from this forum before making a decision. Does it seem I can correct with higher dosage , and is there anything else I should add to my supplement regiment based on the numbers above?

Thanks ahead of time for any replies.

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Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#2  Post by Lemonaid » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:08 pm

I'm afraid if I don't take the Crestor from the doctor, then he'll put it in my record, then if i have a heart attack, the insurance won't cover

Who has heard of this?

Seams illegal because it could be gamed and would be gamed.
Last edited by Lemonaid on Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:16 am

I agree, I think you need to check out your insurance concern with the insurance company. Also, if you follow our posting you know that various public watchdog groups believe Crestor is the worst statin, in terms of potential adverse side effects. http://www.worstpills.org/public/crestor.cfm We can provide quite a bit of material to present to your doctor about Crestor, including material from several class action lawsuit sites. Also you might be interested in new warnings: http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/crestor/warning.html We don't believe in or recommend statins at all for any purpose, but Crestor would be last on our list. This is our opinion and not medical advice. You need to bring this info to your doctor who may not be aware of it, but because of the law of community standard of medical practice, as long as the doctor is doing what all other doctors are doing, he is generally protected - even if he is killing people. The way this can be changed, is in court, by showing a preponderance of evidence exists against the current standard of practice. That is why we have long said it will take many elder or retired lawyers with heart disease to change the standard of practice in cardiology through the courrts.

Also the units above are very important. Your cholesterol looks like mg/dl and 229 tells me that you need more vitamin C, perhaps 15000 to 20000 mg daily.

The Lp(a) number is either scary - (if mg/dl), or very good (if nmol/l)

Assuming the worst, I would increase vitamin C, and if tolerance is an issue, consider adding Lypo-C daily (1 or 2 packets). I would also increase lysine to 5000 mg daily, and include a good multi.
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396driver

Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#4  Post by 396driver » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:12 am

My plan was NOT taking Crestor, then telling the doctor that I had joint pain and headaches due to Crestor intake, and so i had stopped taking it. It's not really lying because typically i get the side effects from pharms; i guess I'm just lucky that way. But I will be prepared with literature if he insists on forcing the statin issue, although i wonder why he's never read this stuff - but that's another topic.

The Lp(a) number is either scary - (if mg/dl), or very good (if nmol/l)


The LPa reading was mg/dL; so i guess that means scary. I will increase the C TODAY; I don't seem to have a stomach problem with it, but never took at the higher quantity. I'll take it to bowel tolerance as your site recommends. I'll increase lysine to 5000 (is that enough in comparison to C ratio?); i never have taken a multi, I'll start that too. hmmm... getting quickly to the bathroom on crutches :)

I actually feel really healthy; and yesterday the doc said my toe (surgery) was healing really fast. For about a year, I was doing (2) 1 hr power walks a week at lunch. Martial arts 3x a week. basketball on some saturdays, and working out 1 day a week in the gym with weights. I just have to correct this damn cholesterol issue; i feel like a ticking time bomb.

Oh yea, I also take food grade diotamacious earth (DE) 1 tbs before bed. It's mostly silica based; it has near eliminated arthritis pain, cleans the colon, reduces puffiness and black rings around the eyes, softer skin, nails and hair grow faster. But I take it because silica is supposed to be better than taking calcium alone (a precursor to calcium) for bones, and it supposedly removes heavy metals from the body - they state it also lowers cholesterol; before supplements, DE lowered my cholesterol about 50 points (at one point was 350). Anyone on this forum familiar with DE (not the kind that filters pools)?

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Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#5  Post by Ralph Lotz » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:54 pm

Well-designed studies have found that niacin lowers LDL cholesterol by approximately 10%, lowers triglycerides by 25%, and raises "good" HDL cholesterol by 15% to 30%.

Niacin (nicotinic acid) is included in the Rath/Pauling Patent to lower Lp(a).

Eliminating sucrose and fructose from the diet dramatically lowered cholesterol in Winitz's study by over 31%:

"The most interesting finding apropos of what we are
discussing now is that after just a few weeks on the
Winitz diet the convicts' serum cholesterol dropped from
an average of 220 to an average of only 150. How was it
that this Winitz diet so effectively and naturally lowered
cholesterol levels? As it turned out the sole source of
carbohydrate in the Winitz diet was pure glucose."

http://www.royalrife.com/0898.html
"Unless we put medical freedom into the constitution...medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship..force people who wish doctors and treatment of their own choice to submit to only what..dictating outfit offers." Dr. Benjamin Rush

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Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#6  Post by Lemonaid » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:23 pm

i never have taken a multi, I'll start that too


That'd be the first thing I would do in your shoes. You may very well be deficient in a nutrient / co-factor.

