vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

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gmdodaro
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vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#1  Post by gmdodaro » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:21 pm

I have taken large doses of ascorbic acid, generally 10-15 grams per day, for more than thirty years, yet I have heart disease. My coronary calcium scan in January 2018 hit 840. The progression has been roughly 100 points per year since 2011. I'm 69 years old and, to all appearances, in good health. My only symptoms of heart disease have been atrial fibrillation at intervals controlled by magnesium and iodine. I lift weights and run six days per week.

It's been a year or more since I participated in this forum. In the past few months I've learned a few things that might interest others. After the discouraging coronary calcium scan last January, one of my doctors told me about another patient of his, like me, exercising, fit, good BMI, who dramatically reduced his coronary calcium score by changing to a vegetarian diet. I read a bit of Drs Esselstyn, McDougal, and the China Study, and I decided to give it a go.

I'm still working full time as a technical writer and I'm online many hours every day. I'm a dues paying member of the Cureality forum of Dr. Davis, author of Wheat Belly, UnDoctored. His perspective runs counter to Esselstyn and McDougal, putting it mildly, so I inquired about the risks of a vegan diet. Not surprisingly he advised against it. In the discussion I raised the issue of iodine supplementation, because one of the theories I'm following relates hypothyroidism to heart disease. Dr. Davis advised me that the 10-15 mg of iodine/potassium iodide I had been taking for several years was likely a toxic dose. I wasn't willing to forego my experiment with a vegan diet, but I did take his advice to stop taking iodine, for a few months anyway. I continued taking cod liver oil for EPA, DHA, and vitamin D.

A bit more than a month went by, and in early March I had an episode of atrial fibrillation that lasted 10-12 hours. I had thought this was a thing of the past since I began magnesium supplementation of about 1 gram per day. A few days later prostate blocked my urethra, and I ended up in the ER and catheterized for a week. This was another problem that I thought was solved. I had not been through this since 2014. In the following three weeks there were more episodes of atrial fibrillation, and only a week after getting the catheter removed, my prostate blocked again. During another trip to the ER, the stress set off atrial fibrillation. For three weeks I had atrial fibrillation 3-4 times per week for 12-20 hours per episode. I also started having migraine headaches, another problem I thought was behind me. I couldn't run without starting atrial fibrillation. I lost ten pounds.

Trying find a reason for these sudden relapses, I discovered, in one of Dr. Davis's references, a note that iodine deficiency is likely on a vegetarian diet. I thought this along with my decision to stop the 10-15 mg iodine daily dose I had been on for about three years, could be the problem. I reread Dr. Brownstein on the subject of iodine. He's has had thousands of patients on iodine doses of 50 mg per day without toxic effects. I restarted iodine supplementation, Lugols 2% solution, and increased the dosage to 50-60 mg per day. Things improved in a few days. Two weeks later I was running again. Now, two months later, I am stronger and feeling better than I have in years.

I credit the iodine for the rapid recovery, but what of the vegan diet? It is surprising how easy it was for me to stop eating animal products. I was an omnivore all my life, careful about food, supplementing where I thought it would help, but in five months of vegan diet, I haven't felt any ill effects or cravings. The benefits are astonishing!

My recent test results are the best in ten years. The vegetarian diet, after resumed iodine supplementation, improved many previously disturbing numbers. As you can see following, in a couple of months my cholesterol went down from 228 to 139, plaque number, LP-PLA2 dropped from high risk 117 to 75. Lp(a) down from 35 to 12. LDL particle number: 1561 -> 840. LDL: 134 -> 70.

At the bottom of this may be a TMAO reduction from 32.1 -> 5.7 recommended range: < 6.2 TMAO is a measure only available from Cleveland Heart Lab. It reflects effects of animal based products toxic to arterial health. A gut bacteria produces an enzyme that the liver converts to TMAO.

January 5:
Total cholesterol: 228
HDL: 80 mg/dL
HDL particle number 34.5
LDL particle number: 1561
LDL cholesterol 134
Lp-PLA2: 117.
Lp(a) 35
Triglicerides: 69
TSH: 7.75
T3 total: 71
T3 free: 2.1

April 2:
Total cholesterol: 139
HDL: 56 mg/dL
HDL particle number 33
LDL particle number 840
LDL cholesterol: 70
Lp-PLA2: 75
Lp(a): 12
Triglicerides: 63
TSH: .006
T3 total: 102
T3 free: 3.6

When my cardiologist saw these numbers, he was impressed, said, "Well, it looks like you've solved it. Call me if you need me." I'm going to wait a few more months for another coronary calcium scan, which will be conclusive, one way or another.
Last edited by gmdodaro on Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#2  Post by pamojja » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:42 pm

gmdodaro wrote:The vegetarian diet, after resumed iodine supplementation, improved many previously disturbing numbers.