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Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#7  Post by ofonorow » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:20 am

40 mg/dl Lp(a) is scary - if accurate. A few years back, the FDA approved "calculating" Lp(a) - rather than measuring it - after all, I can hear these bureaucrats say, "there are no drugs to lower Lp(a) anyway" ... so now a very large well known lab apparently calculates it. If your test was from that lab, it may not mean as much as say if Berkeley Labs or Atherotech had measured your Lp(a) properly. (PM me for the name of the large blood testing lab that apparently calculates rather than measures.)

In any event - if you have high Lp(a), in my opinion you should be taking Pauling's advice, taking Lp(a) binding inhibitors to make the Lp(a) less "sticky." The primary Lp(a) binding inhibitors are vitamin C, lysine (and proline if you don't have a recent bypass).

As I tried to explain, why should your doctor read something that contradicts standard practice? If he strays from the "party line" he becomes liable. He leaves it to the medical journals to keep him informed (and check out who pays for these journals - the advertisements.)

5000-6000 mg lysine is a good upper limit, and the ratio with vitamin C does not have to be maintained past 5000 mg.
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396driver

Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#8  Post by 396driver » Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:04 pm

Thanks very much for the great information (from everyone).

Well, I do use PM at work, but it is local to the company intranet; embarrassingly i don't know how to PM you. But the name of the lab that tested the LP(a) is Specialty Laboratories at Valencia CA.
I am a bit worried about my test results more than usual. I'm taking the C (starting at 15G through out day daily - get to 20G in a few days daily dose - so far no bowel issue), lysine, and proline as recommended. Although I'm taking the Lysine 2G a dose 3x daily. And the proline 500 MG 3x daily. But I'm really bad about remembering on the hour C doses (yes, I know it will save my life, but in the past I can have the bottle of water and c right next to me all day and still forget; its pathetic) - can I gang up the doses in 3, 4 or 5x daily? Even today I missed a few doses and took a larger quantity when remembered. I've also continued with other supplements stated on various posts of this post chain. Not yet gone to store for multi, but I will very soon; I can't drive yet with repaired toe. Is there a type of multi I should gravitate towards?

I recently read on this forum that Vitamin K-2 100 mcg reduces calcification in arteries. Is LPa plaque also called calcification, and should I take K-2?

I'm 48 years old. I've never yet had any heart related medical issues. Rarely sick, slim, and fit - very low level of body fat. And exercising over the past year I've reduce sitting heart beat from around high 80 to 90ish down to consistent 60s and low 70s. Although can't exercise anymore until bandages come off next week, then hit the pool.

My doctor doesn't really like to discuss anything; I'm always polite and humble with what little knowledge I have about this stuff. I'm not happy with him - looking for a new doctor (again). I guess that's why I'd rather just tell him it gives me headaches and joint pain and I stopped; seems easier than to argue with the...

I can never understand doctors literally ordering me to do something as if they are an authority figure in my world (maybe they are and I don't just realize it).

396driver

Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#9  Post by 396driver » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:32 pm

Ralph Lotz wrote:Well-designed studies have found that niacin lowers LDL cholesterol by approximately 10%, lowers triglycerides by 25%, and raises "good" HDL cholesterol by 15% to 30%.

Niacin (nicotinic acid) is included in the Rath/Pauling Patent to lower Lp(a).


Is niacin safe and is there a recommended dosage?

396driver

Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#10  Post by 396driver » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:34 pm

ok, sorry for three posts in a row, but I just realized where the PM button. Sorry Owen, next time I'll know how to PM.

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Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#11  Post by Ralph Lotz » Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:56 pm

Is niacin safe and is there a recommended dosage?


Niacin causes flushing which some find uncomfortable. Taking it with food reduces the flushing, and it should go away as your body adjusts to it.
Try 500 mg with each meal, then increase to 1,000 mg per meal.