Thanks for sharing your interesting experience of turning vegetarian and adding iodine back in. Also been a member many years ago when it still was called TrackYourPlaque.

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#3  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:22 am

Astonishing. Yes, thanks for sharing.

Two variables, right? Iodine and a vege diet, you say you began the vege diet after the January labs. Just focusing on the TSH numbers, looks like your thyroid became happy.

Also, in our experience, the high calcium score can be reversed by taking vitamin K. See: http://www.vitaminc.foundation/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11891#p39764
Owen R. Fonorow, Follow #OWENRFONOROW at twitter

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#4  Post by gmdodaro » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:22 am

Thanks, Owen. Yes, I started the vegan diet in January after another discouraging coronary calcium scan. I stopped the iodine for a month, then resumed at 50-60 mg/day after the a-fib and prostate flare-ups.

I've been trying to get the thyroid numbers, T3 T4, up for years. Never have felt like I was hypothyroid, exercising and active, but reading Brownstein, I found reason to think the tests don't necessarily measure the activity of T3 in the cells.

It could be that the iodine, as well as the vegan diet, has something to do with the dramatic drop in the various cholesterol numbers. I've been taking large doses of vitamin K for several years. I hope the reduction in Lp(a) and LP-PLA2 indicates improvement in whatever is causing the coronary calcium.

I've started reading about your recent ordeals. Fighting the system while dealing with serious health issues doesn't sound pleasant.

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#5  Post by Frodo » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:44 pm

gmdodaro
It‘s very interesting.
What did you eat before you started vegetarian diet?
Have you ever measured your thyroid antibodies (TPO-AB/TG-AB)?
Do you take other nutrients in addition to the vegetarian diet?

My TSH was always increased. But also my antibodies. The doctors said, it‘s hashimoto‘s, don‘t take Iodine. Despite for that. I took Iodine (LL) after I read Brownstein, Farrow, Derry and Hoffmann. And since I take it, my antibodies drop down. Perhaps also high dose of vitamin C are involved.

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#6  Post by gmdodaro » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:13 pm

Frodo,
I was eating what I thought was a healthy diet that included vegetables, fruits, and enough meat to get the fats necessary to absorb minerals and vitamins. I read the Vitamin K Calcium Paradox, several books that recommended low-carb diets, and some research claims that high cholesterol is actually healthy and that people with high cholesterol live longer. I ate meat, fish, eggs, dairy products, grass-fed when possible and affordable. But the coronary calcium continued to rise.

I take a lot of supplements: Cod liver oil, vitamin K, E, C, CoQ10, curcumin, lysine, proline, magnesium 500-800 mg/day. The list could be longer. I stopped taking Acetyl L Carnitine because that is the substance in meat that causes increase in TMAO. If you are a meat eater, it would be worth getting tested by the Cleveland Heart Lab for TMAO, which correlates with both heart disease and cancer. I also recommend The China Study, by T. Colin Campbell. It is regularly attacked by paleo advocates. I read it five years ago. Now I wish I'd tried its recommendations sooner.

I've never taken anything with such a dramatic effect as the recent iodine cure. Brownstein, as you know, says iodine is needed even for hyperthyroid, Grave's, and Hashimoto's. The closest comparison to the effect of iodine was when I started large doses of ascorbic acid thirty five years ago, and I stopped getting colds and flu several times a year.

The best results from my perspective are the reductions in Lp(a) and LP-PLA2. Doctors have generally said that Lp(a) is hereditary. LP-PLA2 is an indicator of fragile atherosclerotic plaque, the kind that breaks and causes heart attacks and strokes.
I had thyroid antibodies tested and the results showed no problems.
Last edited by gmdodaro on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#7  Post by gmdodaro » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:04 pm

One thing I forgot to mention: when supplementing with iodine at the dosages I am now, it's important to also supplement with selenium 200-400 mcg per day.

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#8  Post by ChuckArbogast » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:27 am

gmdodaro wrote:One thing I forgot to mention: when supplementing with iodine at the dosages I am now, it's important to also supplement with selenium 200-400 mcg per day.

What brand of iodine do you use and at what dosages?

Thanks,
Chuck

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#9  Post by Frodo » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:27 am

gmdodaro
I know many blood values (like many others in the forum too). More than many doctors. And I‘ve them measured regularly. That‘s very expensive, you know. But I didn‘t know LP-PLA2 before. How did you come up with that? I read so much, but nothing about LP-LPA2.

Chuck
I take Lugolsche Lösung (LL), in German. To achieve 50 mg I would prefer Iodoral. Next month I‘ll start the Iodine saturation test.

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#10  Post by Frodo » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:28 am

gmdodaro
I found LP-PLA2 and the study at lancet. All laboratories offer the measurement. Cost about 47 €. And what luck! Good BIG Pharma found a way to block LP-PLA2. Big business is waiting. What do you think, who financed the study?

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#11  Post by gmdodaro » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:36 pm

ChuckArbogast,
I take iodine as Lugol's solution 2%. I used to take Iodoral 12.5 mg tablets. Several years ago after reading Brownstein's book about iodine, I started taking one tablet and then, after a while, two tablets for a total of 25 mg/day. My T3 jumped to as high as 7. A doctor told me that was too high so I backed off or stopped for a while. When I resumed Iodoral at 12.5 mg/day, my thyroid numbers wouldn't budge. My wife had the same experience with Iodoral. We began to wonder if it is the same product now as four years ago. It looks paler than the amber/orange color I remembered.

So I started taking Lugol's 2% solution. For a couple of years I took about 15mg/day. Then during the recent case related above I quit and restarted a much higher dosage: 50-65mg/day. I've been on that for two months. Lugol's is considerably cheaper than Iodorol.

Frodo,
I recommend the Cleveland Heart Lab tests: http://www.clevelandheartlab.com/. Most doctors can order these tests, including the LP-PLA2.

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#12  Post by ChuckArbogast » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:46 am

gmdodaro wrote:ChuckArbogast,
I take iodine as Lugol's solution 2%. I used to take Iodoral 12.5 mg tablets. Several years ago after reading Brownstein's book about iodine, I started taking one tablet and then, after a while, two tablets for a total of 25 mg/day. My T3 jumped to as high as 7. A doctor told me that was too high so I backed off or stopped for a while. When I resumed Iodoral at 12.5 mg/day, my thyroid numbers wouldn't budge. My wife had the same experience with Iodoral. We began to wonder if it is the same product now as four years ago. It looks paler than the amber/orange color I remembered.

So I started taking Lugol's 2% solution. For a couple of years I took about 15mg/day. Then during the recent case related above I quit and restarted a much higher dosage: 50-65mg/day. I've been on that for two months. Lugol's is considerably cheaper than Iodorol.


gmdodaro,
Thanks so much for the information. It seems however there there are a few different companies selling "Lugol" products. There is one at Lugol.com, which claims to be better than the other iodine options, including J. Crows's Lugol's solution, which claims to be the "Original" Luguol's solution. So, confused what you use, what is better, if any.

Also, it seems like most of the iodine supplements are liquid, but not all, if you are using the liquid solution, how do you take it? With or without other food or away from food? Are there any other supplements that shouldn't be taken with it?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks,
Chuck

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#13  Post by Frodo » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:18 am

Chuck
I have Lugol‘s Solution 2% from the pharmacy. It is of course liquid. Cost about 10€/100ml. Like Brownstein, Farrow and others recommend it, I drip it into a glass of water. 1 drop only = ~2,50 mg Iodine (considering to my hashimoto‘s). My wife and my son take 2 drops daily. All without any problem.

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#14  Post by gmdodaro » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:49 am

I have been taking Crow's 2% Lugol's, like Frodo says, a few drops in a glass of water or juice. I'm taking about 10 drops, three times per day, after meals. Start at lower dosage, because iodine detoxes heavy metals; it can make you feel sick, like a Herxheimer reaction. It wasn't a problem for me.

Another thing that could be significant: we have a water distiller, and use distilled water for all cooking and drinking. But, it's important to supplement with minerals, if you use distilled water. This is the mineral supplement we use: https://www.rnareset.com/collections/fr ... 3899699143

Without the minerals distilled water can leach minerals out of the body. We were getting leg cramps and didn't know why. We started the mineral supplements and the cramps stopped.

There is a magnesium product from that source too, but it gets expensive, so we mainly use magnesium glycinate: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson ... grams-pwdr
I take 800-1000 mg/day, but start slowly to bowel tolerance.

It's worth reading The Magnesium Miracle, by Carolyn Dean. She owns that mineral source as above.

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Re: vitamin C, iodine, vegetarian diet

Post Number:#15  Post by pamojja » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:26 am

ChuckArbogast wrote:, how do you take it? With or without other food or away from food? Are there any other supplements that shouldn't be taken with it?


Vitamin C immediately oxidizes iodine to iodide. So don't take together.


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