Beware of taking niacin with statin drugs. In my opinion statins should be banned.
"Unless we put medical freedom into the constitution...medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship..force people who wish doctors and treatment of their own choice to submit to only what..dictating outfit offers." Dr. Benjamin Rush

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Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#12  Post by sharonstar » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:07 am

Is there a preferred form of niacin such as regular B3, Niaspan, Slo-Niacin or others? As I recall the last time I tried using niacin my pulse rate went up and I took it too close to when I took blood pressure medication and I got quite dizzy as I imagine the blood pressure was lowered. It also makes my headaches worse but I would still prefer these side effects to the side effects of statins. When I took the simvastatin occasionally I would feel like I was in the twilight zone. Not a good feeling to have. If the flushing diminishes over time, will the elevated pulse rate, etc. normalize as well? Just wondering if anyone else has this.

Sharon

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Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#13  Post by ofonorow » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:19 am

I'm taking the C (starting at 15G through out day daily - get to 20G in a few days daily dose - so far no bowel issue)


Well this tells you (us) something! Please review http://orthomed.com/titrate.htm if you haven't already. When you determine your bowel tolerance - let us know, there may be something else going on too.

So vitamin C for you is the primary nutrient, and I used to take my 9000 mg twice daily. It sounds like you may be taking much more.

Yes, vitamin K2 is an excellent idea, whether or not you have evidence of calcification - say from one of these heart scans that see mostly calcium. So no, technically Lp(a) plaque is not the same as calcified plaque, at least not for a long time. However, most people with heart disease probably have hard arteries (calcified) and K2 has just been shown to reduce/prevent cancer too!

Well niacin, in its various form is vitamin B3 - and taking it is a really good idea, although I believe the experts recommend one form over the other to avoid rapid heart beats and the niacin "flush." It is interesting that according to Atherotech, both Niacin and Vitamin C have been clinically shown to reduce Lp(a) by about the same amount.
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Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#14  Post by sharonstar » Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:50 am

I took non flush niacin as inositol hexanicotinate last year at 3000 mg daily for s few months at the recommendation of an alternative doctor and it did nothing for the LDL and may have raised the HDL slightly. That was after going off the simvastatin. My cardiologist wants me to take a statin because of the family history of heart disease. It's really sad that they(some cardiologist) don't want you as a patient unless you agree to take the statin. I've taken the vitamin c and lysine for 4 years and the cardiac cath in January was ok so I'm hoping I won't need the cardiologist in the future.

Sharon

396driver

Re: I didn't do well on supplements (yet) - Dr pushing Crestor

Post Number:#15  Post by 396driver » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:44 pm

ofonorow wrote:
I'm taking the C (starting at 15G through out day daily - get to 20G in a few days daily dose - so far no bowel issue)


Well this tells you (us) something! Please review http://orthomed.com/titrate.htm if you haven't already. When you determine your bowel tolerance - let us know, there may be something else going on too.

So vitamin C for you is the primary nutrient, and I used to take my 9000 mg twice daily. It sounds like you may be taking much more.

Yes, vitamin K2 is an excellent idea, whether or not you have evidence of calcification - say from one of these heart scans that see mostly calcium. So no, technically Lp(a) plaque is not the same as calcified plaque, at least not for a long time. However, most people with heart disease probably have hard arteries (calcified) and K2 has just been shown to reduce/prevent cancer too!

Well niacin, in its various form is vitamin B3 - and taking it is a really good idea, although I believe the experts recommend one form over the other to avoid rapid heart beats and the niacin "flush." It is interesting that according to Atherotech, both Niacin and Vitamin C have been clinically shown to reduce Lp(a) by about the same amount.


I'm sorry; I think I've confused the issue. I was only consistently taking approx 3G a dose 1x daily (beginning of post also stated other supplements taking daily), but due to your recommendation, as of a couple of days ago, I'm up to 15 G daily (that's currently approx 5 G a dose 3x daily) - workings towards 20 G a day soon. I'm beginning to get some loose on stool on 5 G a dose or 15 G a day, so not sure how much more per dose I'll be able to tolerate, but i'll keep trying more to see if it is a consistent max.

I picked up some K2 today; it says K2 as MK-7 derived from Natto. I also picked up Nattokinase http://www.naturalnews.com/022681.html. Not sure which to take and which to return.


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